703

Here is one example:

If you were one of those 1134 owners of an ES300h produced in US and CA, then you have a ****ty engine.

Total Number of Vehicles Potentially Involved:

Toyota Avalon HV : 664 Toyota Camry : 2,609 Toyota Camry HV : 2,864 Toyota RAV4 : 30,515 Toyota RAV4 HV : 6,405 Lexus ES300h : 1,134 Total : 44,191


Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada Inc. [“TMMC”] 1055 Fountain Street North, Cambridge, Ontario, Canada N3H 5K2
Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. [“TMMK”] 1001 Cherry Blossom Way Georgetown, KY 40324

The subject vehicles are equipped with a 2.5L 4 Cylinder engine (A25A) and may have been produced with engine blocks containing higher porosity levels. Higher levels of porosity could create cracks in the cooling passages, resulting in coolant leaking internally and/or externally. This may lead to engine noise, engine smoke, warning lights/malfunction indicator illumination, an audible chime sounding, and/or, in some cases, engine overheating and possible internal mechanical engine damage (e.g. seizing of internal engine components). If engine overheating or internal mechanical engine damage were to occur on involved conventional gasoline vehicles, a vehicle stall while driving at higher speeds could occur without prior warning to the driver, increasing the risk of crash. For hybrid and conventional gasoline vehicles, the internal mechanical engine damage can potentially cause engine oil to leak, which, in the presence of an ignition source, can lead to an increased risk of fire.

Wilson2000

Wow, this is the first I've heard of this! I may have dodged a bullet as I came very close to buying a 2020 ES300h for my wife. Now I'm glad my wife wouldn't test drive it (due to Covid fears of visiting a dealer). We are still in the market, but there is hardly any inventory to choose from. Hopefully they resolved the manufacturing issue. I lost some confidence in Toyota when they were having head gasket issues in their V6 trucks a couple of decades ago. The recalls went on for years, and even after they identified the problem, they were still manufacturing new trucks with the same issue! That said, even with their occasional glaring issues like this, they still have the best reliability in general among all brands.

glamglam

I never knew this. I wonder what percentage of ES300h vehicles that were built were affected with this issue when compared to the total production numbers of ES vehicles? Is it 2%, 5%, 10%?

LexFinally

I'm not a payrolled cheerleader for any brand, but I think the data supports your last sentence. If you've gotta drive something, it's them or somebody else. And who's the somebody else? Subaru had head gasket issues for 20 years. Honda's new highly stressed turbo 4's have fuel dilution issues and balky 10-speed automatics. The Germans are built to outlast the warranty by 5 minutes. Hyundai/Kia has had everything from internal metal shavings choking their Fours, to antilock brake sensors they still don't know how to fix that burst into flames when the car isn't even running. And not on 1100 cars, but on hundreds of thousands. Tesla? Nissan? The Americans? Yeah, right. Not with my money, you don't.

grp52

For those interested here's a link to the NHTSA Toyota DEFECT INFORMATION REPORT.

The production period for the affected 2020 model year ES 300h vehicles was September 16, 2019 through December 18, 2019.

lesz

Thanks for posting the link.

For those who are not inclined to read the NHTSA Information report, the report puts things into perspective. While it says that about 44,000 Toyota and Lexus vehicles were potentially involved, it also says that actual number of vehicles involved with the problem engines was only about 250 vehicles.

Considering all of the Toyota and Lexus vehicles with the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine for model years 2019 and 2020, I would hardly consider 250 vehicles (about 0.5% of those 44,000 potentially affected vehicles, according to the report) to be a major issue that merits fretting over Toyota/Lexus quality. Yet, some who are discussing the issue here seem to be assuming a "the sky is falling" attitude.

Wilson2000

True, but if one is in the unlucky 0.5%, the sky is falling in one's own world. I can imagine how peeved I would be if I spent $60K+ for a car that needed an engine swap. I doubt the vehicles with engine swaps will ever be as reliable going forward as their factory-installed-engine brethren.

Get it together Toyota...you're better than this!

lesz

I get your point, and, yes, if my car had the faulty engine, I would not be happy, but it should be noted that the 0.5% is 0.5% of the 44,000 cars that potentially had the faulty engine. Considering that Toyota and Lexus are annually building hundreds of thousands of cars with the 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine, 25 cars with the defective engines would only be an even much tinier fraction of the cars built with that engine.

So, yes, it is a problem but certainly not one of major proportions.

Wilson2000

Agreed, assuming we are getting the entire story here. However, where there is smoke, there's fire. Knowing that the porosity problem exists, and that it has been critical enough for 25 engines needing to be replaced, how many other engines may have porosity issues, but to a lesser degree? Those that aren't currently showing signs of the defect, could conceivably still prove to be defective in the future.

I know one thing...I wouldn't consider buying a used Toyota/Lexus with a 2.5 engine built during the suspected time period!

Jack1986

I agree with this 100% 👍🏾

703

yep. The whole point is to avoid cars mentioned produced during that period. When you own a car, it’s irrelevant that more than 99.99 percent of owners aren’t affected, when you are and your faulty engine shows it true colour after the warranty period.

mcomer

Recent rumor is that ES production is returning to Japan as the Kentucky plant gears up for the
Avalon replacement Crown + Camry products. Anyone, please add or debunk this if you can.

glamglam

That’s true. The ES production will be returning back to Japan with the new 2024 redesign model.

grp52

Can't get more official than a Toyota press release Toyota’s First U.S. Vehicle Plant Shifts Transformation into High Gear:

LexFinally

It's been reported the "Crown product" is a luxed-up Highlander — in other words, the Avalon replacement in SUV form, which can be reasonably expected to sell much better than the final-years Avalon did. Sounds like they're clearing the way to produce the increased volume of that particular money-printing machine.