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Old 02-12-23, 10:10 PM
  #781  
bitkahuna
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Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
The drivetrain and screen is all I'm after when it comes to Tesla. I've spent enough time with my brother in laws Model 3 to know that I absolutely love it, defects and all.
i'm sure you'll be very happy with it. until the next shiny object comes along.
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Old 02-12-23, 10:21 PM
  #782  
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Like another Tesla.
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Old 02-12-23, 10:23 PM
  #783  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
i'm sure you'll be very happy with it. until the next shiny object comes along.
I'm not generally that type of buyer. I plan to keep it 10 years or more. I'm not into shiny objects as you can see from current cars. The fanciest car I ever owned was the IS350... the rest have been Camrys and 2 Siennas
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Old 02-12-23, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Like another Tesla.
Yeah... like another Tesla
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Old 02-12-23, 10:30 PM
  #785  
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Tesla's are the opposite of shiny things in some ways look at the interior. Complete opposite to the shiny things interiors we saw in the 50's and 60's, some of which endures today. The bird brain part of us likes shiny things to look and peck at how does the minimalist car compensate for this? Are people evolving?
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Old 02-12-23, 10:34 PM
  #786  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Tesla's are the opposite of shiny things in some ways look at the interior. Complete opposite to the shiny things interiors we saw in the 50's and 60's, some of which endures today. The bird brain part of us likes shiny things to look and peck at how does the minimalist car compensate for this? Are people evolving?
It's all about utility for me. OK yeah I like the instant torque, power and being able to hit 80 before most people hit 60, but ultimately it's the almost no maintenance, utility and simplicity
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Old 02-13-23, 08:38 AM
  #787  
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Looks like Toyota's stance on EVs is changing...
And their C level staff is being kicked upstairs to get them outta the way.
When the pure EV manufacturer continues 40% to 50% growth YOY while generating insane profits, it gets your attention. They are eating your lunch.


Guess what? That's business.
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Old 02-13-23, 12:31 PM
  #788  
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This could also be the reason why.

Tesla earns 5 times more per car than Toyota, earnings show

NAGOYA, Japan -- Toyota Motor earned less than a fifth in per-vehicle earnings compared with Tesla during the April-December period as Japan's giant automaker struggles to absorb rising costs.

Toyota earned 240,000 yen ($1,820) in net profit per unit during that time span last year. In contrast, Tesla raked in the equivalent of 1.26 million yen per vehicle during the same period.
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Old 02-13-23, 01:22 PM
  #789  
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Originally Posted by jwong77
Tesla has three expensive car lines...one of them is 10+ years old. I am sure Toyota makes more money per model on the Land Cruiser/LX 200, 4Runner/GX/Prado series and Land Cruiser 70 series than Tesla does.. It would be irresponsible to compare the Toyota Yaris profits to the Tesla 3 profits or even to suggest that or include all of Toyota's models into the mix which is somewhere around 110 different car lines... It is all about context. Tesla had to cut their prices as their sales were slowing...that is never a good sign
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Old 02-13-23, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Tesla has three expensive car lines...one of them is 10+ years old. I am sure Toyota makes more money per model on the Land Cruiser/LX 200, 4Runner/GX/Prado series and Land Cruiser 70 series than Tesla does.. It would be irresponsible to compare the Toyota Yaris profits to the Tesla 3 profits or even to suggest that or include all of Toyota's models into the mix which is somewhere around 110 different car lines... It is all about context. Tesla had to cut their prices as their sales were slowing...that is never a good sign
Actual data would refute that.
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Old 02-13-23, 08:33 PM
  #791  
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but it's all about china...

Analysis: In China, Tesla could win electric vehicle price battle – but lose the war

SHANGHAI, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Slashed prices have given Tesla's (TSLA.O) China sales a pop, but analysts, and even fans, warn the U.S. automaker needs to up its long-term game to avoid choking on the dust of fast-moving rivals in the world's biggest electric vehicle market.

