Tire and Wheel Protection Plan advice
05-31-22, 06:58 AM
#136
Lead Lap
Well these complaints come in under the "gotcha" clause... Lots of surprises that no one would suspect... Good work Nitro... 
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05-31-22, 07:07 AM
#137
Instructor
Thread Starter
The logic is that most folks intuitively understand the expected cost of these long-term repairs will be less than, or equal to, the extended warranty. So by pocketing the cash, they retain the free option of potentially having to never spend it in the first place.
And that is before one considers all the aforementioned reasons why many policyholders get screwed.
When the original iPhones came out, they had awesome (free) warranties. A short time after that, I believe they started charging $100 for the policy. Most knew that was a really great deal for full-replacement of an iPhone. And most knew that Apple was very good about replacing all phones as a means of resolution. Apple was not in the business then of refurbishing or repairing your phone.
Fast forward to today, the new iPhone insurance polices are quite expensive, don't even cover water damage, and most iPhones have considerable water waterproofing built in already.
You can see where I'm going with this.
And that is before one considers all the aforementioned reasons why many policyholders get screwed.
When the original iPhones came out, they had awesome (free) warranties. A short time after that, I believe they started charging $100 for the policy. Most knew that was a really great deal for full-replacement of an iPhone. And most knew that Apple was very good about replacing all phones as a means of resolution. Apple was not in the business then of refurbishing or repairing your phone.
Fast forward to today, the new iPhone insurance polices are quite expensive, don't even cover water damage, and most iPhones have considerable water waterproofing built in already.
You can see where I'm going with this.
There are so many components in the ES350 that nobody can forecast what will break and what will not break and how much that it will cost for repairs and whether it will cost less than the extended warranty to do repairs. They also cannot predict the frequency of different repairs that might be needed to be done to the vehicle once the existing warranty expires. How can they predict the unknown? They can’t predict what will or will not happen. They’re only assuming that there will be no repairs needed to be done to their vehicle once the regular warranty expires. Assuming is not good enough because you never know what can break on the vehicle after the regular warranty expires. Maybe nothing will break, but do you really want to take a chance on this? What if there are multiple breakdowns at different intervals? Then you’re definitely going to be paying a lot more money than the $2,000 cost of the extended warranty out of your pocket for repairs. You forget that the parts costs for these vehicles have gone up over 4x since the supply chain problems began and the labor costs have gone up too. Do you really want to pay 4x more for parts and more for labor? I know that I don’t.
05-31-22, 07:17 AM
#138
Lexus Test Driver
On the contrary, I think we are finally getting to a point where all members can benefit. I pray the Mods don't close the thread! 
While I was trying to fall asleep last night after the long Memorial Day weekend, I admittedly read quite a few of the BBB complaints against IAS. Below is a verbatim non-comprehensive list of some of the rejection notices posted:
That's it for now.
While I was trying to fall asleep last night after the long Memorial Day weekend, I admittedly read quite a few of the BBB complaints against IAS. Below is a verbatim non-comprehensive list of some of the rejection notices posted:
- Wheel/Tire damage not caused by "Road Hazard" - "Road hazard is defined as debris on the road surface such as nails, glass, potholes, rocks, tree limbs or any other object or condition not normally found in the roadway. However, road conditions (for example, uneven lanes due to repaving or metal plates used to temporarily cover a hole in the road) found in areas designated as construction zones or construction sites will not be considered a covered road hazard."
- Getting a tire/wheel repair/replacement in an emergency without prior authorization
- Wheel damage caused by Curb Rash (I doubt this exclusion applies to OP given what they paid, but I still had a good laugh)
- Dent Repair denied on hood because only "vertical surfaces" were covered (LOL)
- Key Fob replacement denied on spare keys after complainant lost one key - policy only covers the lost key, not the other keys that need to be recoded to match the new key
- Wheel/Tire damage because complainant didn't know what specifically on the road caused said damage (a reason must be given, and adjusters would not let complainant change their answer)
- Windshield damage denied because "pipes aren't covered"
- Damage to other parts of the vehicle resulting from failure of a covered part. For example, a covered tire explodes and the vehicle veers off into a wall and is totaled - only the tire is covered. OOF!
- And my favorite one: Owner of a Maserati MC Stradale stuck with an extra $400 bill on a wheel because IAS claimed to have found a cheaper version elsewhere, despite the wheel being *exclusive* to Maserati and only sold by Maserati. Or in other words, insurer gets final say on what is "fair value" for replacement/repair costs, and it is 100% of the time arbitrary. I've had similar experiences where I needed a new wheel but insurer decided it was 'repairable' and they threw me a few pennies for a "ding king" guy in a mobile truck to "fix" my wheel. I can tell you those repairs hardly ever hold up on high-end wheels. This was the point of time in the life-cycle of the policy where the actuaries were losing money and things very quickly went from replace, to repair, and very cheaply at that.
That's it for now.
