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I have my doubts as well about battery replacement costs dropping that much.
On the Prius, a vehicle that has been here for decades and sold millions in total, battery replacement costs are still around $1000, and this is for a pack that is 70x smaller than the huge batteries on BEVs.(only 1.3 kwh on these HEVs vs the 70+ kwh of BEVs)
To use factory-new Tesla packs as an example, in the past few years they've come down from over $40k to around $15k installed. That's still a lot, but it will continue to come down, and not all that different from factory-new engines. I saw a discussion on another board this week where a Volvo dealer wanted $17k to put a new engine in a 2015--a 9-year-old car is mechanically totaled because of a bad spark plug.
If you believe the doom and gloom about gigacast frames, future junkyards will be littered with totaled cars that still have nearly-new battery packs that can be easily scavenged and re-used. That will drop costs dramatically.
Has there been any research done on the repairability of the structural battery packs? All I could find in a quick search was that getting to the batteries themselves was a PITA
I have to say, EV chat is starting to feel like an Anti EV squatting ground. What was happening in Car Chat is slowly creeping in here. The reasons some of us asked Dave to create this sub forum (thank you Dave) was because of this exact scenario, every thread turned contentious, with people repeating over and over how much they hated EV's or how compromised they are. So let me summarize here the concerns that keep being repeated, over and over and over again:
-Battery packs are going to fail and are too expensive
-EV's are going to destroy the used car market
-EV's don't have enough range
-EV's take to long to charge
-Cold weather destroys range
-"They" are forcing us to buy EV's
-I hate EV's because... fill in the blank
I promise you guys, all of those concerns you have been noted. Yet they continue to be repeated over and over again. I live with four EV's, and I daily drive them, so I know their strengths and weaknesses in and out. And guess what? I love them. And I'm not going back.
I have no issues with debating the merits or perceived shortfalls of BEV's. But why continue to repeat your dislike for EV's over and over? Do you think it's going to make us see the light and come back? Like how rude would it be if I went into Car Chat and started telling everyone how their gasoline cars sucked?
Has there been any research done on the repairability of the structural battery packs? All I could find in a quick search was that getting to the batteries themselves was a PITA
first ones in Model Y were hard if not impossible to repair (Tesla never repairs btw, just replaces under warranty). Now hard to say they did not work on it, since they do this all the time - improve.
You keep beating a dead horse over and over. No, I wouldn't buy a 12 year old car, but I did say that I would consider buying a used EV for one of my kids if battery packs/plus the price of the car were cheap enough. I'm not one of my kids. Please go back and read what I wrote
But they're not cheap so it's moot. How much is a Tesla battery? Well into 5 figures.Your kids have nothing to do with it WADR.
Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
I have to say, EV chat is starting to feel like an Anti EV squatting ground. What was happening in Car Chat is slowly creeping in here. The reasons some of us asked Dave to create this sub forum (thank you Dave) was because of this exact scenario, every thread turned contentious, with people repeating over and over how much they hated EV's or how compromised they are. So let me summarize here the concerns that keep being repeated, over and over and over again:
-Battery packs are going to fail and are too expensive
-EV's are going to destroy the used car market
-EV's don't have enough range
-EV's take to long to charge
-Cold weather destroys range
-"They" are forcing us to buy EV's
-I hate EV's because... fill in the blank
I promise you guys, all of those concerns you have been noted. Yet they continue to be repeated over and over again. I live with four EV's, and I daily drive them, so I know their strengths and weaknesses in and out. And guess what? I love them. And I'm not going back.
I have no issues with debating the merits or perceived shortfalls of BEV's. But why continue to repeat your dislike for EV's over and over? Do you think it's going to make us see the light and come back? Like how rude would it be if I went into Car Chat and started telling everyone how their gasoline cars sucked?
OK my rant for the day is over
There is nothing against the TOS about respectful debate. Y'all can disagree with me but I don't disrespect you or anyone at all. I just say in a nice way that you guys (EV in general) need reality checks sometimes.. I've said repeatedly I don't want to nastily argue and even shut down my own arguments with people bc I don't want to turn it into the back and forth BS because that actually is against the TOS.
I even went and read the sticky at the top of the forum (EV chat rules) list a couple hours ago to check myself.
I would agree that things have gotten more toxic around here. Rules refresher from the top sticky for newer members in the forum, underlining in the rules is from my side
EV Chat posting guidelines (please read them all before posting here, your ongoing access depends on following them)
1. Topics should only be EV related including BEV (Battery Electric Vehicles) or PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles) or about EV supporting technology and infrastructure. HEV (Hybrid Electric Vehicles) should continue to be discussed in Car Chat. 2. Keep the discussion polite. You don't have to like EVs to post or reply here, but you do need to have an open mind and discuss any concerns maturely. Don't bait other members into arguments. 3. Do not be repetitive. If you've stated your position earlier in a thread, or stated the same concern in past EV forum threads, then consider you've already been heard and move on from a topic. 4. Remember that Club Lexus is a Lexus enthusiast forum, including EV Chat. While Toyota / Lexus EV offerings and efforts are (currently) relatively immature and undergoing growth and change, constant badmouthing and trolling will get you ejected from this forum. See rules #2 & 3, it's OK to say you don't like something or disagree with some strategy or direction but keep it polite and don't be repetitive. Lexus is why we all ended up here in this community, give them a chance. 5. Experienced EV owners, please help new members understand EV topics. There are going to be a lot of newcomers who don't know anything about electric vehicles. They'll often stumble upon this forum, please help guide them with what you've learned. Over time we will develop an EV FAQ for this forum. 6. Remember that the CL rules of conduct still apply within this forum. Refrain from name calling, rude or offensive posts, flamebaiting, political discussions and overwhelmingly dominating the conversation. Refusal to respect those rules could result in you being asked not to participate in the EV any longer. As a reminder, those rules are located here.
