Hybrid 300h vs V6 ES350? (Merged threads)
08-15-21, 07:48 AM
#46
I bought the 2020 ES300h thinking that after 23 years and 5 generations Toyota has mastered the Hybrid system.
I am glad i did that. This car is soooooo smooth and comfortable that i have put over 30,000 km (19k miles) over the past 9 months on the car.
I have the Canadian premium package which doesn't have the acoustic side windows, but still whisper quite at highway and city speeds.
I can never hear or feel the engine, when it kicks in.
And bonus is the fuel economy. I'm averaging 4.4 liters/100km (53.4 MPG)
I have a 16 RX with acoustic glass and the V6 and this car is by far more comfortable and quieter.
I will never buy another gas only car. I think the days of pure gas powered cars are over.
I am glad i did that. This car is soooooo smooth and comfortable that i have put over 30,000 km (19k miles) over the past 9 months on the car.
I have the Canadian premium package which doesn't have the acoustic side windows, but still whisper quite at highway and city speeds.
I can never hear or feel the engine, when it kicks in.
And bonus is the fuel economy. I'm averaging 4.4 liters/100km (53.4 MPG)
I have a 16 RX with acoustic glass and the V6 and this car is by far more comfortable and quieter.
I will never buy another gas only car. I think the days of pure gas powered cars are over.
10-11-21, 09:03 AM
#47
Intermediate
2021 vs 2019 and Fully Loaded 300H vs Fully Loaded 350
Currently looking at picking up a used Lexus ES, and after doing some reading in this forum, figured I'd create a thread to clear up a few questions.
First of all, what are the differences between the 2021 and 2019 models? The only thing I can come across is the power-folding mirrors on the 2020. I'm fully aware the refresh just came out for the 2022, so I'm not expecting anything major, but I just wanted to verify I'm not really missing anything.
And are there any differences between a fully loaded 300H and a fully loaded 350? I imagine there shouldn't be, but a handful of posts claimed something along the lines of all the 300Hs, even the base, has more soundproofing than the 350 unless you get the Luxury or Ultra Luxury trims. Any other of these small differences occur between these 2 models?
First of all, what are the differences between the 2021 and 2019 models? The only thing I can come across is the power-folding mirrors on the 2020. I'm fully aware the refresh just came out for the 2022, so I'm not expecting anything major, but I just wanted to verify I'm not really missing anything.
And are there any differences between a fully loaded 300H and a fully loaded 350? I imagine there shouldn't be, but a handful of posts claimed something along the lines of all the 300Hs, even the base, has more soundproofing than the 350 unless you get the Luxury or Ultra Luxury trims. Any other of these small differences occur between these 2 models?
10-11-21, 09:11 AM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
Not really however I noticed improvements in manufacturing from my early MY2021 to mid MY2021 (11/20 build vs 6/21 build) so I can imagine there may be more improvements from first year models as the factory irons out production and assembly kinks.
It is true that the ES300h gets additional specific soundproofing at the firewall and dash area. Beyond that I'm not aware of any other design differences.
The ES300h also has a 0.26 coefficient of drag while the ES350 has 0.29.
It is true that the ES300h gets additional specific soundproofing at the firewall and dash area. Beyond that I'm not aware of any other design differences.
The ES300h also has a 0.26 coefficient of drag while the ES350 has 0.29.
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JamesAZ (10-11-21)
10-11-21, 09:26 AM
#49
Intermediate
Not really however I noticed improvements in manufacturing from my early MY2021 to mid MY2021 (11/20 build vs 6/21 build) so I can imagine there may be more improvements from first year models as the factory irons out production and assembly kinks.
It is true that the ES300h gets additional specific soundproofing at the firewall and dash area. Beyond that I'm not aware of any other design differences.
The ES300h also has a 0.26 coefficient of drag while the ES350 has 0.29.
It is true that the ES300h gets additional specific soundproofing at the firewall and dash area. Beyond that I'm not aware of any other design differences.