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nitroracer (05-31-22)
05-31-22, 07:23 AM
#139
Yes, I understand what you’re saying, but you cannot compare an iPhone warranty with the extended warranty for a $55,000 Lexus ES350 UL. Also, how can anybody that owns the ES350 determine whether or not any out of warranty repairs will be less than or equal to the cost of the extended warranty? They don’t until a repair is needed. It doesn’t make any sense to think this way.
There are so many components in the ES350 that nobody can forecast what will break and what will not break and how much that it will cost for repairs and whether it will cost less than the extended warranty to do repairs. They also cannot predict the frequency of different repairs that might be needed to be done to the vehicle once the existing warranty expires. How can they predict the unknown? They can’t predict what will or will not happen. They’re only assuming that there will be no repairs needed to be done to their vehicle once the regular warranty expires. Assuming is not good enough because you never know what can break on the vehicle after the regular warranty expires. Maybe nothing will break, but do you really want to take a chance on this? What if there are multiple breakdowns at different intervals? Then you’re definitely going to be paying a lot more money than the $2,000 cost of the extended warranty out of your pocket for repairs. You forget that the parts costs for these vehicles have gone up over 4x since the supply chain problems began and the labor costs have gone up too. Do you really want to pay 4x more for parts and more for labor? I know that I don’t.
There are so many components in the ES350 that nobody can forecast what will break and what will not break and how much that it will cost for repairs and whether it will cost less than the extended warranty to do repairs. They also cannot predict the frequency of different repairs that might be needed to be done to the vehicle once the existing warranty expires. How can they predict the unknown? They can’t predict what will or will not happen. They’re only assuming that there will be no repairs needed to be done to their vehicle once the regular warranty expires. Assuming is not good enough because you never know what can break on the vehicle after the regular warranty expires. Maybe nothing will break, but do you really want to take a chance on this? What if there are multiple breakdowns at different intervals? Then you’re definitely going to be paying a lot more money than the $2,000 cost of the extended warranty out of your pocket for repairs. You forget that the parts costs for these vehicles have gone up over 4x since the supply chain problems began and the labor costs have gone up too. Do you really want to pay 4x more for parts and more for labor? I know that I don’t.
If they price the policy at $1400, we know they're expecting to pay out *less than* $1400. If all things go well for them, considerably less.
05-31-22, 07:41 AM
#140
Lead Lap
The intelligent thing to do is what LS500 stated: Take some money each week or month and put it away for a rainy day. After a time you'll have a substantial amount of YOUR money to spend on whatever you want. Car repairs, a trip to Europe, a cruise in the Caribbean, or whatever. Insurance company gets squat... 
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05-31-22, 07:44 AM
#141
The intelligent thing to do is what LS500 stated: Take some money each week or month and put it away for a rainy day. After a time you'll have a substantial amount of YOUR money to spend on whatever you want. Car repairs, a trip to Europe, a cruise in the Caribbean, or whatever. Insurance company gets squat...
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05-31-22, 07:57 AM
#142
Instructor
Thread Starter
I understand where you're coming from. But as members have pointed out, the bean counters actually do these calculations *for you*.
If they price the policy at $1400, we know they're expecting to pay out *less than* $1400. If all things go well for them, considerably less.
If they price the policy at $1400, we know they're expecting to pay out *less than* $1400. If all things go well for them, considerably less.
I purchased both warranties for a total of $3,800. Each warranty has the maximum coverage and the maximum amount of years/mileage. The Wheel and Tire warranty is for 7 years/unlimited miles. The extended warranty is for 10 years/150,000 miles. I paid $2,980 back 14 years ago in 2008 for the extended warranty for my brand new 2008 Dodge Charger RT Track Pack Daytona “without” a wheel and tire warranty, so what I paid today in 2022 for both warranties for my ES350 UL isn’t expensive compared to what I paid back 14 years ago for only one warranty for my Dodge Charger. The difference is only +$820 more in cost today than what I paid back in 2008 and I got 2 different warranties. Not 1 warranty like I did back then in 2008.
05-31-22, 09:38 AM
#143
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Perfect example - ALL Toyota/Lexus engines run very rich from the factory. It is entirely intentional because they're not paying for fuel, they're on the hook if you blow up your engine by getting bad gasoline, so they calibrate the engine to run very rich and use the catalytic converters to clean up the mess. This is all at your expense because YOU pay for the fuel, not them. Same thing with the "lifetime" fill on their transmissions. Only in the US. The rest of the world has specified ATF change intervals. They're avoiding paying the EPA for a waste stream at YOUR expense because they say you never have to change the ATF, despite AISIN saying differently. Your warranty will be long expired if/when there is a gearbox failure because the fluid is bad.
Best of luck with your warranties. More than likely they'll be a waste of money, but obviously they're worth it to your peace of mind.
καλό ταξίδι χωριάτης!
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nitroracer (05-15-23)
05-31-22, 10:07 AM
#144
Lexus Test Driver
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LexFinally (05-31-22)
05-31-22, 10:36 AM
#145
Lead Lap
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LexFinally (05-31-22)
05-31-22, 10:41 AM
#146
Instructor
Thread Starter
I'll take that bet. Lexus knows very well what will and will not break on ALL their cars. There are LOTS of design specs intended to reduce or eliminate warranty claims against any model, and they absolutely know what will and will not cause them warranty claims. The only problem is, they won't share that information with the buyers.