I have to say, EV chat is starting to feel like an Anti EV squatting ground. What was happening in Car Chat is slowly creeping in here. The reasons some of us asked Dave to create this sub forum (thank you Dave) was because of this exact scenario, every thread turned contentious, with people repeating over and over how much they hated EV's or how compromised they are. So let me summarize here the concerns that keep being repeated, over and over and over again:
-Battery packs are going to fail and are too expensive
-EV's are going to destroy the used car market
-EV's don't have enough range
-EV's take to long to charge
-Cold weather destroys range
-"They" are forcing us to buy EV's
-I hate EV's because... fill in the blank
I promise you guys, all of those concerns you have been noted. Yet they continue to be repeated over and over again. I live with four EV's, and I daily drive them, so I know their strengths and weaknesses in and out. And guess what? I love them. And I'm not going back.
I have no issues with debating the merits or perceived shortfalls of BEV's. But why continue to repeat your dislike for EV's over and over? Do you think it's going to make us see the light and come back? Like how rude would it be if I went into Car Chat and started telling everyone how their gasoline cars sucked?
OK my rant for the day is over
I agree Amirza, good rant.
I vote to push those topics to new thread and keep our out here, just IMO.
For one, I don't know of anyone who has bought a used vehicle over just a couple years old, let alone 12. Vehicles here tend to rust out before that time. The only person I know who has an older vehicle than that, is my 85 y/o mother. She has a 2010 Cadillac she bought new with 20k miles. The people who do buy 12 year old ICE vehicles, will still be able to do that in the future. It will just cost them a ton more to drive, due to fuel costs which will continue to rise.
So, my answer should be obvious. Just in case you can't figure it out, my answer is NO.
And I respect that answer, but the bolded won't happen....sorry. Fossil fuels aren't going anywhere. Nor are 168,000 gas stations.
But they're not cheap so it's moot. How much is a Tesla battery? Well into 5 figures.Your kids have nothing to do with it WADR.
There is nothing against the TOS about respectful debate. Y'all can disagree with me but I don't disrespect you or anyone at all. I just say in a nice way that you guys (EV in general) need reality checks sometimes.. I've said repeatedly I don't want to nastily argue and even shut down my own arguments with people bc I don't want to turn it into the back and forth BS because that actually is against the TOS.
I even went and read the sticky at the top of the forum (EV chat rules) list a couple hours ago to check myself.
That was nothing against you AJT. It's just that we keep repeating ourselves over and over, myself included
I vote to push those topics to new thread and keep our out here, just IMO.
I just wanted to put things in perspective. I get it, some people don't like EV's. I love debate and discussions and welcome them, but I think make the point and move on. I also include myself because I find myself repeating my arguments over and over
That was nothing against you AJT. It's just that we keep repeating ourselves over and over, myself included
I'll take a break for a little while. I hope that you all collectively know I'm not in here to measure and am actively trying to maintain decorum and respect, like I said. What can I say, I like debating lol. I'll be back in a couple weeks or so.
The warranty on my battery is ending soon (basic car warranty ended last year in June). The car has been reliable (other than the usual door handles, battery coolant valves) in the 5 years I've had it. It will be turning 8 in July.
I'm not in a position to replace the car right now. I'm on the fence about getting an extended warranty....
A third party company is now offering extended warranties in Canada and it's not prohibitively expensive. It's under $3k CAD. Reviews seem to be good and coverage is decent - Battery, Air suspension, MCU and DU's. Those are the big ticket items and are covered.
I thought I would do something a little different here, and go back in time and turn back the clock 7 years. This is post from May 17th, 2017 from some cocky youngster:
That post didn't age very well. But what's most embarrassing about it, is I wrote it There are thankfully not very many more like it, but just the same, know that some posts don't age well, and once they are on the internet, they are forever
You were quite reasonable to write that post. 60k was more than enough to get a nice luxury car/SUV back then. I guess if someone wanted to be different or experience new things, then it's justified for them.
Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
Haha I would have flipped if saw their invoices! A year after I wrote that, I bought a 2018 Civic Si....$26k OTD. Paying $60k for a car like the Model 3 would have me asking people to have their heads examined. Interestingly enough, both friends still have their 2018 Model 3's
They still have them because they can't get out of them without a big loss.
And I respect that answer, but the bolded won't happen....sorry. Fossil fuels aren't going anywhere. Nor are 168,000 gas stations.
What I stated and your reply, have nothing to do with one another. I believe that the current trajectory of BEV's and PHEV's, will help extend the lifetime supply of fossil fuels. This is a positive. It means you can keep driving your 20 year old car well into your golden years. Do you think the price will decrease over time? Do you not believe that Shell, the largest distributer of gas in the US, will not be closing 1,000 stations?
03-22-24, 07:35 AM
There are thankfully not very many more like it, but just the same, know that some posts don't age well, and once they are on the internet, they are forever
60k was more than enough to get a nice luxury car/SUV back then. I guess if someone wanted to be different or experience new things, then it's justified for them. 