General EV Conversation
#4171
I saw this video, these guys are bias. They loved the car but tried to pretend they hated it. 99 percent of people aren't going to track this car, and the 1 percent who do will spend $10k to upgrade the brakes, suspension and tires, and it will still be cheaper than an M3 or M4, which are cars I love BTW
The traditional delineation between luxury, daily and performance cars has never been more blurred. What used to be clear and obvious to the enthusiast really isn't any longer. There's no question at the broad periphery, you're not going to go around a track in a mainstream EV as fast as you could in say a 911 but then again that EV is quieter and smoother than most luxury cars. But if you were to draw the Venn diagram for luxury, performance and daily drivability, the EV is going to have the biggest intersections.
2 of my friends drive Porsche. One has a 911 turbo manual AWD. Other has a GT4. The 911 owner tracks a S2k. The GT4 owner has owned/tracked Civic Type R, C7 Grand Sport, S2K, Elantra N. In our conversations about cars in general, neither of them are considering adding an EV to their collection. It’s not a knock on them.
EVs are great commuters like your Camrys and Accords and CUVs. EVs have the performance advantage over the likes but imo holds no comparison to 911s, GT4, GT3, GT2. One thing an EV will never have is soul that you get from a gas vehicle especially a high performance gas vehicle. Watch a video of an EV on the track then watch a video of a gas car on the same track. IMO, it’s not a comparison.
I will track a 911 or Supra or Type R and in the same breath I will daily an EV. In the end it comes down to personal preference. I took my daughter to ballet🩰 practice this week in my track car. Nothing like rowing gears. In the morning, I use the PHEV to drop the kids off at school.
#4172
Lexus Champion
$10k is a stretch. I’ve tracked my car on stock brakes, tires and suspension. My suspension is still stock. The M3P owner I talked to told me he upgraded his pads and tires. Everything else is stock.
Some luxury cars are whisper quiet. It’s no secret EVs have wind/tire noise something you don’t find too often in your luxury vehicles. Add all the amenities and a high performance powertrain now which is more smooth or quiet is a strong argument.
2 of my friends drive Porsche. One has a 911 turbo manual AWD. Other has a GT4. The 911 owner tracks a S2k. The GT4 owner has owned/tracked Civic Type R, C7 Grand Sport, S2K, Elantra N. In our conversations about cars in general, neither of them are considering adding an EV to their collection. It’s not a knock on them.
EVs are great commuters like your Camrys and Accords and CUVs. EVs have the performance advantage over the likes but imo holds no comparison to 911s, GT4, GT3, GT2. One thing an EV will never have is soul that you get from a gas vehicle especially a high performance gas vehicle. Watch a video of an EV on the track then watch a video of a gas car on the same track. IMO, it’s not a comparison.
I will track a 911 or Supra or Type R and in the same breath I will daily an EV. In the end it comes down to personal preference. I took my daughter to ballet🩰 practice this week in my track car. Nothing like rowing gears. In the morning, I use the PHEV to drop the kids off at school.
Some luxury cars are whisper quiet. It’s no secret EVs have wind/tire noise something you don’t find too often in your luxury vehicles. Add all the amenities and a high performance powertrain now which is more smooth or quiet is a strong argument.
2 of my friends drive Porsche. One has a 911 turbo manual AWD. Other has a GT4. The 911 owner tracks a S2k. The GT4 owner has owned/tracked Civic Type R, C7 Grand Sport, S2K, Elantra N. In our conversations about cars in general, neither of them are considering adding an EV to their collection. It’s not a knock on them.
EVs are great commuters like your Camrys and Accords and CUVs. EVs have the performance advantage over the likes but imo holds no comparison to 911s, GT4, GT3, GT2. One thing an EV will never have is soul that you get from a gas vehicle especially a high performance gas vehicle. Watch a video of an EV on the track then watch a video of a gas car on the same track. IMO, it’s not a comparison.
I will track a 911 or Supra or Type R and in the same breath I will daily an EV. In the end it comes down to personal preference. I took my daughter to ballet🩰 practice this week in my track car. Nothing like rowing gears. In the morning, I use the PHEV to drop the kids off at school.
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BayeauxLex (Yesterday)
#4173
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
everyone, including you, is biased.
sounds biased to me. and i disagree no one will cross shop the two with the new model 3 performance. have you driven even the non performance new model 3?
so quick to judge what everyone has done or not without knowing.
a bmw m3 is a noisy fast sports sedan. a model 3 performance is a silent fast sports sedan. what is so much more?
not sure why you would get frustrated. it's call an opinion. everyone has 'em.
neither is anyone's.
haha, you had to go there.
depends how many stickers.
I would also question how many $100k+ sports cars you've driven.
