Is the EV Market Waning?
05-07-24, 09:44 AM
#46
Super Moderator
BMW is heavily subsidizing the residuals and MF with their electric leases right now. Not to mention the $7500 EV credit that has no income or price limits when leasing. It sure makes them very tempting as their TCO is very low right now for a luxury car. Compare to the lease prices on BMW ICE cars and they're definitely using ICE profits to subsidize their EVs.
i5 xDrive 40: MSRP $72,925 less $1500 dealer contribution and $7500 lease credit. $6,660 down and $749/mo
540i xDrive: MSRP $67,595 less $1500 dealer contribution and $1000 lease credit. $6,969 down and $799/mo
Main difference is obviously the difference in lease credit covering the $5,330 difference in MSRP, plus another $1,170. This makes the purchase price slightly lower and would lower the lease payment by $23.40 if the money factor were zero.
But it isn't BMW providing that $7500. That's a federal incentive, they're just passing it through. So in this case, the ICE car has $1,000 more upfront subsidy from BMW. They're not juicing the residual either, as the lease-end purchase option of the two cars are only $120 apart despite the EV's higher sticker. Maybe there's a slight difference in MF, but we're talking about maybe $15/mo of the $799/mo coming from any discrepancy there.
05-08-24, 05:01 AM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
if we get too wrapped up on what it is now vs what it was in the past, yeah... it's gonna be painful.
but then almost all of the groceries we buy are now double (or much tinier packages, i hate that) what they were before covid.
I'm so exasperated trying to make a deal work to replace my car I'm about to bag it and just keep it, I've never had a harder time working out a deal.
In terms of EV vs ICE cost, I'm looking at 760s and i7s as you know, the i7 is slightly more expensive than the 760 (about $4k more), BUT the way the lease deals work out its actually about $350 a month cheaper to lease. When you factor in the $300-350 a month I spend on gas, yeah an EV would be ~$550 a month cheaper for the identical car.
05-08-24, 05:22 AM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
yup. gotta make beans from investments to make the car less of an issue.
if we get too wrapped up on what it is now vs what it was in the past, yeah... it's gonna be painful.
but then almost all of the groceries we buy are now double (or much tinier packages, i hate that) what they were before covid.
if we get too wrapped up on what it is now vs what it was in the past, yeah... it's gonna be painful.
but then almost all of the groceries we buy are now double (or much tinier packages, i hate that) what they were before covid.
we've heard you say you'll keep the current car (perfectly reasonable option!) multiple times, but if i was a betting person, i'd say you'll get the shiny new thing.
not surprised. from your posts, i think you'd LOVE the i7, even with the concern about your trips to W Va which i think are a non-issue if you have a 30A charger to use overnight at your relative's place. any time you spend on charging too will be vastly more than offset by not wasting time going to gas stations.
Ordering a car throws all the negotiation out the window.
While I do want a new car, I’m not going to pay $2,000+ a month for one of these cars…even the i7 dealers just don’t seem motivated…
The following users liked this post:
AMIRZA786 (05-08-24)
05-08-24, 05:41 AM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
if you think it's bad here... i was just in the uk. this converts to about $205,000.
have you considered a cadillac lyriq by the way? i find it to be a very appealing vehicle although i've not driven one.
The following users liked this post:
AMIRZA786 (05-08-24)
05-08-24, 02:12 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
Oh I know, princess problems right? lol
The M70 isn't much cheaper here, they can be $190k or so...WAY overpriced.
I have thought about them, I've seen a few. The back of it kind of reminds me of a Pacer...which isn't a good thing to be reminded of lol, I will check one out though.
if you think it's bad here... i was just in the uk. this converts to about $205,000.
have you considered a cadillac lyriq by the way? i find it to be a very appealing vehicle although i've not driven one.
05-08-24, 06:49 PM
#53
I’m half seriously looking to lease the Nissan Ariya (for the wife). There are still plenty ‘of 23s on dealers lots (already celebrated their birthdays) and, per leasehackr, can be leased for low to mid $300s ($0 or first payment at signing - 18 month/10k year), depending on the trim level. Unfortunately dealers around Chicago area are not very motivated to move them - yet. As a bonus, you can buy additional miles during the lease at a cost of $0.10/mile.
05-08-24, 07:15 PM
#54
Lexus Champion
I’m half seriously looking to lease the Nissan Ariya (for the wife). There are still plenty ‘of 23s on dealers lots (already celebrated their birthdays) and, per leasehackr, can be leased for low to mid $300s ($0 or first payment at signing - 18 month/10k year), depending on the trim level. Unfortunately dealers around Chicago area are not very motivated to move them - yet. As a bonus, you can buy additional miles during the lease at a cost of $0.10/mile.
The following users liked this post:
stasek (05-08-24)
05-08-24, 07:56 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i feel pretty confident without doing a lot of research that an i7 m70 is a good chunk more out the door in the uk vs. the u.s. the only thing potentially helping the uk price is that the pound is so weak. for a while at least.
