ES 300h 2023
08-26-22, 03:29 PM
#61
Instructor
After 1 dealer stated he was told it would be February I had a call from local dealer in US that said their was one at the port and be at dealer in about 2 weeks. He also sent me info for this car that shows it does have wireless android auto even though everything I have read previous said it would be wired only. This goes to show you that until it is produced nobody knows full specs.
08-27-22, 06:57 AM
#62
As a new Lexus customer, it makes me sad they plan to go all EV in 2030. I have really enjoyed our two “old school” Lexuses. I have less than zero desire for an EV, and will never buy one. I will be forced to keep my ES running for a long time, or find a car company that isn’t falling for the EV bandwagon nonsense.
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LS500Fan (08-27-22)
08-27-22, 07:17 AM
#63
Will there be hybrids after 2030?
08-27-22, 07:27 AM
#64
As a new Lexus customer, it makes me sad they plan to go all EV in 2030. I have really enjoyed our two “old school” Lexuses. I have less than zero desire for an EV, and will never buy one. I will be forced to keep my ES running for a long time, or find a car company that isn’t falling for the EV bandwagon nonsense.
I have never driven an EV though I have ridden in a few Tesla Ubers. While I think they were as ugly as they come, it was no better or worse than riding in an ICE vehicle. EV's do have some assets over ICE cars in term of immediate torque, very rapid acceleration (too rapid for street use in some cases already, IMO), and utter silence, though this latter is also a negative as the sound of a good engine (not a turbo-4 vacuum cleaner sound) can be a delight in the right circumstances, and likely lower maintenance costs. Yes, battery replacement after a decade or so remains an issue to be resolved, but I believe it will be eventually; it almost has to be.
The world does not remain static, and if most or all car manufacturers eventually go electric in the coming years, what will you do? Old ICE cars will be around for a very long time, but eventually they will not be worth the maintenance/repair effort for the overwhelming majority of people. My 2020 ES350 is a joy to drive and I chose not to get the hybrid, though I dd consider it. But I realize that my next car probably will be at least a hybrid if not full electric. So, again, why the forever resistance? Just curious.
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08-27-22, 08:05 AM
#65
Despite a number of legitimate reasons at the present time, like range issues and the problems associated with charging if one doesn't live in a place with a garage or private charging spot, what is exactly is so inherently wrong with an EV? When I read someone say that they "will never buy one" I have to wonder if this is based on actual assessment of their state in 2022 (ignoring what improvements will be made by 2030) or is it tinged with politics and not wanting to be associated with "green" thinking and all that oddly represents to some people? How many horse owners said they would never buy one of them new fangled gas cars?
I have never driven an EV though I have ridden in a few Tesla Ubers. While I think they were as ugly as they come, it was no better or worse than riding in an ICE vehicle. EV's do have some assets over ICE cars in term of immediate torque, very rapid acceleration (too rapid for street use in some cases already, IMO), and utter silence, though this latter is also a negative as the sound of a good engine (not a turbo-4 vacuum cleaner sound) can be a delight in the right circumstances, and likely lower maintenance costs. Yes, battery replacement after a decade or so remains an issue to be resolved, but I believe it will be eventually; it almost has to be.
The world does not remain static, and if most or all car manufacturers eventually go electric in the coming years, what will you do? Old ICE cars will be around for a very long time, but eventually they will not be worth the maintenance/repair effort for the overwhelming majority of people. My 2020 ES350 is a joy to drive and I chose not to get the hybrid, though I dd consider it. But I realize that my next car probably will be at least a hybrid if not full electric. So, again, why the forever resistance? Just curious.
I have never driven an EV though I have ridden in a few Tesla Ubers. While I think they were as ugly as they come, it was no better or worse than riding in an ICE vehicle. EV's do have some assets over ICE cars in term of immediate torque, very rapid acceleration (too rapid for street use in some cases already, IMO), and utter silence, though this latter is also a negative as the sound of a good engine (not a turbo-4 vacuum cleaner sound) can be a delight in the right circumstances, and likely lower maintenance costs. Yes, battery replacement after a decade or so remains an issue to be resolved, but I believe it will be eventually; it almost has to be.
The world does not remain static, and if most or all car manufacturers eventually go electric in the coming years, what will you do? Old ICE cars will be around for a very long time, but eventually they will not be worth the maintenance/repair effort for the overwhelming majority of people. My 2020 ES350 is a joy to drive and I chose not to get the hybrid, though I dd consider it. But I realize that my next car probably will be at least a hybrid if not full electric. So, again, why the forever resistance? Just curious.
