General EV Conversation
#1696
Lexus Fanatic
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Sure, but you’re not going to walk in and just say “I’ll take it for $60k” and drive off with it. As somebody who is shopping for a car right now let me tell you, those days are gone.
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AMIRZA786 (02-18-24)
#1697
Lexus Champion
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This is one of the unintended consequences of market intervention with the artificial carbon credit market. ICE manufacturers literally funded Tesla's dominance. The thumb was put too heavily on Tesla's side of the scale, and now ICE manufacturers can't be profitable and compete.
Dealers trying to mark them up $20K didn't help either.
Dealers trying to mark them up $20K didn't help either.
Once prices start coming down and better charging becomes available, you'll start to see people on the fence coming down. Then the curious. In most cases, all it takes is a test drive. I'll bet every penny on that.
Dealership markups not being helpful is an understatement
#1698
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Personally, I wouldn't touch a new 2023 that has been sitting around on a lot forever. Not sure I would trust that there wasn't a negative impact on the battery.
#1699
Lexus Fanatic
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No reason to be concerned about any car sitting, especially an EV. That just says savings to me.
#1700
Lexus Champion
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Almost 4000 new 2023 units siting on lots right now. And in transit or being built isn't an excuse for those. They aren't building or transporting new 2023 model anymore.
Personally, I wouldn't touch a new 2023 that has been sitting around on a lot forever. Not sure I would trust that there wasn't a negative impact on the battery.
Personally, I wouldn't touch a new 2023 that has been sitting around on a lot forever. Not sure I would trust that there wasn't a negative impact on the battery.
#1701
Lexus Fanatic
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and norway has about the population of s. carolina while sending vast amounts of gas and oil elsewhere. so their clean efforts mean little globally.
#1703
Lexus Champion
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sure, i would too, but the hypocrisy is in selling 'dirty fuel' to others to enable virtue-signalling for 'clean transportation' at home. it may make you feel good but you're not really solving the problem.
and norway has about the population of s. carolina while sending vast amounts of gas and oil elsewhere. so their clean efforts mean little globally.
and norway has about the population of s. carolina while sending vast amounts of gas and oil elsewhere. so their clean efforts mean little globally.
Has Norway ever claimed that they are trying to solve the world's pollution problems? Educate me
#1704
Lexus Fanatic
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This is one of the unintended consequences of market intervention with the artificial carbon credit market. ICE manufacturers literally funded Tesla's dominance. The thumb was put too heavily on Tesla's side of the scale, and now ICE manufacturers can't be profitable and compete.
Dealers trying to mark them up $20K didn't help either.
Dealers trying to mark them up $20K didn't help either.
BTW, the claim that hydro is "saving trillions" is nonsense here is the cost per energy unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...city_by_source
Solar + battery storage is much better.
#1705
Lexus Champion
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It's better the adoption is slow and steady, a sudden explosion of EV's on the road, which happened in 2022 can be disastrous. Especially for non Tesla owners who find themselves with lots of issues with sub par Fast charging.
Yes, the Model Y and 3 are the best selling cars in California, but collectively Toyota and other automakers sell more gasoline, hybrid and PHEV than Tesla, or any other EV
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TriC (02-19-24)
#1706
Lexus Fanatic
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Toyota has about 16 models, or over 50 if you count the variations on their website. That's just in North America. They are produced in ~30 factories around the world and sold in just about every market. That is a whole lot of momentum.
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AMIRZA786 (02-18-24)
#1707
Lexus Champion
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On top of that, had Toyota not killed off the RAV4 EV, (which was very popular here), and continued to develop EV'S, Toyota would be dominating the BEV market. Toyota loyalists would have been eating them up. Being a former one myself, I would state my reputation on it. But hindsight as they say, is 20/20
#1708
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If other auto makers had shown foresight and jumped into EVs early as Tesla did, and put in the hard work to reach scale, they would have also also benefited from carbon credits.
BTW, the claim that hydro is "saving trillions" is nonsense here is the cost per energy unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...city_by_source
Solar + battery storage is much better.
BTW, the claim that hydro is "saving trillions" is nonsense here is the cost per energy unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...city_by_source
Solar + battery storage is much better.
But no, it wasn't as easy as you state for existing manufacturers to just "jump into EVs" like Tesla did. They still had to provide the ICE cars we needed and were penalized for it. I'm sure they would have rather put those billions they had to pay Tesla to develop EVs into their own EV programs. That is why Tesla is so dominant. The taxpayer subsidized the price of their cars, and other manufacturers subsidized their R&D. 100% of Tesla's focus was on EVs, and they had everybody throwing money at them to do it, including the people they were competing against. Not the case for traditional manufacturers and there was no way it could have been.
Last edited by Bob04; 02-18-24 at 08:47 PM.
#1709
Lexus Fanatic
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But no, it wasn't as easy as you state for existing manufacturers to just "jump into EVs" like Tesla did. They still had to provide the ICE cars we needed and were penalized for it. I'm sure they would have rather put those billions they had to pay Tesla to develop EVs into their own EV programs. That is why Tesla is so dominant. The taxpayer subsidized the price of their cars, and other manufacturers subsidized their R&D. 100% of Tesla's focus was on EVs, and they had everybody throwing money at them to do it, including the people they were competing against. Not the case for traditional manufacturers and there was no way it could have been.
You'll say absolutely anything except give Tesla credit.
To this specifically
That is why Tesla is so dominant.
#1710
Lexus Champion
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Maybe not 60k OTD but I'm pretty confident a consumer armed with the right information and who can negotiate could easily lop a huge amount off of a Lightning.