The ES300h also has a 0.26 coefficient of drag while the ES350 has 0.29.
10-11-21, 09:40 AM
#50
Lexus Test Driver
I believe the UL gets noise-reduction wheels and dual-pane front side windows. If I'm not mistaken, the dual pane windows come on the Luxury edition as well.
And yes the additional soundproofing I mentioned is hybrid-specific, so would not apply to the V6 models. As to what difference it actually makes I'm not sure. But it's there.
And yes the additional soundproofing I mentioned is hybrid-specific, so would not apply to the V6 models. As to what difference it actually makes I'm not sure. But it's there.
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JamesAZ (10-11-21)
10-11-21, 09:58 AM
#51
Intermediate
The purpose I'd imagine is due to the engine portion being louder than the V6 on the 350. So in reality I imagine they're the same in real-world situations for noise levels. If anything the Hybrid is quieter at city speeds. But the dual pane windows and noise-reduction wheels do in fact come standard with the UL and the dual-pane does, in fact, come with the Luxury trim as well, with the wheels being an option as opposed to standard.
10-11-21, 11:10 AM
#52
Both of them get the power folding mirrors from MY2020.
ES350 had the panoramic ful-glass roof, that is not an option for the ES300h, but the ES300h has a lot more soundproofing between the engine and the cabin.
I got the hybrid because I was afraid of the harsh shifts from the 8 speed on 350.
ES350 had the panoramic ful-glass roof, that is not an option for the ES300h, but the ES300h has a lot more soundproofing between the engine and the cabin.
I got the hybrid because I was afraid of the harsh shifts from the 8 speed on 350.
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JamesAZ (10-11-21)
10-11-21, 12:52 PM
#53
...
First of all, what are the differences between the 2021 and 2019 models? The only thing I can come across is the power-folding mirrors on the 2020. I'm fully aware the refresh just came out for the 2022, so I'm not expecting anything major, but I just wanted to verify I'm not really missing anything.
...
First of all, what are the differences between the 2021 and 2019 models? The only thing I can come across is the power-folding mirrors on the 2020. I'm fully aware the refresh just came out for the 2022, so I'm not expecting anything major, but I just wanted to verify I'm not really missing anything.
...
While you're usually stuck with whatever cellular data service the car manufacture builds into the car and thus most people don't even consider it in their buying choices, there is a difference in cellular data service providers between the 2019 and 2021 model years. The 2019 model year uses Verizon and the 2021 model year uses AT&T for the cellular data service provider for the car's built-in telemetric services (e.g., remote start, car status items [doors, hood, trunk open/closed/locked/unlocked], SOS/emergency services, and in car WiFi if activated. While most likely not much of a factor some cellular phone plan have discounted add-on prices for in car WiFi if you plan on activating it. Although there isn't much difference in coverage areas now-a-days between AT&T and Verizon, some differences still exist so in the rare case where you may have a choice in cellular data service provider coverage areas might be a factor for consideration.
A pretty minor item but still somewhat of an annoyance, the 2019 model year does not have auto update of daylight saving time whereas the 2021 model year does have auto update.
And are there any differences between a fully loaded 300H and a fully loaded 350? I imagine there shouldn't be, but a handful of posts claimed something along the lines of all the 300Hs, even the base, has more soundproofing than the 350 unless you get the Luxury or Ultra Luxury trims. Any other of these small differences occur between these 2 models?
I assume you've already aware of the really major difference between a 300h and a 350 - performance related factors: horsepower, acceleration, and gas mileage.
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JamesAZ (10-11-21)
10-11-21, 01:28 PM
#54
Intermediate
Both of them get the power folding mirrors from MY2020.
ES350 had the panoramic ful-glass roof, that is not an option for the ES300h, but the ES300h has a lot more soundproofing between the engine and the cabin.
I got the hybrid because I was afraid of the harsh shifts from the 8 speed on 350.
ES350 had the panoramic ful-glass roof, that is not an option for the ES300h, but the ES300h has a lot more soundproofing between the engine and the cabin.