Growing up, I was completely against hybrids, now I own a 2022 ES 300h. I had driven early model hybrids and they were just not enjoyable in any way. I got a chance to test out generations of hybrids, just out of curiosity, but never walked away impressed. However, the technology, and Toyota being the best hybrid system available, has improved so much and it's a completely refined vehicle. The driving dynamics of the ES has also changed over the years to a more compliant and "sportier" feel (which I know many don't like, but I certainly do). I never thought I'd ever consider a hybrid (especially an ES), let alone owning one, then what happened? Time. Over time my priorities in terms of what I wanted out of my daily driver changed. I went from a young adult wanting at minimum a V6, sportier driving dynamics, and a respectable 0-60. Now, 10 years later; I want comfort, refinement, reliability, cheaper maintenance, and a vehicle I could see myself driving for the next 10 years. I've spent 3 months and 4500 miles in my 300h F Sport, and I've enjoyed every single mile and every single penny I've saved at the pump.
EVs were highly considered as well during my initial time of searching for a new vehicle. My biggest concern with EVs was range. Realistically, the range of even a standard Model 3 would've sufficed, but I am not comfortable making further trips out. Charging networks are everywhere, especially here in CA, but it's just too much planning that has to go into a day trip even. Did I remember to plug in the car? Does it have enough range for the round trip? What charging station can I stop by? And especially around here, is someone going to attempt a smash and grab?
I found going the hybrid route was the best option for me. It gives me the insane driving range, low maintenance costs, ability to still maintain my own car, and save me a good chunk of money. It's quiet, extremely comfortable, has better driving dynamics than my previous daily driver, twice as efficient in mpg, and will require far less maintenance over the same amount of time/mileage. It's even reduced my stress during the heavy commute hours because it basically becomes silent in EV mode, I know I'm not spending a ton of gas crawling along traffic or at a stop, and it's even a bit fun trying to keep the car in EV mode to watch that average mpg go up (kind of like a videogame).
The world and people, especially yourself, do not remain static. Drop your bias and give it a shot, and if it's still not for you then there are going to be options available still, even if it is old technology. However, like any technology, with each new generation it improves. I finally jumped ship and am completely happy with my decision, it just took until Toyota's 4th generation hybrid system.
Last edited by dezymond; 08-27-22 at 08:08 AM.
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08-27-22, 08:52 AM
#66
Intermediate
I find myself in almost the exact same position as dezymond, with a couple of major exceptions, we live in the upper midwest, where virtually no infrastructure exists to supports EV's, or easily charging, and we have winter, which cuts the already slim EV range by roughly 1/3-1/2 for several months of the year. Consequently, I think the Hybrid is the solution for us right now. My dad who died at 88 years old, bought a brand new red 2006 Prius, and drove it until he died, just a couple of years ago, never had any issues at all with it, and one of my nieces is still driving it, 16 years later.
I think you've made some excellent points. With new technology comes resistance and usually the ones resisting tend to be the loudest.
Growing up, I was completely against hybrids, now I own a 2022 ES 300h. I had driven early model hybrids and they were just not enjoyable in any way. I got a chance to test out generations of hybrids, just out of curiosity, but never walked away impressed. However, the technology, and Toyota being the best hybrid system available, has improved so much and it's a completely refined vehicle. The driving dynamics of the ES has also changed over the years to a more compliant and "sportier" feel (which I know many don't like, but I certainly do). I never thought I'd ever consider a hybrid (especially an ES), let alone owning one, then what happened? Time. Over time my priorities in terms of what I wanted out of my daily driver changed. I went from a young adult wanting at minimum a V6, sportier driving dynamics, and a respectable 0-60. Now, 10 years later; I want comfort, refinement, reliability, cheaper maintenance, and a vehicle I could see myself driving for the next 10 years. I've spent 3 months and 4500 miles in my 300h F Sport, and I've enjoyed every single mile and every single penny I've saved at the pump.
EVs were highly considered as well during my initial time of searching for a new vehicle. My biggest concern with EVs was range. Realistically, the range of even a standard Model 3 would've sufficed, but I am not comfortable making further trips out. Charging networks are everywhere, especially here in CA, but it's just too much planning that has to go into a day trip even. Did I remember to plug in the car? Does it have enough range for the round trip? What charging station can I stop by? And especially around here, is someone going to attempt a smash and grab?
I found going the hybrid route was the best option for me. It gives me the insane driving range, low maintenance costs, ability to still maintain my own car, and save me a good chunk of money. It's quiet, extremely comfortable, has better driving dynamics than my previous daily driver, twice as efficient in mpg, and will require far less maintenance over the same amount of time/mileage. It's even reduced my stress during the heavy commute hours because it basically becomes silent in EV mode, I know I'm not spending a ton of gas crawling along traffic or at a stop, and it's even a bit fun trying to keep the car in EV mode to watch that average mpg go up (kind of like a videogame).