05-09-24, 07:36 AM
#56
I don't know that we can reliably draw that conclusion. "Subsidized BMW leases" have been a thing since long before anyone, much less BMW, had EVs to sell. At least 20 or 25 years. Let's grab an "equivalent" example:
i5 xDrive 40: MSRP $72,925 less $1500 dealer contribution and $7500 lease credit. $6,660 down and $749/mo
540i xDrive: MSRP $67,595 less $1500 dealer contribution and $1000 lease credit. $6,969 down and $799/mo
Main difference is obviously the difference in lease credit covering the $5,330 difference in MSRP, plus another $1,170. This makes the purchase price slightly lower and would lower the lease payment by $23.40 if the money factor were zero.
But it isn't BMW providing that $7500. That's a federal incentive, they're just passing it through. So in this case, the ICE car has $1,000 more upfront subsidy from BMW. They're not juicing the residual either, as the lease-end purchase option of the two cars are only $120 apart despite the EV's higher sticker. Maybe there's a slight difference in MF, but we're talking about maybe $15/mo of the $799/mo coming from any discrepancy there.
i5 xDrive 40: MSRP $72,925 less $1500 dealer contribution and $7500 lease credit. $6,660 down and $749/mo
540i xDrive: MSRP $67,595 less $1500 dealer contribution and $1000 lease credit. $6,969 down and $799/mo
Main difference is obviously the difference in lease credit covering the $5,330 difference in MSRP, plus another $1,170. This makes the purchase price slightly lower and would lower the lease payment by $23.40 if the money factor were zero.
But it isn't BMW providing that $7500. That's a federal incentive, they're just passing it through. So in this case, the ICE car has $1,000 more upfront subsidy from BMW. They're not juicing the residual either, as the lease-end purchase option of the two cars are only $120 apart despite the EV's higher sticker. Maybe there's a slight difference in MF, but we're talking about maybe $15/mo of the $799/mo coming from any discrepancy there.
Let's compare the X5 base ICE vs the iX which is already getting long in the tooth for an EV....
2024 BMW X5 sDrive40i $68xxx
(Park Assistance)- $3000 Total at signing
- $789 plus tax (adding MSD Saves $30)
- 39/7.5k
2024 BMW iX xDrive50 $90xxx
(Convenience)- $4000 Total at signing
- $665 plus tax (adding MSD Saves $50)
- 36/7.5k
But you're right, the amazing EV deals are starting to dry up. Especially with MB, they really cut down their EV production it seems vs just 6-12 months ago.
Last edited by G30540i; 05-09-24 at 07:43 AM.
The following users liked this post:
swajames (05-09-24)
05-09-24, 08:56 AM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
For sure, it is what it is…
Im not going to keep it long term, but I may keep it for a while. The right opportunity to replace it will come, I just haven’t found a dealer that is sufficiently motivated yet. I’m surprised by how easily these dealers are letting a deal that has $5,000 in profit in it on a car that’s sitting on their lot go, they just seem totally uninterested.
I think I would too. Issue is that BMWs on the ground tend to lack a couple options I want. One they are all shadow line trim so none of them have the chrome grille etc, and two they lack the upgraded audio and interior I would want. S Classes on the ground tend to be spec’ed in a way that works for me.
Ordering a car throws all the negotiation out the window.
While I do want a new car, I’m not going to pay $2,000+ a month for one of these cars…even the i7 dealers just don’t seem motivated…
Im not going to keep it long term, but I may keep it for a while. The right opportunity to replace it will come, I just haven’t found a dealer that is sufficiently motivated yet. I’m surprised by how easily these dealers are letting a deal that has $5,000 in profit in it on a car that’s sitting on their lot go, they just seem totally uninterested.
I think I would too. Issue is that BMWs on the ground tend to lack a couple options I want. One they are all shadow line trim so none of them have the chrome grille etc, and two they lack the upgraded audio and interior I would want. S Classes on the ground tend to be spec’ed in a way that works for me.
Ordering a car throws all the negotiation out the window.
While I do want a new car, I’m not going to pay $2,000+ a month for one of these cars…even the i7 dealers just don’t seem motivated…
You can also join BMW CCA and get $1,000 rebate which is independent of dealer discounts.
Also HIGHLY recommend doing Performance Center Delivery is SC.
The following users liked this post:
SW17LS (05-09-24)
05-09-24, 09:46 AM
#59
Super Moderator
That said, while I'm not going to do the full dive I did above, on the surface it looks like i4 vs. 4 gran coupe (both G26) supports your point.
05-09-24, 09:58 AM
#60
Super Moderator
Not really the perk it once was. It was discontinued entirely in September, and when it came back in January, it was only for vehicles built in the Spartanburg factory (basically SUVs whose model designation starts with an X), and all of the previously-included logistics stuff (hotel, dinner, transportation to the PDC, etc) had been eliminated. It's not available for any of the non-SUV M cars, or more relevant to this thread, any of their EVs.
Now it's pretty much "we'll give you a couple of hours of our time in exchange for not having to ship your SUV".
Now it's pretty much "we'll give you a couple of hours of our time in exchange for not having to ship your SUV".