Most immediately, Tesla's January price cuts drove deliveries of its China-made vehicles up 18% from December. Tesla's thick profit margins have put it in a position to take a price war to competitors in China and beyond, analysts say.

But they say Tesla has lagged competitors in China in introducing new models, improving navigation systems and adding luxe interior touches or white-glove customer service to serve the developing range of consumer preferences for EVs.

"Tesla's facing a serious problem of a very limited product mix," said Cui Dongshu, secretary general of China Passenger Car Association (CPCA). "Its slowness to respond to Chinese consumers' preferences has led to a very passive positioning for Tesla to rely on few means such as price cuts to stay competitive."

Even Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk himself has conceded that China is where his firm could face its toughest competition.

Tesla did not respond to Reuters' request for comment on its China business. Grace Tao, Tesla's vice president in charge of external communications in China, said previously the price cuts in China reflected engineering innovation and answered Beijing's call to encourage economic development and consumption.



China's Association of Automobile Manufacturers expects sales of EVs and plug-in hybrids to surge by 35% in 2023 to 9 million vehicles - nearly a third of China's total new vehicle sales.

While Tesla has increased sales in China, its second-largest market, it has also lost share. From 15% in 2020, its share of the China EV market fell by a third to just 10% in 2022, according to data from the CPCA.

Tesla offers two models in China, the Model 3 sedan and the Model Y crossover. That keep-it-simple approach has driven scale and driven down costs.

After the latest price cuts, the Model 3 starts at about $34,000 and the Model Y at $38,000. But Chinese car shoppers, back out in showrooms this year after the end of China's tough COVID-19 curbs, are being courted by competitors offering a broad range of alternatives.

BYD (002594.SZ), which overtook Tesla by global sales volume last year and has a market value well over $100 billion, offers more than 60 different versions of EV and plug-in hybrid cars. Much smaller but ambitious peer Nio (9866.HK) has gone from two models to six over the same period and plans to launch five more this year.

"The aging product line is a real problem for Tesla," said Yale Zhang, managing director at Shanghai-based consultancy Automotive Foresight. "Once BYD and other EV startups follow to lower prices, the effect of Tesla's price cuts could vanish in the blink of an eye."

NO U-TURN AT TIANANMEN

Tesla's self-driving software and navigation systems, touted by CEO Musk as competitive strengths, have also come under criticism from customers about slow updates and errors on Chinese roads. Luxury EV buyers who employ drivers are less interested in paying more for the software.

Chang Yan, a 34-year-old Chinese auto blogger, who was among Model 3 buyers in China in 2018, said his car still asks him to make U-turns on strictly guarded Chang'an Avenue near Tiananmen Square, where such moves are banned.

"This is a sharp contrast with Nio, (EV brands) Xpeng and Li Auto, whose navigation aids have been working almost perfectly," said Chang, who also drives a Nio sedan.

Tesla has been considering a shift in its marketing in China, focusing more on energy efficiency, practical features and less on cutting-edge functionality, a person with knowledge of the matter said.

It has also been studying how its Chinese rivals, led by BYD, win over customers in showrooms, especially in smaller cities, the person said, declining to be identified citing lack of authorisation to speak to media.

One takeaway: BYD ensures that bottles of drinking water offered to showroom visitors are warm in winter in a nod to local preferences.

Tesla, which early this year promoted its China Chief Tom Zhu to head global sales and production, is also giving its China sales team a more direct line to product development engineers to provide local feedback, the person with knowledge of the matter said.

LESS IS MORE?

To be sure, the Tesla design aesthetic, with sparse interiors and synthetic leather, still appeals to many.

Cui Yang, a 31-year-old doctor shopping for a Tesla in Beijing after the recent price cut, said he was won over by "the minimalist interior style and tech feeling".

On the flipside, Chinese brands like Nio and Zeekr tout their butter-smooth Napa leather and traditional luxury features like seats with massage functions aimed as much at the passenger experience as the driver's.