The world and people, especially yourself, do not remain static. Drop your bias and give it a shot, and if it's still not for you then there are going to be options available still, even if it is old technology. However, like any technology, with each new generation it improves. I finally jumped ship and am completely happy with my decision, it just took until Toyota's 4th generation hybrid system.
Growing up, I was completely against hybrids, now I own a 2022 ES 300h. I had driven early model hybrids and they were just not enjoyable in any way. I got a chance to test out generations of hybrids, just out of curiosity, but never walked away impressed. However, the technology, and Toyota being the best hybrid system available, has improved so much and it's a completely refined vehicle. The driving dynamics of the ES has also changed over the years to a more compliant and "sportier" feel (which I know many don't like, but I certainly do). I never thought I'd ever consider a hybrid (especially an ES), let alone owning one, then what happened? Time. Over time my priorities in terms of what I wanted out of my daily driver changed. I went from a young adult wanting at minimum a V6, sportier driving dynamics, and a respectable 0-60. Now, 10 years later; I want comfort, refinement, reliability, cheaper maintenance, and a vehicle I could see myself driving for the next 10 years. I've spent 3 months and 4500 miles in my 300h F Sport, and I've enjoyed every single mile and every single penny I've saved at the pump.
EVs were highly considered as well during my initial time of searching for a new vehicle. My biggest concern with EVs was range. Realistically, the range of even a standard Model 3 would've sufficed, but I am not comfortable making further trips out. Charging networks are everywhere, especially here in CA, but it's just too much planning that has to go into a day trip even. Did I remember to plug in the car? Does it have enough range for the round trip? What charging station can I stop by? And especially around here, is someone going to attempt a smash and grab?
I found going the hybrid route was the best option for me. It gives me the insane driving range, low maintenance costs, ability to still maintain my own car, and save me a good chunk of money. It's quiet, extremely comfortable, has better driving dynamics than my previous daily driver, twice as efficient in mpg, and will require far less maintenance over the same amount of time/mileage. It's even reduced my stress during the heavy commute hours because it basically becomes silent in EV mode, I know I'm not spending a ton of gas crawling along traffic or at a stop, and it's even a bit fun trying to keep the car in EV mode to watch that average mpg go up (kind of like a videogame).
The world and people, especially yourself, do not remain static. Drop your bias and give it a shot, and if it's still not for you then there are going to be options available still, even if it is old technology. However, like any technology, with each new generation it improves. I finally jumped ship and am completely happy with my decision, it just took until Toyota's 4th generation hybrid system.
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08-27-22, 11:33 AM
#67
Pit Crew
As I was waiting at my local dealer for service this week I noticed they moved the Lexus Covenant to the entrance of their service department:
The Lexus Covenant guides every decision we make, every car we create, every service we provide. It promises the individual attention and sincere consideration that make Lexus a benchmark of customer satisfaction in the auto industry and beyond.
The Lexus Covenant was established well before we opened our doors for business in 1989. Still today, around the world, it secures the commitment to excellence from everyone at Lexus.
They may be committed to excellence in 2022 but it is not showing.
The Lexus Covenant guides every decision we make, every car we create, every service we provide. It promises the individual attention and sincere consideration that make Lexus a benchmark of customer satisfaction in the auto industry and beyond.
The Lexus Covenant was established well before we opened our doors for business in 1989. Still today, around the world, it secures the commitment to excellence from everyone at Lexus.
They may be committed to excellence in 2022 but it is not showing.
08-27-22, 12:36 PM
#68
Despite a number of legitimate reasons at the present time, like range issues and the problems associated with charging if one doesn't live in a place with a garage or private charging spot, what is exactly is so inherently wrong with an EV? When I read someone say that they "will never buy one" I have to wonder if this is based on actual assessment of their state in 2022 (ignoring what improvements will be made by 2030) or is it tinged with politics and not wanting to be associated with "green" thinking and all that oddly represents to some people? How many horse owners said they would never buy one of them new fangled gas cars?
I have never driven an EV though I have ridden in a few Tesla Ubers. While I think they were as ugly as they come, it was no better or worse than riding in an ICE vehicle. EV's do have some assets over ICE cars in term of immediate torque, very rapid acceleration (too rapid for street use in some cases already, IMO), and utter silence, though this latter is also a negative as the sound of a good engine (not a turbo-4 vacuum cleaner sound) can be a delight in the right circumstances, and likely lower maintenance costs. Yes, battery replacement after a decade or so remains an issue to be resolved, but I believe it will be eventually; it almost has to be.