I got the hybrid because I was afraid of the harsh shifts from the 8 speed on 350.
I currently have a 2018 Camry, so I imagine the 8 speed would feel similar if not the same on the ES 350. But I previously had a 2010 Prius and absolutely loved the way it drove. So either I get a fun V6, or a nice smooth hybrid. Either way, I'd be happy.
The 2021 model has Android Auto [as well as Apple CarPlay] and the 2019 model doesn't have Android Auto.
While you're usually stuck with whatever cellular data service the car manufacture builds into the car and thus most people don't even consider it in their buying choices, there is a difference in cellular data service providers between the 2019 and 2021 model years. The 2019 model year uses Verizon and the 2021 model year uses AT&T for the cellular data service provider for the car's built-in telemetric services (e.g., remote start, car status items [doors, hood, trunk open/closed/locked/unlocked], SOS/emergency services, and in car WiFi if activated. While most likely not much of a factor some cellular phone plan have discounted add-on prices for in car WiFi if you plan on activating it. Although there isn't much difference in coverage areas now-a-days between AT&T and Verizon, some differences still exist so in the rare case where you may have a choice in cellular data service provider coverage areas might be a factor for consideration.
A pretty minor item but still somewhat of an annoyance, the 2019 model year does not have auto update of daylight saving time whereas the 2021 model year does have auto update.
You cannot get a panoramic glass roof with the 300h but you can with the ultra luxury 350.
I assume you've already aware of the really major difference between a 300h and a 350 - performance related factors: horsepower, acceleration, and gas mileage.
While you're usually stuck with whatever cellular data service the car manufacture builds into the car and thus most people don't even consider it in their buying choices, there is a difference in cellular data service providers between the 2019 and 2021 model years. The 2019 model year uses Verizon and the 2021 model year uses AT&T for the cellular data service provider for the car's built-in telemetric services (e.g., remote start, car status items [doors, hood, trunk open/closed/locked/unlocked], SOS/emergency services, and in car WiFi if activated. While most likely not much of a factor some cellular phone plan have discounted add-on prices for in car WiFi if you plan on activating it. Although there isn't much difference in coverage areas now-a-days between AT&T and Verizon, some differences still exist so in the rare case where you may have a choice in cellular data service provider coverage areas might be a factor for consideration.
A pretty minor item but still somewhat of an annoyance, the 2019 model year does not have auto update of daylight saving time whereas the 2021 model year does have auto update.
You cannot get a panoramic glass roof with the 300h but you can with the ultra luxury 350.
I assume you've already aware of the really major difference between a 300h and a 350 - performance related factors: horsepower, acceleration, and gas mileage.
But definitely thank you for that insight, it's those weird little changes that make it under the radar that no one really notices or talks about that do make quite the difference.
Last edited by JamesAZ; 10-11-21 at 01:33 PM.
10-11-21, 01:48 PM
#55
The purpose I'd imagine is due to the engine portion being louder than the V6 on the 350. So in reality I imagine they're the same in real-world situations for noise levels. If anything the Hybrid is quieter at city speeds. But the dual pane windows and noise-reduction wheels do in fact come standard with the UL and the dual-pane does, in fact, come with the Luxury trim as well, with the wheels being an option as opposed to standard.
As for differences between 2019 and 2021, two I can think of both involve infotainment: 1) I believe some early 2019s lacked Apple CarPlay. Wiser heads here can confirm or correct that. 2) All 2019s and some 2020s had the widely criticized problem with a lack of sound from the rear stereo speakers. I think that problem, which Lexus has never formally admitted to but did acknowledge in a service bulletin as a rear amplifier problem, was fixed for 2021.
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JamesAZ (10-11-21)
10-11-21, 02:28 PM
#56
Intermediate
Also worth mentioning from a noise and vibration standpoint is that the UL has the front and rear chassis "performance dampers" standard, while Luxury does not offer them even as an option. Most who've compared have said the apparent difference they make is small, but just wanted to mention it.