Some EV makers see that premium segment of the market growing fast in coming years.

Li Auto (2015.HK) is targeting EV buyers looking for cars that can transport families, who expect to pay above Tesla's current pricing, starting at about $44,000, a sales category it expects will represent 10 million vehicles in market-wide sales by 2025.

Then there is a 'buy local' challenge for Tesla.

Chinese consumers like 50-year-old Lin Wenwei, who want to support a Chinese brand - even though Tesla makes the EVs it sells in China.

"I have always been more inclined to buy a domestic EV brand for the national industry," said Lin while he was trying out a Seal sedan for his son in a BYD dealership store in suburban Shanghai - after getting a BYD Dolphin hatchback for himself.






https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-02-13/
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Old 02-13-23, 08:42 PM
  #792  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
but it's all about china...

Analysis: In China, Tesla could win electric vehicle price battle – but lose the war

SHANGHAI, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Slashed prices have given Tesla's (TSLA.O) China sales a pop, but analysts, and even fans, warn the U.S. automaker needs to up its long-term game to avoid choking on the dust of fast-moving rivals in the world's biggest electric vehicle market.

Most immediately, Tesla's January price cuts drove deliveries of its China-made vehicles up 18% from December. Tesla's thick profit margins have put it in a position to take a price war to competitors in China and beyond, analysts say.

But they say Tesla has lagged competitors in China in introducing new models, improving navigation systems and adding luxe interior touches or white-glove customer service to serve the developing range of consumer preferences for EVs.

"Tesla's facing a serious problem of a very limited product mix," said Cui Dongshu, secretary general of China Passenger Car Association (CPCA). "Its slowness to respond to Chinese consumers' preferences has led to a very passive positioning for Tesla to rely on few means such as price cuts to stay competitive."

Even Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk himself has conceded that China is where his firm could face its toughest competition.

Tesla did not respond to Reuters' request for comment on its China business. Grace Tao, Tesla's vice president in charge of external communications in China, said previously the price cuts in China reflected engineering innovation and answered Beijing's call to encourage economic development and consumption.



China's Association of Automobile Manufacturers expects sales of EVs and plug-in hybrids to surge by 35% in 2023 to 9 million vehicles - nearly a third of China's total new vehicle sales.

While Tesla has increased sales in China, its second-largest market, it has also lost share. From 15% in 2020, its share of the China EV market fell by a third to just 10% in 2022, according to data from the CPCA.

Tesla offers two models in China, the Model 3 sedan and the Model Y crossover. That keep-it-simple approach has driven scale and driven down costs.

After the latest price cuts, the Model 3 starts at about $34,000 and the Model Y at $38,000. But Chinese car shoppers, back out in showrooms this year after the end of China's tough COVID-19 curbs, are being courted by competitors offering a broad range of alternatives.

BYD (002594.SZ), which overtook Tesla by global sales volume last year and has a market value well over $100 billion, offers more than 60 different versions of EV and plug-in hybrid cars. Much smaller but ambitious peer Nio (9866.HK) has gone from two models to six over the same period and plans to launch five more this year.

"The aging product line is a real problem for Tesla," said Yale Zhang, managing director at Shanghai-based consultancy Automotive Foresight. "Once BYD and other EV startups follow to lower prices, the effect of Tesla's price cuts could vanish in the blink of an eye."

NO U-TURN AT TIANANMEN

Tesla's self-driving software and navigation systems, touted by CEO Musk as competitive strengths, have also come under criticism from customers about slow updates and errors on Chinese roads. Luxury EV buyers who employ drivers are less interested in paying more for the software.

Chang Yan, a 34-year-old Chinese auto blogger, who was among Model 3 buyers in China in 2018, said his car still asks him to make U-turns on strictly guarded Chang'an Avenue near Tiananmen Square, where such moves are banned.

"This is a sharp contrast with Nio, (EV brands) Xpeng and Li Auto, whose navigation aids have been working almost perfectly," said Chang, who also drives a Nio sedan.