The world does not remain static, and if most or all car manufacturers eventually go electric in the coming years, what will you do? Old ICE cars will be around for a very long time, but eventually they will not be worth the maintenance/repair effort for the overwhelming majority of people. My 2020 ES350 is a joy to drive and I chose not to get the hybrid, though I dd consider it. But I realize that my next car probably will be at least a hybrid if not full electric. So, again, why the forever resistance? Just curious.
I have never driven an EV though I have ridden in a few Tesla Ubers. While I think they were as ugly as they come, it was no better or worse than riding in an ICE vehicle. EV's do have some assets over ICE cars in term of immediate torque, very rapid acceleration (too rapid for street use in some cases already, IMO), and utter silence, though this latter is also a negative as the sound of a good engine (not a turbo-4 vacuum cleaner sound) can be a delight in the right circumstances, and likely lower maintenance costs. Yes, battery replacement after a decade or so remains an issue to be resolved, but I believe it will be eventually; it almost has to be.
The world does not remain static, and if most or all car manufacturers eventually go electric in the coming years, what will you do? Old ICE cars will be around for a very long time, but eventually they will not be worth the maintenance/repair effort for the overwhelming majority of people. My 2020 ES350 is a joy to drive and I chose not to get the hybrid, though I dd consider it. But I realize that my next car probably will be at least a hybrid if not full electric. So, again, why the forever resistance? Just curious.
I will not own an EV, because I enjoy driving, and the visceral feedback from a good gas powered car. An electric Miata will never have the driving enjoyment that a gas powered one has, for example. Manual transmissions, the noises a V8 makes, cannot be replaced by an EV, no matter how fast it is. It is that simple.
As far as the political element, I do not believe EV’s are green, nor the answer to a problem I don’t believe exists, but that is not an appropriate discussion for this forum. I am not here to argue with anyone, I just believe the government should let the free market decide.
08-27-22, 02:10 PM
#69
Pit Crew
I will not own an EV, because I enjoy driving, and the visceral feedback from a good gas powered car. An electric Miata will never have the driving enjoyment that a gas powered one has, for example. Manual transmissions, the noises a V8 makes, cannot be replaced by an EV, no matter how fast it is. It is that simple.
As far as the political element, I do not believe EV’s are green, nor the answer to a problem I don’t believe exists, but that is not an appropriate discussion for this forum. I am not here to argue with anyone, I just believe the government should let the free market decide.
As far as the political element, I do not believe EV’s are green, nor the answer to a problem I don’t believe exists, but that is not an appropriate discussion for this forum. I am not here to argue with anyone, I just believe the government should let the free market decide.
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08-27-22, 05:27 PM
#70
Never. You don’t know, what you don’t know. Show me an EV that replicates the joy of downshifting, of rev matching, heel and toeing, the intoxicating sounds of a V8, or a flat 6 at full song? But, I do not want to restrict you from having an EV if that is what you want. Let the market decide, not the .gov
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08-27-22, 09:41 PM
#71
Never. You don’t know, what you don’t know. Show me an EV that replicates the joy of downshifting, of rev matching, heel and toeing, the intoxicating sounds of a V8, or a flat 6 at full song? But, I do not want to restrict you from having an EV if that is what you want. Let the market decide, not the .gov
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08-28-22, 08:51 AM
#72
Never. You don’t know, what you don’t know. Show me an EV that replicates the joy of downshifting, of rev matching, heel and toeing, the intoxicating sounds of a V8, or a flat 6 at full song? But, I do not want to restrict you from having an EV if that is what you want. Let the market decide, not the .gov
If you're coming from the perspective as a fun/weekend car then I get it. However, I also believe an EV makes sense as a daily driver for majority of people.
While you are correct (and firm) in your stance of "you don't know, what you don't know", I would say try to broaden your horizons. Times have changed and standards have changed, much like how the car industry has been it's whole life, and it will continue to change.
If you don't want an EV now, I get it. I didn't want a hybrid for 15 years of my driving life, and now I own one and am quite happy with it. Maybe you'll change your mind, maybe you won't. Regardless of what you decide on, the industry moves on. I do love me the thrills of a performance ICE car, but we all know that those cars are going the way of the dodo.
Last edited by dezymond; 08-28-22 at 08:54 AM.
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08-28-22, 09:49 AM
#73
Pit Crew
Never. You don’t know, what you don’t know. Show me an EV that replicates the joy of downshifting, of rev matching, heel and toeing, the intoxicating sounds of a V8, or a flat 6 at full song? But, I do not want to restrict you from having an EV if that is what you want. Let the market decide, not the .gov
08-28-22, 09:51 AM
#74
"Lexus has announced a plan to go full battery-electric in North America, Europe and China by the year 2030, followed by a full global switch to EV by 2035." What will you do when Lexus stops making new gas-powered vehicles?
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08-28-22, 10:54 AM
#75
Pit Crew