As for differences between 2019 and 2021, two I can think of both involve infotainment: 1) I believe some early 2019s lacked Apple CarPlay. Wiser heads here can confirm or correct that. 2) All 2019s and some 2020s had the widely criticized problem with a lack of sound from the rear stereo speakers. I think that problem, which Lexus has never formally admitted to but did acknowledge in a service bulletin as a rear amplifier problem, was fixed for 2021.
As for differences between 2019 and 2021, two I can think of both involve infotainment: 1) I believe some early 2019s lacked Apple CarPlay. Wiser heads here can confirm or correct that. 2) All 2019s and some 2020s had the widely criticized problem with a lack of sound from the rear stereo speakers. I think that problem, which Lexus has never formally admitted to but did acknowledge in a service bulletin as a rear amplifier problem, was fixed for 2021.
10-11-21, 06:14 PM
#57
Lexus Test Driver
Same with ML but Lexus never issued a tsb for that system. All the sound comes from the front- I've gotten used to it but some folks still hate it.
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JamesAZ (10-12-21)
10-11-21, 08:53 PM
#58
Intermediate
Just came across this:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...76288-9999.pdf
Seems they issued a TSB for the 2019 model years with the base system. So maybe they fixed the issue? But yeah, probably best to just check it out for myself since it seems everyone is so divided on this issue.
Last edited by JamesAZ; 10-11-21 at 08:58 PM.
10-12-21, 02:34 AM
#59
The 2021 model has Android Auto [as well as Apple CarPlay] and the 2019 model doesn't have Android Auto.
While you're usually stuck with whatever cellular data service the car manufacture builds into the car and thus most people don't even consider it in their buying choices, there is a difference in cellular data service providers between the 2019 and 2021 model years. The 2019 model year uses Verizon and the 2021 model year uses AT&T for the cellular data service provider for the car's built-in telemetric services (e.g., remote start, car status items [doors, hood, trunk open/closed/locked/unlocked], SOS/emergency services, and in car WiFi if activated. While most likely not much of a factor some cellular phone plan have discounted add-on prices for in car WiFi if you plan on activating it. Although there isn't much difference in coverage areas now-a-days between AT&T and Verizon, some differences still exist so in the rare case where you may have a choice in cellular data service provider coverage areas might be a factor for consideration.
A pretty minor item but still somewhat of an annoyance, the 2019 model year does not have auto update of daylight saving time whereas the 2021 model year does have auto update.
While you're usually stuck with whatever cellular data service the car manufacture builds into the car and thus most people don't even consider it in their buying choices, there is a difference in cellular data service providers between the 2019 and 2021 model years. The 2019 model year uses Verizon and the 2021 model year uses AT&T for the cellular data service provider for the car's built-in telemetric services (e.g., remote start, car status items [doors, hood, trunk open/closed/locked/unlocked], SOS/emergency services, and in car WiFi if activated. While most likely not much of a factor some cellular phone plan have discounted add-on prices for in car WiFi if you plan on activating it. Although there isn't much difference in coverage areas now-a-days between AT&T and Verizon, some differences still exist so in the rare case where you may have a choice in cellular data service provider coverage areas might be a factor for consideration.
A pretty minor item but still somewhat of an annoyance, the 2019 model year does not have auto update of daylight saving time whereas the 2021 model year does have auto update.
Is it possible to change the data provider? Is there a SIM card inside that can be replaced?
10-12-21, 08:04 AM
#60
Lexus Test Driver
Seems to be a case-to-case scenario the more I look into it. Guess the only way to find out would be to test drive it and check it out for myself.
Just came across this:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...76288-9999.pdf
Seems they issued a TSB for the 2019 model years with the base system. So maybe they fixed the issue? But yeah, probably best to just check it out for myself since it seems everyone is so divided on this issue.
Just came across this:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...76288-9999.pdf
Seems they issued a TSB for the 2019 model years with the base system. So maybe they fixed the issue? But yeah, probably best to just check it out for myself since it seems everyone is so divided on this issue.
Oh well.