Ford backing away from EV commitment.
08-22-24 | 05:18 AM
#32
good write-up in wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
Did the same thing with the Volt and now the Bolt.
As far as Jim Farley, he has the vision and I think his intentions are good, but I don't think he has the power to convince Ford investors that long term they are going to lose money and there will eventually be light at the end of the tunnel. It just doesn't work that way when it comes to giant corporate conglomerates like Ford and GM.
It's not that a big corporation can't make a good electric car, they most definitely can, the Lightning is an amazing example, it's just that they waited until the 1th hour after seeing Tesla's Model 3 and Y not only becoming super popular, but highly profitable.
problem is, ford is probably losing $30k per truck!
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AMIRZA786 (08-22-24)
08-22-24 | 05:49 AM
#34
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ford has 177k employees. gm has 163k employees, and tesla has 100k.
while ford and gm may have more models and even more unit sales, they're not doing power storage products, and a ton of software.
because of the uaw, and the massive cost of pensions, healthcare for employees and retirees, ford and gm are financially trapped and also cannot innovate in automation and reducing staff needs the way tesla and other non-uaw companies can. ford's probably in worse shape than gm because they didn't restructure in the financial collapse as gm filed bankruptcy to jettison mountains of debt. even if ford and gm could innovate and reduce staffing needs they'd likely have to keep on paying the uaw workers to do nothing or pay a fortune to negotiate them out of the companies.
08-22-24 | 06:06 AM
#35
. ) AND i think he got some incentive from his employer. i think he suffered for about a year before he couldn't stand it anymore and got a porsche panamera. 
now he's got a jeep phev.
08-22-24 | 06:08 AM
#36
GM says union labor deals will increase costs by $9.3 billion
... GM’s expected vehicle cost increase includes $500 per vehicle in 2024. Last month crosstown rival Ford estimated it would see additional costs of between $850 and $900 per vehicle assembled.
here's some productive uaw workers
Last edited by bitkahuna; 08-22-24 at 06:13 AM.
08-22-24 | 07:39 AM
#37
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i know someone who had a bmw and went to a prius because it was trendy (guess what state he was living in ) AND i think he got some incentive from his employer. i think he suffered for about a year before he couldn't stand it anymore and got a porsche panamera.
now he's got a jeep phev.
) AND i think he got some incentive from his employer. i think he suffered for about a year before he couldn't stand it anymore and got a porsche panamera. now he's got a jeep phev.
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bowser (08-22-24)
08-22-24 | 08:37 AM
#38
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08-22-24 | 08:59 AM
#39
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Shipping first to simply "own" your competitor is a horrible way to do business. Farley should have read Tesla's master plan that has been on their website for 18 years
Ship a low volume "pipe cleaner" vehicle designed from the ground up as an EV no slapping a battery pack into an existing chassis. Prove out the tech, allow the supply chain to mature greatly reduces losses due to low volume. Then scale up.
Hubris bit Farley in the *bleep*
08-22-24 | 09:21 AM
#40
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So hang on a minute. Tesla will be losing thousands per Cybertruck at the minute, just like with every new product.
these things don’t design and build themselves.
Ford breaks out the losses because they report separate financials for three separate divisions. These losses reflect restructuring costs, the development of new factories and more. And those losses carry forward and reduce future taxable income.
if Tesla did the same they would report losses on every truck sold.
let’s not distort reality here.
these things don’t design and build themselves.
Ford breaks out the losses because they report separate financials for three separate divisions. These losses reflect restructuring costs, the development of new factories and more. And those losses carry forward and reduce future taxable income.
if Tesla did the same they would report losses on every truck sold.
let’s not distort reality here.
08-22-24 | 09:41 AM
#41
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Cybertruck will turn a profit likely by the end of the year and guess why. Because Tesla went through the pain of scaling up, optimizing, vertically integrating and about 10,000 other necessary steps.
Model Y never lost money.
Model Y never lost money.
08-22-24 | 09:55 AM
#42
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Both Ford and Tesla each have their advantages and disadvantages. Tesla has been building EV's from the ground up at scale and has mastered everything from the supply chain to software and has the ability to bring costs under control quickly while scaling up manufacturing. Ford has the advantage of building electrifying one of the most popular work trucks that people love for over 100 years, they just have to figure out how to cut costs, build at scale and make a profit on it. One of the ways I think they could do it is break away their electrification division and spin it into a new company, but easier said than done, not sure if investors and the board would go along with that
Last edited by AMIRZA786; 08-22-24 at 10:03 AM.
08-22-24 | 10:11 AM
#44
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I highly doubt it on the CT, particularly at current volumes, and, respectfully, that could never have happened with the Y.
08-22-24 | 10:29 AM
#45
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So what may have been in play was HOV access. There was a time that Prius got HOV access here, and back when they did it was absolutely a benefit worth having.