E46CT

Under acceleration, and only hard acceleration, yes the ESh is kind of loud. But under 99% of driving, it's quieter by definition, vs. a 350 due to the engine literally being off. The engine can turn off up to 75mph cruising.

and really the ESh is no slouch. In fact one could find it even more responsive and torquier in real world driving scenarios requiring instant power, due to how electric motors work, vs a traditional transmission needing to downshift and for the engine to wind up to its power band.

It surprises me how quick and responsive the ESh picks up. Not fast in an absolute sense, say flooring it for a 1/4 mile, but in terms of maneuvering and passing, it's much more than adequate. Some info from a hybrid driver!

AllinCLE

I've put 40K miles on my 2019 ES 350 UL, and I've had numerous 300h as loaners, sometimes for weeks at a time. While I found the hybrid is surprisingly decent, the 350 is the one to get. I found the V6 quieter in most situations, especially when accelerating. And for highway cruising, it's the better choice. I do mostly highway driving and get great mileage out of it too. On the open road, I can touch 38-40mpg easy setting cruise to 75mph or so, and overall I've averaged exactly 30 MPG. I like data, and I log every fill up. This is Where it stands as of today:

On Car and Driver's 75mph test, their result of 39mpg was right in line with what I see in the real world. Interestingly, their 300h managed only 38mpg in the same test. It's not unusual for hybrids to not always live up to their hwy ratings, as their main advantage is in city driving. Your mileage may vary, of course, literally.

I would not describe the ES 350 as fast, or sporty in any way. The power delivery is wonderfully linear (in a turbocharged modern world!) and buttery smooth, pretty much always, at any rpm. The power train is well matched to the laid back demeanor of the car. It won't win many races, however one car it will always out accelerate is its sibling, the 300h. Doesn't matter if it's from a stop, 30-50, or 50-70mph. Here's a snapshot of C/D's test results for both, again, because I like data:

mikemu30

Great analytic - beware as the hybrid lovers are about to come after you in a big way This coming from anon-hybrid owner! I too have had hybrids as loaners and still not a fan but it's the direction everything is going these days.

AllinCLE

Oh I'm sure you're right, as it hurts the validation they constantly seek. While it isn't the best fit for the driving that I do, I'm sure the hybrid's a perfectly good a car in it's own right as long as you don't mind how slow it is. Especially for in town driving, where lots of stop and go traffic let it maximize the benefits of the hybrid powertrain.

Freeway driving minimizes the 300h's strengths, because the small battery will be depleted and there's essentially zero regen because you aren't really doing any braking. So you essentially have a smaller, less powerful, less refined engine working harder to move a heavier car. The longer the trip and the faster you drive, the faster the 300h's efficiency advantage disappears. Which is why C/D and I see the mileage results above.

mikemu30

Yeah my daily commute is mainly straight highway with minimal stop and go although i don't average quite as much as you do. Maybe 26 but on pure highway runs I've been up near 35 as well.

TechNut

I think you just made the point that both sides of this conversation may be seeking validation... Every drivetrain has different pros and cons, and even some high performance sports cars are adding mild hybrids but not so much for fuel economy as the additional performance that instant torque gives them. People have definitely had concerns about the batteries since the early hybrids but there is now plenty of historical data to dispel those concerns. The ES hybrid is designed to be a blend of comfort and fuel economy and certainly isn't designed for performance, but suggesting it is "slow" depends on how aggressively one drives the car. Since I am surrounded by traffic in the city where hybrids excel, it goes just as fast as any surrounding traffic. Where I see the biggest difference is actually on the road, especially in hilly or mountainous terrains, where the 4 cylinder engine can really struggle. The bottom line is that the OP just needs to test drive both and determine which combination of pros and cons best meets his or her needs. Both are solid drivetrains and each clearly has a passionate following.

AllinCLE

I think it's pretty clear that when I say "the hybrid" I'm talking about the ES 300h, not hybrids in general. So how other OEMs are applying the technology in other vehicles to improve performance is irrelevant when comparing the ES 350 and ES 300h. I called it slow because in my experience, subjectively, I found the 300h's acceleration lacking and objectively it accelerates significantly slower than its V6 sibling. Data provided above. If you compared that to other new cars on the market, it will quickly become apparent that it is below average. That's okay though, especially if acceleration is not important to you or your driving habits. Its acceleration being perfectly adequate for you doesn't negate how it compares.

I'm actually not passionate about the ES with any powertrain, despite owning the V6. I shared my experience with both vehicles, and provided information to support the areas that are for some reason controversial on this forum (mileage and acceleration). I like data, it takes emotion out of it. I'm not the one bringing up what some totally unrelated hybrid vehicles do performance-wise, nor am I the one claiming that the ES 300h is more responsive when "maneuvering and passing" (though to be fair that was another poster). This is objectively and demonstrably untrue, using the passing acceleration numbers (30-50 and 50-70).

I would hazard a guess I'm on the end of the bell curve here. My daily commute is about 60 miles each way, plus a few trips for work each month.

mikemu30

I would hazard a guess I'm on the end of the bell curve here. My daily commute is about 60 miles each way, plus a few trips for work each month.[/QUOTE]My commute is much less - roughly 22 miles each way so that must account for some decline in MPG as well. Whatever - I don't pay any attention to the MPG stats. If I did, I'd be driving a Prius and that ain't happening anytime soon.

ApexViewer

I drive an ES 350 2021. At low speeds, both are the same. However, I love the engine sound on the 350. Powerful V6 and linear acceleration. If you simply don't care about the performance and great sounding engine, 300h is for you. Ride quality is the same.

E46CT

I prefer my car to have no sound which the hybrid helps a lot.

If I wanted to hear "performance engine noise," a V6 of any make wouldn't be my go-to lol.

My next car will likely be full electric. Was just talking to my friend about this today who switched from F80 M3 to Tesla... he says ICE cars seem ridiculously absurdly bad in comparison. In this day and age a car not need make noise. All those noises and vibration ICE cars make are stupid and they're not even faster then electric.

Just one of those things... will be looked back upon in 100 years like the horse and buggy.

LexFinally

Wellllll.... Obviously something as subjective as an engine note is a matter of personal taste. As noted earlier in this thread, the operative rule is to try before you buy.

But speaking for myself, I find this a slightly surprising comment. Savagegeese, for one, singles out the ES 350 for the agreeable harmonics and engine note, saying specifically that no four-cylinder and/or turbo setup can match it. True Delta's Michael Karesh made exactly the same comment when testing an ES 350 against a turbo-four Mazda6. As for me, my own car's Honda V6 is one of the reasons I bought it. I delight in listening to it every time I drive it, and I mash it when entirely unnecessary just so I can hear it. As I say, to each their own.

E46CT

Savage did say the V6 sounds better, but I think he also did say the Hybrid is still the superior choice as it suits the nature of the ES better. So take that for what it's worth.

LexFinally

Yes, he did say that. To be clear, I was addressing only the specific comment about the sound of a V6 engine.

radiologym

I have been driving 350 for so long that I may miss V6 power and it's composed acceleration. V6 is certainly louder than my Tesla Y but V6 masks road noise because it is more constant. Tesla feels cheep both in build and ride quality in comparison to Lexus and I gave it to my wife. I am not a fan of instant acceleration and regenerative breaking of our EV, I get car sick in it which does not happen in a Lexus. Can anyone comment more on 300h vs 350 driving dynamics including breaking and acceleration ?

Dmaxdmax

I love my ES300h precisely because it's smooth and quiet. I can play the Mark Levinson softly and hear every bit of the inner harmonies.