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Porsche Taycan (interior revealed post #104)

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Old 09-04-19, 06:47 PM
  #181  
TripleL
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Few more details, up close shots and some driving footage for those interested.....

Old 09-04-19, 07:32 PM
  #182  
jrmckinley
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^^ Interesting vid. Around 3:50 he mentions the braking system - it sounds like it does not do regenerative charging when you take your foot off the gas. The only time it regenerates is when you push the brakes... I wonder if this contributes to lower range?
Old 09-04-19, 08:10 PM
  #183  
bitkahuna
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Originally Posted by jrmckinley
^^ Interesting vid. Around 3:50 he mentions the braking system - it sounds like it does not do regenerative charging when you take your foot off the gas. The only time it regenerates is when you push the brakes... I wonder if this contributes to lower range?
It certainly would if true, and would be ridiculous.
Old 09-04-19, 08:26 PM
  #184  
peteharvey
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Originally Posted by Lexus2000
There are dozens of auto makers and a market for their cars, but in your mind the same can't apply to Tesla. As soon as other auto makers come out with electrics you think it's game over for Tesla. Why is that? Why can't Tesla have a piece of a market and be successful but other auto makers can.

Also you must think Tesla is standing still waiting for everyone else to catch up.

GM lost 60 billion in one year, then went bankrupt shortly after.
Anything can happen to anybody.
We just have to wait and see.

Think of it this way.
Right now, if you told me the US military could blow the Chinese military out of the water - I'd say I would totally agree with you.
Right now, Tesla certainly has a headstart - but that headstart means little for the future.
Afterall, neither GM nor Toyota Motor Corp could give a hoot about Henry Ford's headstart - right?

However, if you told me the US military will continue to blow the Chinese military out of the water over the next 10 to 15 years - just like that, then I'd say that I'd have to disagree with you.

Over the next 5, 10 and 15 years, anything can happen within the EV industry.

It's just like the Germans versus Toyota Motor Corp or even Hyundai, or Apple vs Samsung vs Huawei, or even iOS vs Android.

Anything can happen buddy.

Regardless of who comes out on top, one thing for certain is that it will be pretty close - just like Benz, Beamer, Audi & Lexus ICEV's today.

If you're desperate and you must buy one today, then go ahead and get a Tesla.
Else, wait for the technology to mature over the next 5/10/15 years - the best is yet to come....

Originally Posted by jrmckinley
But you're the one who mentioned Porsche as being small to support your opinion..??

Don't confuse size with innovation. The two have nothing to do with each other. Large companies are great at squandering resources and coming out with an incredibly mediocre product. Happens in every industry, every year.
My main point is that it is only early days.
The Taycan is just the first of many more and much better - to come.
Anything can happen over the next 5 years, as other companies move onto the EV bandwagon.
I have absolutely no idea of what the future holds.
I'm only sitting on the fence.
If you want to be biased towards Tesla, or even Porsche for that matter - go ahead, and enjoy....
.

Last edited by peteharvey; 09-06-19 at 05:34 AM.
Old 09-04-19, 08:44 PM
  #185  
coolsaber
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
It certainly would if true, and would be ridiculous.
Porsche engineering is that person who tries to maximize their efficiency on their morning commute by taking a route that will save them 0.00000001 miles.

"The Taycan won’t have levels of regen to toggle through, or the accompanying paddle-shifters or shift *****. But it will give drivers a choice to toggle a light amount of lift-off regen on, with actual brake-off regeneration following four scenarios:
- Lift-off recuperation off, coasting
- Lift-off recuperation on
- Auto-recuperation with camera
- Max recuperation, used by all driver-assistance features"

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-pedal-driving
Old 09-04-19, 08:44 PM
  #186  
patgilm
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I knew the Taycan was going to be way more that the initial projected price, not sure why anyone would think it would start under $100k given what most of their cars start at. Also, while it is a good bit more than the Model S, it should be as I’m sure the fit and finish and interior materials I’m sure will be way nicer, not $50k nicer though. I like Tesla’s but while I like the looks and power of the Model S best, the interior was disappointing and not what I would want in a $100k car and I would expect/want more (but then I guess it would be much more expensive).
Old 09-05-19, 07:19 AM
  #187  
EZZ
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Originally Posted by patgilm
I knew the Taycan was going to be way more that the initial projected price, not sure why anyone would think it would start under $100k given what most of their cars start at. Also, while it is a good bit more than the Model S, it should be as I’m sure the fit and finish and interior materials I’m sure will be way nicer, not $50k nicer though. I like Tesla’s but while I like the looks and power of the Model S best, the interior was disappointing and not what I would want in a $100k car and I would expect/want more (but then I guess it would be much more expensive).
For the price, the ICE equivalent is probably much faster overall (911 Turbo?). It seems EVs at the cheaper tiers sell on value (less gas, less maintenance) but EVs on the high end sell on something completely different.
Old 09-05-19, 09:59 AM
  #188  
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The article is pretty good about the reasons for a two-speed gearbox. Surprising that it only nets 5% efficiency. Also, the Tesla top speed is a mistake as Model S Performance has a 163mph top speed and the Model 3 Performance tops out at 162mph.

Why the Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox Is Such a Big Deal


Want to improve an EV’s range by 5 percent, or pump up its top speed? Trying shifting gears.



