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Old 02-19-24, 05:22 AM
  #1711  
jrmckinley
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Originally Posted by AJT123
Even though they're losing a massive amount on each one? Ford loses $36,000 on every EV.

Maybe not 60k OTD but I'm pretty confident a consumer armed with the right information and who can negotiate could easily lop a huge amount off of a Lightning.
But you aren't buying it from Ford, you're buying it from a dealer. The truck sitting on the lot has already been sold off of Ford's books, it now sits on the dealer's books.
Old 02-19-24, 05:27 AM
  #1712  
AJT123
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Originally Posted by jrmckinley
But you aren't buying it from Ford, you're buying it from a dealer. The truck sitting on the lot has already been sold off of Ford's books, it now sits on the dealer's books.
Ahh, yes good point.

That said, Lightnings sit on lots wayyyyy longer than the gas F-150s. Many of the dealers overstocked.
Old 02-19-24, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
BTW, the claim that hydro is "saving trillions" is nonsense here is the cost per energy unit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...city_by_source
i'll see you, and raise.

hydro is expensive to build but is still the cheapest and most reliable clean electricity.

comparing 2010 and 2019 here...


https://www.c2es.org/content/renewable-energy/

new ocean 'kite' power looks very promising too.

Solar + battery storage is much better.
in sunny places (like florida ) maybe, but even then battery needs for utility scale are insane.

Last edited by bitkahuna; 02-19-24 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 02-19-24, 05:54 AM
  #1714  
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Originally Posted by AJT123
Ahh, yes good point.

That said, Lightnings sit on lots wayyyyy longer than the gas F-150s. Many of the dealers overstocked.
"Car Dealership Guy" on Twitter/X posted last week that several Ford dealers are telling him they're hearing price cuts are coming to the Lightning. Historically when he has posted things like that he's been right.
Old 02-19-24, 06:29 AM
  #1715  
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Originally Posted by jrmckinley
"Car Dealership Guy" on Twitter/X posted last week that several Ford dealers are telling him they're hearing price cuts are coming to the Lightning. Historically when he has posted things like that he's been right.
Lol, hence why my original comment was that you could probably get a $75k truck for $60k.

I wouldn't be surprised if dealers are dumping them at or near wholesale.
Old 02-19-24, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AJT123
Even though they're losing a massive amount on each one? Ford loses $36,000 on every EV.

Maybe not 60k OTD but I'm pretty confident a consumer armed with the right information and who can negotiate could easily lop a huge amount off of a Lightning.
The dealership isn't losing $36,000 on each Lightning. You're negotiating with the dealership, not Ford.

Originally Posted by AJT123
I wouldn't be surprised if dealers are dumping them at or near wholesale.
Talk to dealers, they aren't.
Old 02-19-24, 07:49 AM
  #1717  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
The dealership isn't losing $36,000 on each Lightning. You're negotiating with the dealership, not Ford.
Talk to dealers, they aren't.
I guess. You save $12,500 (not including tax credit) right off the bat of a MB electric vehicle at the dealer here. Plastered in all of the windows. I've posted plenty of pics.
Old 02-19-24, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by AJT123
I guess. You save $12,500 (not including tax credit) right off the bat of a MB electric vehicle at the dealer here. Plastered in all of the windows. I've posted plenty of pics.
No, "i guess"...its a fact. In that case Mercedes has given rebates to get the dealer to that point. Without rebates if the dealer had done that they would lose money, theres not $12,000 of profit in the car.
Old 02-19-24, 08:18 AM
  #1719  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
i'll see you, and raise.

hydro is expensive to build but is still the cheapest and most reliable clean electricity.

comparing 2010 and 2019 here...


https://www.c2es.org/content/renewable-energy/

new ocean 'kite' power looks very promising too.



in sunny places (like florida ) maybe, but even then battery needs for utility scale are insane.
Hydro has existed for over 100 years. It is very good renewable source of electricity. Accumulation lakes are also great storage.

Also, you cant just rely on solar even if it was the cheapest, and batteries are expensive way of storing electricity.

Both have problems with environment too that are connected to initial buildout, i assume solar more.
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Old 02-19-24, 10:11 AM
  #1720  
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Has this been posted? California EV sales are falling. Is it just temporary, or a threat to state climate goals?
Old 02-19-24, 10:32 AM
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That article is laced with politics how are we supposed to discuss it here?
Old 02-19-24, 10:46 AM
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The auto industry as a whole that has slowed down:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/03/b...%20this%20year.

EV adoption itself is the highest it's ever been, but with high interest rates, layoffs from the tech sector and car prices at an all time high, there is an overall decline in sales. Dealership lots are full right now, but they are not budging on price
Old 02-19-24, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
...snip...
Good data but it is 5 years out of date, in that time price of solar has dropped significantly. Either way I am a big fan of solar and hydro but only if it is deployed responsibly. Hydro can cause devastating environmental damage. Solar can be deployed artfully and even be a benefit to crops but it is hardly done that way because it requires more effort.
Old 02-19-24, 01:20 PM
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https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...w-does-it-tow/
Old 02-19-24, 01:50 PM
  #1725  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Good data but it is 5 years out of date, in that time price of solar has dropped significantly. Either way I am a big fan of solar and hydro but only if it is deployed responsibly. Hydro can cause devastating environmental damage. Solar can be deployed artfully and even be a benefit to crops but it is hardly done that way because it requires more effort.
....and money.


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