SW17LS

None of that matters. You are making it about what he did or what he "deserves" and thats not why the court struck down the plan. It struck down the plan because it found that the BOD was not sufficiently independent of Musk, and that he defacto controlled the board and the shareholders were "sold" a compensation plan by Musk through the BOD without disclosure of salient information. That is illegal.

He could be Jesus Christ and if he controlled the BOD and used them as a tool for his own purposes instead of them being an independent body that represents the company and the shareholders that would still be illegal.

Musk and his camp want to make it about what he earned, when what its about is whether or not the BOD negotiated with Musk as fiduciaries of Tesla or as his self appointed cronies that he in fact controlled. He has a long history of behavior that is disloyal to Tesla that would have gotten any other CEO dismissed (redirecting those chips to Twitter is just the latest thing).

jrmckinley

I have not once said anything about his compensation or the pending case. I am replying to the comment that he has not driven shareholder value. I have a hard time watching a stock go up 13,000 x your investment amount in 12 years and then say the CEO is not driving shareholder value. For my comments, and mine alone, they have nothing to do with him asking for money. It's the contradiction that he has not driven shareholder value. Completely separated from what any of us believe he should earn in said time period.

swajames

Yep. Reminds me of the twitter manager who posted about sleeping in the office in the all hands to the pump post-acquisition malaise.

He fired her anyway.

swajames

The point being missed is it’s all relative to the ~$40bn to $50bn pay package he wants to pay himself.

SW17LS

I think he unquestionably has driven shareholder value. That doesn't mean this compensation arrangement wasn't illegal. Its not a question of what anybody thinks he should or shouldn't earn.

AMIRZA786

There are so many moving goal posts here, I'm getting dizzy. People don't like Elon here, I get it he's a polarizing figure. If you are a Tesla shareholder and believe Elon is mismanaging Tesla the company and harming shareholders, then vote against his compensation package, or better yet, sue him if shareholders vote in the positive for it

SW17LS

I am voting no. Its not about liking or disliking Elon, its about making a decision that is the healthy decision for the company...the company is not right now in a position to shoulder this burden, and I firmly believe the court was right in finding that the BOD lacks independence from Elon and that niether they, nor he have the company's best interests at the forefront of what they are doing.

The fallacy is what you are saying, a no vote doesn't mean you don't like Elon. I know you are considering voting no because you told me that, you clearly don't dislike Elon. I think Elon is a pretty despicable person, and I think he's a narcissist, but he is brilliant. No doubt. I also believe his time at Tesla has likely run its course.

I promise all of you that Tesla will survive with or without Elon. Think about what the company could achieve without the time spent managing him or arguing over this pay package?

jrmckinley

Perhaps I did not read back far enough in the thread, as I was responding to comments about creating shareholder value and unaware that this is what everyone is talking about.

If the convo is currently about his pay package, I will bow out as it's not something I have been following closely enough to care or talk about.

AMIRZA786

That's your right as a shareholder, I'm not going to question it. You have to do what you think is best for your investment

AMIRZA786

Smart man . People who are investors have to do what's best for their investment, which is why I also stayed pretty much out of that discussion myself

jrmckinley

Nah, probably not so smart actually given I'm a share holder. I feel like I should be better educated on the subject but I'm not. I have not made the time to read and research it enough to come up with an opinion. I haven't watched the news in 4 years and I pick and choose what I consume and this hasn't been one of the things I've dedicated myself to learning about. If I'm not educated on something enough to comment (or contribute), it's best for me to sit out or on the sidelines. But I genuinely wish I had spent more time researching the issue at hand.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

really? no surprise there.

neither was steve jobs, but musk and jobs weren't there to be engineers. they were there to lead and make a vision happen. both had their ups and downs, and both were immensely successful and to many they were intensely disliked as well as adored/revered.

everyone's 'pay package' will bother someone. you've repeatedly talked casuallly about 500k software engineer salaries in your area, not to mention many other VERY lavish perks, which many others would also be 'immensely bothered' by.

how do you know this? seems like some huge shareholders plan to vote no. ironic as many huge 'funds' are insanely greedy and basically contribute nothing to the world.

exactly, another false strawman.

100% true and agreed.

no one said that, so again false strawman and unprovable hypothetcial (that someone else could have done it). it's not possible to know if someone else could have done it, but it wouldn't have been in the same way. would electric cars have happened as quickly without his relentless push? i highly doubt it, but they would have happened eventually. again, like jobs with the ipod then the iphone and ipad or edison with endless failures... it takes a kind of single-focused madness (that drives others crazy in the process) to push relentless to make new things happen.

swajames

Well you don’t hold posters claiming that only Musk could have done what he did at Tesla to that same standard, so I’ll have to assume (as I would have anyway) that intellectual honesty probably wasn’t the motivation for your post.

I genuinely thought I’d seen peak sycophancy when we saw that insane post a few weeks ago describing Musk as “the greatest allocator of capital in history” but I think we’ve seen even that lofty bar exceeded today.

AMIRZA786

You seem to be taking this personally. I was just about to post that's it great that although we all have differing views on Musk's impact on Tesla, we've kept it pretty civil. But after reading this post, I had to pull back a bit. This sounds like something I would read in the Polestar forum, which is why I rarely post there anymore. Your post here is pretty close to being insulting

swajames

Quite ironic, as I wasn’t replying to you. My observations are in reply to bitkahuna’s post. And they’re correct.