Bob04

Honesty and reality is what we need. Doesn't seem to be much of that going around lately, even from scientists. Everyone has an agenda and skews the information to fit that agenda, on both sides. Unfortunate.

Bob04

There is some truth to that.

Same goes for these fires. The real science will tell you what is going in Cali is EXACTLY what nature intended. Plants grow. Plants die. Eventually, enough dead plants become a fire hazard. Lightning eventually starts a fire and everything is burned off. Then, new plant start growing, and the cycle repeats. Just the circle of life. We are just upset because we have imposed ourselves into the system and don't like part of it. Happens every year in many parts of the world and is part of the natural ecosystem lifecycle.

Car emissions aren't to blame. Climate change isn't to blame. The climate has always been changing. Arrogant people that try to control nature and do a poor job of it are to blame.

LeX2K

^^ 100%. But never under estimate the lengths a certain profession will to go take advantage of a situation. Translation: more taxes.

RXSF

But the drought is California is not over, and that can be partially (if not all) attributed to climate change. Those who say drought is over because of torrential rain in certain parts of the State do not understand that moisture in soil requires slow and steady watering. Periods of drought, and then large amounts of rain do not get soaked in, but instead run off on the surface. Because the soil is so dry, it makes fires harder and harder to put out each year.

Bob04

It's all "climate change", just like it was in the 1800's when California went through droughts. And when droughts happens, trees die. Cali had about 3 million dead trees in 2010, but now has about 150 million dead trees. Instead of managing that, they just put out the fires and left a bunch of dead trees lying around. Classic case of man intervening in an ecosystem without understanding the impacts and causing a disaster. But even the Native Americans understood the concepts of clearing dry underbrush and doing controlled burns to protect their villages, so I'm not sure what the excuse is today.

Bob04

Anyway, I think the Lucid looks good. And that 517 mile range looks really good, but I'll believe it when I see it. Still feels like it's a long way from being on the road.

Wilson2000

The Federal government owns 75% of the forested land in CA. If you want to point fingers for not clearing dead brush and trees, and coming up with a plan to prevent these catastrophic fires, point at the Feds. The majority of the tree deaths are due to disease. Trees weakened by years/decades of drought are prone to disease.

95% of the best and brightest, credentialed climate scientists, agree the extreme level of drought in CA is a result of climate change. Since you are taking a minority viewpoint, if you want to refute the science, please provide your credentials and/or site your sources (scientist and studies commissioned by the oil industry don't count).

While climate change is a good argument in my book for buying and promoting BEV's, I'm holding out until I can afford solar panels to charge one. Using CO2 emitting power plants as a source of energy for BEV's is not a great alternative to ICE's.

LeX2K

This is completely made up.
You didn't provide any sources, why should you demand others do? You can't provide sources either, to validate your 95% claim you would literally have to cite EVERY scientist and institution out there. And real science is never settled, there is NEVER a permanent consensus. As new info comes in, technology improves, what is known, accepted and understood changes. The "95% of all scientists" is about the biggest load of BS ever put into the public sphere.
The reality is much more nuanced. It greatly depends where you live, how the power is generated, how efficient/old the power plants are among other factors. If you live in for example Quebec (or all of Canada really) then a BEV is much better since Canada generates the majority of power from hydro.

EZZ

The consensus polling does indicate that the majority of scientists do believe that climate change is occurring. Its even cited on government websites with citations. I have never seen a poll that is reverse of that which is most scientists do not believe in climate change.

https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/17/do-s...imate%20change.

I have no doubt though that BEVs are easily much much much cleaner than ICE over their lifetimes and mine is magnitudes cleaner as its powered by nuclear fusion

RXSF

So all the climate disasters we are seeing around the world, but lets just keep this on the US for now, is just a coincidence? Extreme drought, extreme hurricanes, extreme winters and summers, which just so happened to be predicted by pro climate change scientists, can be explained by what then? If there is even a 1 percent change that what they are saying will result if we dont change our CO2 habits, why are we even taking the risk? And Oil is not even a resource we can use forever, that is simply fact. So why do we also depend on something that is finite? -- while at the same time, conducting this experiment of releasing so much CO2 into the atmosphere?

EZZ, thanks for posting that link. So Wilson was wrong, its not 95% of scientists, its 97%

LeX2K

If you are a climate change skeptic (ALL science should be skeptical by nature) then you won't get published, won't get funding, will be branded a heretic. So of course 95% of scientist asked will give the "correct" answer. My cautionary statement is look at the predictive record of these people. It is not good.
It doesn't matter. We need to move to a sustainable energy future regardless, and need to drastically reduce waste and pollution. If that is not enough and humans are indeed the major cause of climate change then we are doomed. It solves NOTHING to brow beat the public and point fingers.

BTW please look at the actual predictions from 10, 20 and 30 years ago. Compare to reality.

RXSF

Agree on your last point. We have nothing to lose if we just believe in climate change and change our habits.

LeX2K

It's a meme at this point, what if we accidentally make the world a better place.

Here's the brutal truth. People are NOT willing to compromise their lifestyles. People are not going to stop buying crap on Amazon, not going to stop buying SUVs, not going to stop taking vacations. Our per person energy consumption is not going to change. So if all of that is the cause of these fires and extreme weather then it will continue to get worse. And no it doesn't matter if people don't believe in climate change, they use the same amount of energy, buy the same products, drive the same cars for the most part. There are exceptions but they make up a small percentage.

I've said many times, we could cut gasoline consumption in HALF if everyone drove a Prius. Back to Lucid, I'm hoping they give a huge kick in the pants to the auto industry like Tesla has.

BTW the drought in Cali is mostly due to sucking all available water out of the ground and using so much water in general major rivers are being run dry. Here is rainfall by year in LA, tell me what you see.

https://www.laalmanac.com/images/cha..._1887_2018.jpg

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Folks we're getting into debate forum content which is prohibited by our rules. Let's get back on the car stuff.

Wilson2000

Shouldn't the public be well informed by credentialed, honest, unbiased scientists? Is there any hope of avoiding a global climate catastrophe without acknowledgement of the issue? Don't we need to identify the causes to develop a plan/call to action for correcting it? If not, our species should pack its collective bag...we're out of here!

Unfortunately, the majority of scientists also believe we've waited too long to address climate change and won't be able to change our behaviors and business practices quickly enough to halt or reverse the warming. Maybe it is just as well since so many people are unwilling to change for the greater good of man, or even accept that climate change is real or affected by man. Since it likely won't decimate the species in our lifetimes, it's not on most peoples radar.