spwolf

You want a vehicle that can do 467 miles roundtrip on the highway at 75-80 mph without any charging? I assume you probably want to do that with 80% range?

There is no EV that can do that, nor will there be an EV that can do that. Maybe in Australia where thats a real problem? I dont see that happening in western countries.

SW17LS

Lucid Air may be able to do that…

I have no issue stopping to charge every 250 miles or so, as long as that takes less than 30 min and there are plenty of places to charge

LeX2K

He's creating an impossible scenario on purpose.

spwolf

Yeah, you can do that with good sedan with 100kwh battery, or suv with a bit larger battery.

But 467 miles at 75mph with real life conditions, rain, cold, hills, not starting at 100% and finishing at 0%, just not realistic.

Also, while it is possible to get 150kwh battery in sedan in the future, it will cost a lot more and be a lot heavier, not a real choice.

In reality, even with better efficiencies and larger/lighter batteries, around 300 miles can be a realistic goal for the future.

And yeah, not with trucks. Because that huge battery comes at cost, and it is heavy, plus charges slower.

SW17LS

I think what people have to focus on is the efficiency of recharging, not increasing range.

AMIRZA786

I think most of us had that mindset at one time, I know I did. The goals I had set were 400 miles and 10 minute charging before I would touch an EV. But once I actually began to personally experience the benefits vs the downsides (range being the only downside), my whole attitude changed. Now if I have make two 10 to 15 minutes stops to grab a quick charge when going to SoCal, it's not even an issue anymore. I know we in California have it good, and that in other parts of the country infrastructure is still lacking, but eventually it's going to get built out, one way or another, and I stand by these words: EV's will sell themselves.

Imagine a car that has between 300 and 600 HP, can beat most gas powered cars 0 to 80 off the line or rolling, has a drivetrain that's smoother than any V8 that exists, costs $30 to $50 a month to fuel, needs virtually no maint, and is more efficient than a Prius. Well, it's already here!

I think Spwolf is totally correct, real world 300 mile range is achievable with smaller lighter battery packs. And also @SW17LS is correct, charging curves need to get better. I think give it a few more years. In 2021 it took an average of 40 minutes to charge, now that's down to 18 minutes

SW17LS

For me I need more charging options along the travel routes I take. That’s my thing.

AMIRZA786

Toyota U.S. Electric Car Sales Increased By 10 Times In 2023

Nonetheless, plug-in hybrids still remain the majority of the manufacturer's rechargeable car sales

Toyota Motor North America (Toyota and Lexus brands) reports that its vehicle sales in the United States during the fourth quarter of 2023 amounted to 619,661 units. That's a 15% increase year-over-year. For the full year, the company sold over 2.24 million cars (up 7% year-over-year).

Last year, the Japanese manufacturer significantly increased its electrification efforts, expanding the lineup of electrified vehicles—xEVs (HEV, PHEV, BEV, FCEV)—to 26 models and increased the sales volume.



In Q4, the total xEV sales amounted to a record 202,185 vehicles (up 61% year-over-year) and 32.6% of the group's total volume.

Electrified vehicle xEV (HEV, PHEV, BEV, FCEV) sales in Q4'2023:

• Toyota xEV: 172,978 (up 56%) and 33% share
• Lexus xEV: 29,207 (up 94%) and 30.4% share
• Total xEV: 202,185 (up 61%) and 32.6% share

In 2023, the total xEV volume increased by over 30% to 657,327, accounting for 29% of the sales.

Meanwhile, rechargeable car sales—all-electric car sales, in particular—are growing even faster (from a lower base, though).

In Q4 2023, the Toyota group sold 16,657 plug-in electric cars (up 58% year-over-year), which represents 2.7% of the total volume. It's worth noting that all-electric car sales increased by 459% to 5,718 and are quickly catching up with the plug-in hybrids (10,939).

Plug-in car sales in Q4'2023:

• Toyota plug-ins: 11,664 (up 19%) and 2.2% share
  BEVs: 2,843 (up 188%) and 0.5% share
  PHEVs: 8,821 (down 0.1%) and 1.7% share
• Lexus plug-ins: 4,993 (up 589%) and 5.2% share
  BEVs: 2,875 (new) and 3% share
  PHEVs: 2,118 (up 192%) and 2.2% share
• Total plug-ins: 16,657 (up 58%) and 2.7% share
  BEVs: 5,718 (up 479%) and 0.9% share
  PHEVs: 10,939 (up 14%) and 1.8% share

* Toyota FCEVs: 133 (down 80%) and 0.0% share





In 2023, the group sold almost 40,000 plug-in electric vehicles in the U.S. (about 2.4% of its total volume). All-electric car sales amounted to 14,715, which is 1,103% more than in 2022 and 0.7% of the total volume.