A car of that caliber offers SO much more to the driver than simply being fast in a straight line and handling well.
This is part of what frustrates me about Tesla hype,
neither is anyone's.
#4174
EV ftw!!!
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#4175
Lexus Fanatic
Absolutely, you just have to work to ignore those biases and be as objective as you can.
Yes I have, it’s a great car but it’s nothing like an M3.
The “noise” is part of it. The M3 offers the feel and emotion of a working IC machine, it offers a much more dramatic style inside and out, it offers that in a package that isn’t shared with a ton of Ubers and that hundreds of thousands of other cars on the road are identical to.
When you replace your LC500 with a Model 3 Performance I’ll take notice. You have both types of cars, which proves my point.
sounds biased to me. and i disagree no one will cross shop the two with the new model 3 performance. have you driven even the non performance new model 3?
a bmw m3 is a noisy fast sports sedan. a model 3 performance is a silent fast sports sedan. what is so much more?
When you replace your LC500 with a Model 3 Performance I’ll take notice. You have both types of cars, which proves my point.
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#4176
Performance... yes. Daily... mostly yes. Luxury... No. Whoever includes Luxury in EVs has not experienced luxury or has a different definition/reference point about luxury. And of course, that's my opinion.
#4177
Pole Position
One of the primary defining characteristics of luxury is smooth, quiet, effortless power. Something EV powertrains do better than any other powertrain. Current EVs can absolutely fall short on other aspects that define luxury, but that's an implementation problem not a platform problem.
#4178
Lexus Fanatic
This sounds eerily similar to what I heard about Lexus when they first hit the scene. They were seen as an imposter, not "true" luxury.
#4179
Lexus Champion
#4180
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
well i wasn't comparing the non-performance model 3 to the M3. the performance model 3 is obviously much faster and with adaptive dampers will handle a lot better. would it win on a track vs and M3? i don't know. what will also be interesting is how long before bmw brings out a performance ev that can wax their own m3. i don't think it will be long.
it has the 'feels', ok.
'dramatic style' imo = ugly in this case.
you haven't spent much time in europe is seems.
doesn't prove anything, but fyi, i'm considering it.
bmw disagrees with their i7. mercedes disagrees with their ev models even if the styling hasn't been a hit. lucid is pretty luxurious.
exactly, it's only a matter of time before these "but what about" things fade away.
The “noise” is part of it. The M3 offers the feel and emotion of a working IC machine,
it offers a much more dramatic style inside and out,
it offers that in a package that isn’t shared with a ton of Ubers and that hundreds of thousands of other cars on the road are identical to.
When you replace your LC500 with a Model 3 Performance I’ll take notice. You have both types of cars, which proves my point.
exactly, it's only a matter of time before these "but what about" things fade away.
#4182
Lexus Test Driver
Saying the M3 and Model 3P aren't competitors is like saying the C63 isn't a competitor just because it's a 4-pot PHEV. They are all absolutely made to accomplish the same thing.
#4183
EV ftw!!!
https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com...in-detail.html
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bitkahuna (Yesterday)
#4184
Lexus Fanatic
well i wasn't comparing the non-performance model 3 to the M3. the performance model 3 is obviously much faster and with adaptive dampers will handle a lot better. would it win on a track vs and M3? i don't know. what will also be interesting is how long before bmw brings out a performance ev that can wax their own m3. i don't think it will be long.
it has the 'feels', ok.
'dramatic style' imo = ugly in this case.
you haven't spent much time in europe is seems.
doesn't prove anything, but fyi, i'm considering it.
Yeah I was behind the times on that one!
They're just different...you're going to have a hard time convincing people that love high end sports cars that they should buy an EV because in that sort of car the EV really doesn't deliver a comparable or better experience. Mainstream cars, luxury cars are a different story. EVs make great driving appliances, but when it comes to them being engaging machines that attract somebody who wants a sports car experience its a different matter. Certainly no 4 door mainstream looking sedan like a Model 3 is going to do that no matter how fast it is. Even an M3 or E63 or S63 or M5 etc doesn't really replace the kind of experience you get in a true 2 door sports car.
#4185
Lexus Champion
Well I feel vindicated knowing I'm not alone in my opinion, and that I'm not under some Elon Musk brainwashing spell. I personally find EV's fun to drive, and exhilarating. The Model 3 Performance is so freaking fast, you actually have to brace yourself before launching. My co worker who did the test drive yesterday couldn't stop talking about it, even today. Which means it had an impact on him. My suggestion is if one finds ICE more exciting, stick to ICE. I for one am totally addicted to buttery smooth power delivered instantly
Last edited by AMIRZA786; Yesterday at 03:13 PM.
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bitkahuna (Yesterday)