patekwis

Hello all,

Introduction

As many of you know, I am one of many ES350/Camry owners with a V6 that has been experiencing tranny issues. Today, I decided to go out and buy a dash mount and tape the weird transmission behavior once and for all to see if maybe that could shine a light on it (or maybe not).

The transmission issues are many, but generally it seems to be hunting for gears, trying to shift way too much, and just otherwise clunky.

Low Speed Jerk out of 1st

A big fault for me is in rush hour driving. While lightly on the gas (consistently, NOT pressing down further to accelerate quickly - essentially my foot doesn't move before or after the gear shift), then car switches the first gear and then lurches forward (i.e., a jerk). The 2022 F Sport loaner did not do this and my dealer has been saying I'm crazy and that it is because I am a different type of driver. Obviously, that is non-sense, but I wanted to get some proof.

I am hoping that the RPM behavior is somewhat different than those who do not have the same issue and, if so, I would greatly appreciate any feedback so I can go back to the dealer and show them this recording.

Other Ramblings

I am also wondering if there is a fuel pump issue since you can see my gas mileage is also terrible. I know 2019 had a recall but not 2020...

I want to note that I also, at 06:10, caught an instance where I let my foot off the gas and then the car felt like it was about to stall. Would also like feedback on that one too if possible.

The Video

Here are the notable time stamps (I spent a bit of time trying to search out a quiet place to test drive this thing):

00:00 - Start
04:02 - Lurch/jerk in normal mode
05:10 - Lurch/jerk in normal mode
06:10 - Letting foot off gas and the revs feeling like it is stalling
18:40 - Lurch/jerk in sport mode
19:15 - Lurch/jerk in sport mode
19:45 - Lurch/jerk in sport mode
20:30 - Lurch/jerk in normal mode
21:04 - Lurch/jerk in sport mode
21:18 - Letting foot off gas and resulting jerk

You Tube

BBQapple

I watched a while of that including some of the time stamped jerks but unfortunately for me the viewer it’s impossible to see, hear, or otherwise verify the jerking behavior.

An accelerometer recording the fore-aft shock during gear changes on your car then another under the same conditions could tell the tale, but still you’d need to convince the dealership and Lexus. Or a courtroom.

patekwis

The purpose of this video was not to convince anyone that there is a jerk, you'll just have to take my word for it.

What I am trying to display is the RPM behavior as a result of the jerk, and enquire whether this is the same RPM behavior of people who don't experience the jerk under the same conditions, so that maybe this could shed light onto the issue

dklanecky1

I watched the whole thing and in general, I don't see what you say your seeing/feeling. I will also admit, I never in 4 1/2 years of owning my 2019 V6, watched the shifting behaviour and tachometer movement anywhere as closely as you have. I believe the 8 speed is programmed to get into ECO mode as fast as it can, and consequently with 8 gears to choose from, it's jumping around trying to find the "best" gear for the exact moment, all the time. I think your going to have to film better proof of what your feeling to get anywhere with this issue with the dealer or with a court if that's the direction your heading.

BBQApple's suggestion is probably the only way you'll be able to document the issue so that anyone can see what your feeling.

BBQapple

Ahh im an idiot I missed that part!

I wasn’t meaning I didn’t believe you by the way, I do.

patekwis

While I appreciate the response, again, I am just looking for people who can see whether their RPM gauge behaves differently under the same conditions.

For example, around 06:10 (start at 06:00) you can clearly see the RPMs flutter when i take my foot off the gas.

I am looking to see if these jerks or stutters are normal.

I, as well, never paid attention to RPMs in a car as closely as I have with this very irritating issue, but I am trying to diagnose after going to the dealer several times without results.


All good!

mikemu30

I may try this in my wife's RX just out of curiosity- the RX has an 8 speed as well but a different unit I guess which is very smooth shifting up and down. I mainly notice the jerkiness in my ES approaching a stop sign. If you don't come to a complete stop and sort of glide through it (I know but we all do it before any comments about that), you can't miss the lurch or whatever you want to call it. I've said many times now after four plus years of ownership, I'm quite used to it and it really doesn't bug me any longer.

patekwis

I experience the downshift jerk too, and I am prepared to live with it.

The two issues that are more irritating, to me anyway, are (i): the upshift from 1st at very, very slow speed and RPM and (ii) letting my foot off the gas which results in a weird, almost stalling, type of jerk (see 06:10).

With respect to (i) - rush hour traffic, speeding up slowing down is constant. So too is creeping up higher in RPMs. The way this thing shifts, it jerks right out of first then I have to slow down and repeat.

After 30 minutes of rush hour traffic, I am ready to drive this thing into a wall since it’s just constant jerk out of first gear then slow down and repeat.

mikemu30

Most of my miles with the ES are freeway, very little stop and go. I will in fact try letting my foot off the accelerator to see if it replicates the rpm behavior you have. I've never noticed that one but doesn't mean it doesn't behave like that as well. End of the day, if I did lots of stop and go, it wouldn't be with this model.

ESh

Any TSB released for this?

patekwis

There was a TSB for the Camry, which apparently solved the issue if the dealer does it correctly. However, that is for the 4 cylinder variants; the 6 cylinders are SOL.

No TSB for Lexus, as far as I am aware.

The "letting the foot off the gas" issue only occurs once in a while and I think it is when it is about to shift or at a certain point in the tranny's logic, then you let off the gas, it kind of stutters. In my video, you can clearly see the needle flutter rapidly which makes sense given the 'stalling-like' sensation that accompanies it.

Like you, I do not have issues on the highway. The car is a fine highway cruiser, just a poor performer in the city.

CJS57

I have the low speed jerk and the stop sign jerk as well.

mikemu30

So I did some observation on my drive to work this morning. Letting up on the throttle during highway cruising didn't seem to impact RPM or create any jerky motion in any way on level ground. On an incline, you may hit a downshift coincidentally around that time but that's normal operation. I also noticed that around speeds in low 60s, the trans doesn't spend much time in 8th gear. Once I was 65 MPH or higher and on level terrain, it went into 8th. The movements between 7th and 8th are not really noticeable while driving unless you're really paying attention - pretty seamless. And even while in 8th, the slightest incline caused a downshift to 7 pretty much all the time. I observed this by moving the MID to the "GEAR POSITION" screen which previously, I've almost never watched before. For those with the FSport cluster, that screen is one down from the tire pressure screen. Not sure on the non FSport where that gets displayed. End of day, highway cruising presents no real issues for the transmission and quite candidly, I've learned to manage through the annoyances presented with city driving which I don't' do much of anyway.

kingofire

First thing I'd do is change the transmission fluid and reprogram the ECU. There are a few people that have noted that some Lexus come from the factory with the transmission not fully filled with the WS fluid which can hamper the shifts. Just my $0.02.

hotwings

I agree completely.
I would find another Lexus dealer (hopefully a more helpful one) and have a technician take it out for a test drive first. Yes very inconvenient, but may get some resolution.
There are posts all over the web for the ES350/Avalon w/8 speed, many with zero complaints, others with the identical complaint as the OP.