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He's also wealthy, so I'm pretty sure he doesn't shop around, as $3k a year for him is not even noise. 100 percent I would buy one used, as every problem he's had with the car had to do with their manufacturing process, and most were corrected under warranty. He hasn't spent a cent on reliability related problems. He loves the car so much, he even bought out his lease.
I know several people who own Model S, and the biggest problem I've seen has been the screen, which actually turned out to be an issue with some defective module. Yes the early model years had suspension, motor and inverter related issues, but those would have been addressed under warranty. That said, I probably would stay away from a 2014 and pickup one up anywhere from 2018 and on
I don't have a P model, however even on my 2016 75D, I can count the number of issues (6 or 7) that I've had with mine. So far all have been covered under warranty with the exception of two (one door handle that failed right after the extended warranty ended - it lasted 7 years) and a trunk latch.
I don't have a P model, however even on my 2016 75D, I can count the number of issues (6 or 7) that I've had with mine. So far all have been covered under warranty with the exception of two (one door handle that failed right after the extended warranty ended - it lasted 7 years) and a trunk latch.
Those are surely inconvenient, but not huge issues. My 2013 Sienna front struts failed twice, the first time two years after I bought it, and two years after replacing them....warranty had already expired both times. So I ended up going to non OEM KYB's, and five years later they have been fine. Had it been engine or drivetrain, those would have been expensive and I would have probably dumped it.
In SoCal, used Model S's are very popular due to the huge price hit they took, and the available repair facilities for non warranty issues that pop up. This is just my opinion, but I think investing in a used Model S would be totally worthwhile, unlike buying something like a used Lotus or other sports car which actually would be a money pit
Agreed, here in Ontario, Canada - the insurance isn't any more expensive on my S compared to the much older E320 my son got a few months ago.
Hameed Do me a favor and do a better apples to apples to share as a data point. Get a quote for that Mercedes as if it were your primary driver, not his. I suspect the age and marital status of the driver is a significant factor here not being included in your comparison. Assume both have the same level of coverage.
Hameed Do me a favor and do a better apples to apples to share as a data point. Get a quote for that Mercedes as if it were your primary driver, not his. I suspect the age and marital status of the driver is a significant factor here not being included in your comparison. Assume both have the same level of coverage.
It's actually me as the primary driver as it's too expensive with my 25 year old as the primary driver.
Hameed Do me a favor and do a better apples to apples to share as a data point. Get a quote for that Mercedes as if it were your primary driver, not his. I suspect the age and marital status of the driver is a significant factor here not being included in your comparison. Assume both have the same level of coverage.
I can give you some samples from some of our cars on my policy, same drivers, same coverage:
My brother in law's son has a 2018 Model S p100D, and I asked him about his ownership experience, and here was his responses:
He has nearly 100k on it, and it seems it's been reliable except for some quality/manufacturing stuff. This is his second Model S as he stated in the text. From conversations with him, the most expensive ownership aspect is the insurance premium, but he probably saves more in not having to buy gas and maint. Here's a pic of the car:
I would buy a used one in a heartbeat!
His insurance premium is ridiculously expensive. Yours is pricey as well. Your premium is more than 2x my most expensive premium on one of my vehicles.
His insurance premium is ridiculously expensive. Yours is pricey as well. Your premium is more than 2x my most expensive premium on one of my vehicles.
I Also have a 20 and 23 year old son and daughter on my policy, which is why it's so high. Plus California has been raising rates. EV'S are not that much more expensive than non EVs.
The Model S P100D is a high performance car, which is one reason that rate is so high. Plus I'm positively sure he doesn't shop around
Those are 6 month policies, full coverage? If so, my rates are sky high because I have two young adult children that are under 25 years old on my policy. For five cars (four new model EV'S and a 2013 Sienna) I pay over $8k a year . I'm telling you, when I'm an old man, those kids of mine better be ready to change my diapers 🤣🤣
Those are 6 month policies, full coverage? If so, my rates are sky high because I have two young adult children that are under 25 years old on my policy. For five cars (four new model EV'S and a 2013 Sienna) I pay over $8k a year . I'm telling you, when I'm an old man, those kids of mine better be ready to change my diapers 🤣🤣
Yes, these are 6 month premiums for full coverage. We do have one 24 year old on our policy and one 27 year old. Got the 30 year old off a couple of years ago! We insure all our cars with State Farm.
Those are surely inconvenient, but not huge issues. My 2013 Sienna front struts failed twice, the first time two years after I bought it, and two years after replacing them....warranty had already expired both times. So I ended up going to non OEM KYB's, and five years later they have been fine. Had it been engine or drivetrain, those would have been expensive and I would have probably dumped it.
In SoCal, used Model S's are very popular due to the huge price hit they took, and the available repair facilities for non warranty issues that pop up. This is just my opinion, but I think investing in a used Model S would be totally worthwhile, unlike buying something like a used Lotus or other sports car which actually would be a money pit
I never said they were huge issues. Quite the contrary is what I was pointing out
EV sales push growth at BMW as combustion engine 'tipping point' has passed
Still, BMW's margins for ICE and EVs won't reach parity before at least 2026
BERLIN — BMW has passed the tipping point for combustion engine vehicle sales and now generates most sales growth from electric cars, its chief financial officer said in a media roundtable.
"The tipping point for the combustion engine is already there," CFO Walter Mertl said, adding that in his view it had been passed last year.
"The current sales plateau for combustion cars will continue and then fall slightly," he predicted, pointing to looming environmental regulation that will restrict sales of such vehicles.
Carmakers are under pressure to ramp up their EV offerings as regulatory deadlines from China to the European Union and some U.S. states will begin to ban sales of new fossil fuel emitting cars from the middle of the next decade.
BMW achieved a 15% all-electric sales share last year. It plans to raise that to 33% by 2026 as it rolls out six new models in its "Neue Klasse" EV-only line, a multibillion-euro effort to jump the technology gap with competitors.
Still, BMW's margins for combustion engine and all-electric cars won't reach parity before at least 2026, Mertl said, pointing to the higher costs of introducing new battery technologies for later models.
Discounting is also likely for cars in certain price ranges, Mertl said, without going into further detail.
The carmaker is sticking to its previously announced target of 3 million vehicles sold by 2030 with an 8-10% margin in its automotive segment, he added - a conservative goal sitting below its expected 2023 margin of around 10.3%.
BMW CEO Oliver Zipse said in September that the company would be "at least as profitable" when selling the "Neue Klasse" EVs at scale, bolstered by their lower battery costs and higher efficiency per kilowatt hour.
01-15-24, 02:31 PM
. I'm telling you, when I'm an old man, those kids of mine better be ready to change my diapers 🤣🤣