Industry supplier ZF's two-speed transmission is programmed to upshift at 43 mph, though it can adjust based on the route, topography, or the distance the driver hopes to cover before plugging in.ZF
​​​​​
To go with a 0 to 60 mph time under three seconds, 750 horsepower, and the ability to refill its battery in just over 20 minutes, the engineers at Porsche gave their all-new, all-electric Taycan a two-speed gearbox. And while that feature is unlikely to grace any headlines, it represents a potentially major shift for the electric car market.



Apart from the Taycan, every production EV uses a single speed transmission, and gets along just fine. Internal combustion engines need a bunch of gears because they have a narrow RPM window within which they can operate efficiently. For electric motors, that window is much wider, so a single speed works for both low-end acceleration and highway driving. It does require some compromise, and so EV makers favor low-end acceleration over Autobahn-worthy top speeds. Where most electrics top out around 125 mph (Tesla limits its cars to 155), the Taycan will touch 161 mph.

As the automakers crowding into this market look to differentiate the dozens of models they’re preparing to roll out, and as electric driving tech continues to evolve, Porsche is unlikely to be the only one making this move. The Taycan’s transmission is an in-house solution, and you can’t just grab a Formula E race car’s multi-speed transmission and plop it in your daily driver. But auto industry supplier ZF is working on its own version of the two-speeder, which it’s looking to sell to any automaker that doesn’t want to choose between low-end torque and top speed glory.

ZF’s approach could give other automakers a chance to eat into some of Tesla's advantage.

“With a two-speed transmission, we can do both,” says Stephan Demmerer, who runs ZF’s E-Mobility engineering division. For automakers willing to take on a bit more complexity, he says, the two-speed setup can either improve an EV’s range by 5 percent, or push its top speed beyond the typical cap.

It does that by improving the conversion rate of battery power to actual wheel power. Every one percentage point in energy conversion efficiency translates into two-percent more range, ZF says. Its two-stage shifter is modular, so it can fit into a range of vehicles, and comes mated to a motor with a maximum power rating of 140 kW. It’s programmed to shift between its two speeds at 43 mph, though the computer can be programmed to make the change at different points based on the route, topography, or the distance the driver hopes to cover before plugging in. Carmakers can use the system to squeeze more range out of a smaller battery—thereby reducing vehicle weight—or pair it with larger batteries to pursue performance, whether it’s racing around a track or towing the family boat.

“There is a real race to compete on the energy efficiency of EVs,” says Venkat Viswanathan, a mechanical engineer at Carnegie Mellon University. “Tesla has remained well ahead in energy efficiency even with their single-speed transmissions, and I think ZF’s approach could give other automakers a chance to eat into some of that advantage.”

The two-speed transmission is only arriving now partly because it’s complicated. Multi-speed transmissions must be robust to deal with the massive amounts of torque that electric motors can generate in a very short period of time, says Shashank Sripad, a mechanical engineer also from Carnegie Mellon. Tesla tried it with its proof of concept Roadster more than a decade ago, but ran into reliability challenges and has stuck with single-speeds ever since. And because they require more maintenance, these gearboxes risk undercutting the EV selling point of minimal upkeep costs.


Moreover, going beyond one speed hasn’t really been necessary so far. “Batteries have been small, with ranges of about 100 to 150 kilometers and the focus was more on inner-city driving,” Demmerer says. “Today we see all-round use of battery electric vehicles with a higher portion of highway driving, and the range has increased.” Two-speed setups have an advantage when people are driving in many applications, he says, and that 5 percent range improvement can save significant money as battery capacity continues to increase. In fact, the two-speed system makes the most economic sense in vehicles with larger batteries—or in higher-performance systems—so urban runabouts will likely stick with single-speed transmissions indefinitely.

Unless you’ve got the cash to drop on a shiny new Porsche Taycan, you’ll have to wait a bit for this new tech. ZF hasn’t announced who will be using the new transmission yet, and Demmerer says it likely won’t hit the market for another three years, given that his team just wrapped up the advanced engineering work. But the shift is coming.


Old 09-05-19, 02:46 PM
  #189  
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if we go from 1 gear to 2 gears, how long before, 3, 4, 5, 10...
Old 09-05-19, 02:52 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
if we go from 1 gear to 2 gears, how long before, 3, 4, 5, 10...
I doubt it will go much higher. The torque band in an electric motor is soooooo wide. I wonder if the weight of the 2 stage tranny actually negates any efficiency gains...maybe they did it for better top end efficiency only. Given Porsche had many years to develop this thing, I'm disappointed with the overall efficiency of the motor / battery system. I am however, impressed with their 800 volt system which provides faster charging and lower battery heat. I really hope things get cooking on the EV front now that the Germans are investing more heavily.
Old 09-05-19, 05:22 PM
  #191  
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Old 09-05-19, 05:35 PM
  #192  
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Some excellent marketing here

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/09/po...-falls-to-nyc/
Old 09-05-19, 06:52 PM
  #193  
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Right after its unveiling at Niagara Falls, a blue Porsche Taycan Turbo took off for New York City, embarking on a 408-mile (656 km) drive that featured multiple real world challenges, such as rainy conditions and heavy traffic.
Ease up there Porsche don't want to break anything.
Old 09-08-19, 06:01 PM
  #194  
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Big Porsche fan, but sort of disappointed.
Old 09-08-19, 07:54 PM
  #195  
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Considering how grand VW's EV plans are in the next 5 years, it seems they have a lot of work to do. The Taycan is a nice car, but not $150-185K nice. Especially when the Model S Performance exists for far less.

Not sure I have the confidence in VW to catch up to Tesla as fast as they think. Are they going to have 350 mi range cars as nice as a Model 3 under $35K in a few years? We'll see.


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