bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thought you'd like that article...

while obviously VERY impressive tesla sales, part of the issue for 'ice' is there's so many similar vehicles they all compete amongst... rogue, rav4, crv, equinox, on and on and on...
the y competes with what, the id.4?

the y is likely to continue to be very strong as long as it has so little ev competition and they can crank out so many more than other brands.

and lex2k, before you take this post as if i'm dissing tesla, i'm not, it's impressive.

LeX2K

Don't think it's fair to say Tesla only competes with other EVs if that was true then Tesla could never take sales away from Toyota (they are) and would be only selling to an entirely new segment of buyers. Tesla will sell 1.8-2 million cars this year you don't do that without stealing sales from legacy auto.

Blaze876

iTrader: (1)

you completely missed his point.

There are 3 groups of buyers:
1. Wants an EV and only and EV
2. Is open to both an EV / Hybrid / ICE
3. Only want a ICE vehicle

Tesla has little to no competition still for buyers who only want an EV for their next vehicle. Although an assumption I would think there are a lot of current Tesla customers who only considered an EV for their next vehicle before purchasing their Tesla.

I wonder how many EV owners here even cross shopped an ICE vehicle before getting their EV.

AMIRZA786

I actually did. Before I bought my Polestar I crossed shopped a 2021 IS350 F-Sport (to replace my 2010 IS350 Sport). I test drove both of them within 4 or 5 months of each other

LeX2K

You're saying people arbitrarily and automatically make up their minds and fit perfectly into your categories. Things are much more nuanced IMO. RAV4 owner may ONLY want another Toyota then they drive a Tesla and change their mind. Before driving the Tesla they 100% would not consider anything else. There are so many real world scenarios I could come up with.

Fascinating how the narrative has shifted over the years. Tesla will never be able to compete with the likes of Toyota. The competition is coming for Tesla. Now, Tesla has little to no competition if you want an EV.

signdetres

Now we fall into group #1 but before getting our first EV, Tesla Model Y, we cross shopped it against many comparably sized but cheaper ICE cars, mainly to look at total cost of ownership and found the Tesla to cost the same or less despite being more expensive. It was very easy to choose the Tesla when looking at the numbers and now we'd never go back.

Blaze876

iTrader: (1)

So how does your example not fit into 1 of the categories. In your example that person would now fall in group 2. Point is, when someone now is shopping for a new car, a person that already have their minds made up they want an EV is highly unlikely to switch to a ICE or Hybrid no matter which they test drive. Then you have on the other side people who dont want an EV any time soon or ever no matter what EV they test drive, then group 2.

It is highly unlikely for someone who wants an EV test driving a ICE car and decide to switch, they likely already know how an ICE drives and the advantages and disadvantages. Hence, these buyers have limited options now. Either get a Tesla or go on a long waiting list for most other EVs. Which comes back to the point that was initially made that the Model Y does not have much competition right now. Not because its much better than the others that's on the market, but because of availability. Name me an EV that competes with the Model Y that you can get within 1 month.

LeX2K

Then it's settled Tesla has no competition if we apply specific rules.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Excellent post, thank you.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

And then there's this, a very good article about people going back and forth between Tesla and non Tesla and pros (supercharger) and cons (fit finish defects). Ignore the click bait headline.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/g...ch-213257.html

Particularly liked reports of auto wipers not coming on or going full tilt in dry weather. must be that great 'vision' that can't accurately detect rain.

As amazing as teslas are, I'm not ready to give up completely reliable things I've used for years.

LeX2K

Least talked about aspect of Tesla's business, critically important to Tesla's mission.

Tesla launches ‘next-gen Megapack controls platform,’ slams competitors in the process

Longevite1

Lol I'm in group #2

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

My stance on those groups is next time I will likely either get an ev or keep my ice vehicles so no new ice lease or purchase.

signdetres

I hear you, happy to have another car that’s a non Tesla for that reason.

That said, when we got our Model Y in May 2022, Autopilot was terrible and would phantom brake all the time. The automatic wipers were also terrible. They didn’t work when you needed them to and didn’t respond quickly enough. The auto high beams were just as bad and would regularly high beam oncoming traffic and cars traveling in front even. And if you chose to use Autopilot, you can’t disable auto-wipers or auto high beams.

As of now though I’m happy to report numerous software updates have happened since May 2022 and in present day, Autopilot no longer phantom brakes anymore on us, the auto-wipers work just like all the rain sensor-equipped cars I had previously, and so do the auto high beams. Really happy with the progress they’ve made on those features. They work a lot more like what I’m used to and how you’d expect.

AMIRZA786

Here's my take. More than a year ago I most likely would not have bought a Tesla due to many of the problems@signdetres listed. Looking at a friend's 2020 Model 3, quality was definitely not fully there. But now I've had a chance to spend time in a few 2022/2023 Model 3's and Y's, Tesla has rectified many of the issues, both from a quality and software standpoint. I now consider Tesla vehicles premium products. So based on this, this is why my next two car buys will most likely be Tesla's:

From a utilitarian view point, Tesla's are the best value

In both drivetrain, battery and software, Tesla is ahead of all other automakers

Their charging infrastructure is years ahead of any of their competitors

​​​​​​I will not buy another car as long as they are sold through dealerships

Anyway, this is just my opinion. I want all car companies to succeed, and whatever choices people make I'm good with