Plug-in car sales in Q1-Q4'2023:

• Toyota plug-ins: 42,959 (up 36%) and 2.2% share
  BEVs: 9,329 (up 663%) and 0.5% share
  PHEVs: 33,630 (up 11%) and 1.7% share
• Lexus plug-ins: 11,307 (up 222%) and 3.5% share
  BEVs: 5,386 (new) and 1.7% share
  PHEVs: 5,921 (up 69%) and 1.8% share
• Total plug-ins: 54,266 (up 54%) and 2.4% share
  BEVs: 14,715 (up 1103%) and 0.7% share
  PHEVs: 39,551 (up 17%) and 1.8% share

* Toyota FCEVs: 2,737 (up 31%) and 0.1% share

For reference, in 2022, the group sold more than 35,000 plug-in electric cars (1.7% of its total volume), while in 2021, it was 52,767.



In 2023, Toyota (with the help of Lexus) managed to set a new record for plug-in electric car sales. It's a result of surging all-electric car sales because plug-in hybrid car sales are actually lower than in 2021 (39,551 vs. 52,767).

We guess that in the coming years, all-electric car sales will continue to grow, very likely outpacing the plug-in hybrid sales. At the same time, the strong growth of the non-rechargeable hybrids means that the Japanese company has no reason to ditch HEVs.

Models

In terms of models, the top one in Q4 was the plug-in hybrid RAV4 Prime (7,222). The all-electric Toyota bZ4X with 2,843 units was able to beat the Toyota Prius Prime but finished third behind its cousin—the Lexus RZ (2,875).

The all-electric Toyota bZ4X, together with the Lexus RZ and 3,109 Subaru Solterras, noted 8,827 sales during the quarter. That's not bad, and the Lexus RZ lineup recently expanded indicating that there is potential for more.

Lexus also launched the new RX PHEV model, which started with 656 sales in Q4.

Model sales in Q4'2023:

• Toyota bZ4X: 2,843 (up 188%)
• Toyota Prius Prime: 1,599 (down 64%)
• Toyota RAV4 Prime: 7,222 (up 62%)
• Lexus NX 450h+: 1,462 (up 102%)
• Lexus RZ: 2,875 (new)
• Lexus RX PHEV: 656 (new)

* The hydrogen Toyota Mirai noted 133 units (down 80%).

In 2023, Toyota bZ4X sales amounted to 9,329 (2nd best plug-in after the RAV4 Prime, which accounts for nearly half of the plug-in volume), which together with 5,386 Lexus RZ, is 14,715 all-electric cars. Subaru sold an additional 8,872 units, so the trio of closely related models ended the year with a total of 23,587 units.

It's worth noting that the hydrogen Toyota Mirai set a new annual sales record of 2,737 (up almost 31% year-over-year).

Model sales in Q1-Q4'2023:

• Toyota bZ4X: 9,329 (up 663%)
• Toyota Prius Prime: 7,557 (down 36%)
• Toyota RAV4 Prime: 26,073 (up 40%)
• Lexus NX 450h+: 5,265 (up 50%)
• Lexus RZ: 5,386 (new)
• Lexus RX PHEV: 656 (new)

* The hydrogen Toyota Mirai noted 2,737 units (up 31%).

Detailed sales results of Toyota electrified cars in the U.S.:



https://insideevs.com/news/703436/to...-sales-2023q4/

SW17LS

I'm surprised that Toyota doesn't offer more PHEVs. Why is there no PHEV Sienna, or Highlander/Grand Highlander for instance?

spwolf

Well, don't you have Ioniq 5? So you know what the problem is - finding day charger on every stop so you can do smaller/fadter charges and not get out of your way

AMIRZA786

I'm only guessing, but I think it would lead to more demand for BEV's. I think I read that you really love the way your Pacifica drives in EV mode, which it looks like it sparked interest in BEV's. The other reason could be pricing. A few weeks ago I went with my brother in law to look at a Sienna hybrid. OTD the damn thing was going to be $60k, which made it unattractive to my brother in law. Add a bigger battery and now the price has jumped to $65-$70K

AMIRZA786

He doesn't have an Ioniq 5...an S-Class and Pacifica plug-in. I have an Ioniq 5

SW17LS

No, no EV here.

I do really love how it drives in EV mode, both of us do.

Sticker on my PHEV Pacifica with every option was $62k, paid about $55k before the tax credit. Sienna is just overpriced IMO, and totally not compelling...

AMIRZA786

I need to replace my aging 2013 Sienna next year, I may actually take a closer look at the Pacifica PHEV. I'm seeing a lot of them on the roads.

The Sienna Hybrid is completely ridiculous. MSRP is around $42k, but after the dealership markup it came to around $60k LoL . Wouldn't negotiate. We just walked right out

AJT123

Wow 62k, minivans are priced like crossovers and even some biggie BOFs.