Perfect example - ALL Toyota/Lexus engines run very rich from the factory. It is entirely intentional because they're not paying for fuel, they're on the hook if you blow up your engine by getting bad gasoline, so they calibrate the engine to run very rich and use the catalytic converters to clean up the mess. This is all at your expense because YOU pay for the fuel, not them. Same thing with the "lifetime" fill on their transmissions. Only in the US. The rest of the world has specified ATF change intervals. They're avoiding paying the EPA for a waste stream at YOUR expense because they say you never have to change the ATF, despite AISIN saying differently. Your warranty will be long expired if/when there is a gearbox failure because the fluid is bad.
Best of luck with your warranties. More than likely they'll be a waste of money, but obviously they're worth it to your peace of mind.
καλό ταξίδι χωριάτης!
Perfect example - ALL Toyota/Lexus engines run very rich from the factory. It is entirely intentional because they're not paying for fuel, they're on the hook if you blow up your engine by getting bad gasoline, so they calibrate the engine to run very rich and use the catalytic converters to clean up the mess. This is all at your expense because YOU pay for the fuel, not them. Same thing with the "lifetime" fill on their transmissions. Only in the US. The rest of the world has specified ATF change intervals. They're avoiding paying the EPA for a waste stream at YOUR expense because they say you never have to change the ATF, despite AISIN saying differently. Your warranty will be long expired if/when there is a gearbox failure because the fluid is bad.
Best of luck with your warranties. More than likely they'll be a waste of money, but obviously they're worth it to your peace of mind.
καλό ταξίδι χωριάτης!
05-31-22, 10:57 AM
#147
Same thing with the "lifetime" fill on their transmissions. Only in the US. The rest of the world has specified ATF change intervals. They're avoiding paying the EPA for a waste stream at YOUR expense because they say you never have to change the ATF, despite AISIN saying differently. Your warranty will be long expired if/when there is a gearbox failure because the fluid is bad.
And as an aside, I got into an argument once on a Gen 3 Prius board over something similar. They sold the same engine everywhere in the world, but their oil-weight recommendations were different in different countries. Some of this is explainable by local conditions, such as the thicker-oil reco in hot Australia. But when I brought this up and opined that it was OK to use oil that was within US specs but not Toyota's first recommendation, it positively enraged some posters, who insisted that the factory recommendations were religion and my willingness to stray was heresy. There are folks who take this "do as you're told" mentality pretty far.
05-31-22, 11:13 AM
#148
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Aisin says 60k miles, 100k km full fluid change.
Oil change/weight/brand is religion. Very few know the truth, and they all work for oil analysis labs. They seem to be sworn to secrecy. I don't argue about what oil someone wants to run. It's completely pointless. I do used oil analysis on my engines and I know what good should be, but my data points are only 3 cars, and I use Blackstone Labs who are considered the worst of all choices for a number of reasons. They are adequate for what I want to know, and that's all I'll say about that.
Oil change/weight/brand is religion. Very few know the truth, and they all work for oil analysis labs. They seem to be sworn to secrecy. I don't argue about what oil someone wants to run. It's completely pointless. I do used oil analysis on my engines and I know what good should be, but my data points are only 3 cars, and I use Blackstone Labs who are considered the worst of all choices for a number of reasons. They are adequate for what I want to know, and that's all I'll say about that.
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05-31-22, 01:07 PM
#149
Aisin says 60k miles, 100k km full fluid change.
Oil change/weight/brand is religion. Very few know the truth, and they all work for oil analysis labs. They seem to be sworn to secrecy. I don't argue about what oil someone wants to run. It's completely pointless. I do used oil analysis on my engines and I know what good should be, but my data points are only 3 cars, and I use Blackstone Labs who are considered the worst of all choices for a number of reasons. They are adequate for what I want to know, and that's all I'll say about that.
Oil change/weight/brand is religion. Very few know the truth, and they all work for oil analysis labs. They seem to be sworn to secrecy. I don't argue about what oil someone wants to run. It's completely pointless. I do used oil analysis on my engines and I know what good should be, but my data points are only 3 cars, and I use Blackstone Labs who are considered the worst of all choices for a number of reasons. They are adequate for what I want to know, and that's all I'll say about that.
05-31-22, 06:43 PM
#150
That's right. I "used" to do exactly that when I used to lease all of my vehicles. I purchased this time around because leasing doesn't make sense for me and for my household with today's high leasing prices. So, I purchased the 2022 Lexus ES350 Ultra Luxury and also purchased a brand new 2022 Toyota Avalon Limited.
Your credibility was already highly suspect before this tall tale. If anyone believes this ridiculous tale, there's a bridge for sale with your name on it.
Last edited by DavidZ; 06-01-22 at 03:54 AM.
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