Tesla has been considering a shift in its marketing in China, focusing more on energy efficiency, practical features and less on cutting-edge functionality, a person with knowledge of the matter said.

It has also been studying how its Chinese rivals, led by BYD, win over customers in showrooms, especially in smaller cities, the person said, declining to be identified citing lack of authorisation to speak to media.

One takeaway: BYD ensures that bottles of drinking water offered to showroom visitors are warm in winter in a nod to local preferences.

Tesla, which early this year promoted its China Chief Tom Zhu to head global sales and production, is also giving its China sales team a more direct line to product development engineers to provide local feedback, the person with knowledge of the matter said.

LESS IS MORE?

To be sure, the Tesla design aesthetic, with sparse interiors and synthetic leather, still appeals to many.

Cui Yang, a 31-year-old doctor shopping for a Tesla in Beijing after the recent price cut, said he was won over by "the minimalist interior style and tech feeling".

On the flipside, Chinese brands like Nio and Zeekr tout their butter-smooth Napa leather and traditional luxury features like seats with massage functions aimed as much at the passenger experience as the driver's.

Some EV makers see that premium segment of the market growing fast in coming years.

Li Auto (2015.HK) is targeting EV buyers looking for cars that can transport families, who expect to pay above Tesla's current pricing, starting at about $44,000, a sales category it expects will represent 10 million vehicles in market-wide sales by 2025.

Then there is a 'buy local' challenge for Tesla.

Chinese consumers like 50-year-old Lin Wenwei, who want to support a Chinese brand - even though Tesla makes the EVs it sells in China.

"I have always been more inclined to buy a domestic EV brand for the national industry," said Lin while he was trying out a Seal sedan for his son in a BYD dealership store in suburban Shanghai - after getting a BYD Dolphin hatchback for himself.






https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ar-2023-02-13/
BYD is outselling Tesla in the Chinese market. They are getting into the European market, and probably very soon they will introduce vehicles in the North American market. I'm sure this has Tesla worried
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Old 02-14-23, 02:02 PM
  #793  
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Tesla is on top. Of two hills.

The electric automaker had the two best-selling vehicles in California last year, edging out Toyota in both the passenger car and light truck categories.

Tesla does not break out sales reports by country or state, but the California New Car Dealers Association tracks sales through new vehicle registrations.

The Tesla Model Y had the most at 87,257 for a 7.6% share of the SUV and truck segment, followed by the Toyota Rav4 at 59,794.





The Tesla Model 3 led cars with 78,935, dethroning the reigning champion Toyota Camry. The Toyota was second in class and fourth overall with 55,967 registrations.

The Tesla Model 3 and Model Y qualify for a $2,000 state tax rebate, while the plug-in hybrid Toyota Rav4 Prime is eligible for $1,000.



Toyota remained the number one brand with a cumulative 289,304 registrations across all of its models, despite dropping 13.8% from the prior year due largely to supply chain issues.

Meanwhile, Tesla secured second place with a 54.4% boost in registrations for its four models accounting for a total of 186,711.

Data firm Motor Intelligence also estimated that the Model Y was the sixth best-selling vehicle in the entire U.S. last year with 252,000 deliveries, while a report from Statista found that it was the fourth best-selling vehicle in the world with approximately 760,000 sales, behind The Toyota Corolla (1,120,000), Toyota Rav4 (870,000) and Ford F-Series (786,000).

Tesla currently builds the Model Y in all four of its factories in California, Texas, Germany and China. In 2021, Musk predicted that the Model Y could be the best-selling car in the world in 2023.





"Seems quite likely at least based on revenue in 2022 & possibly total units in 2023," he tweeted.

During Tesla's fourth quarter earnings call in January, Musk said the company expects to increase total deliveries by 37% to 52% in 2023.

If it hits the high end of that range, and the growth is spread equally across its model lines, the Model Y would reach 1,140,000 deliveries, putting it in a position to claim the global best-selling title.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...ling-cars-2022
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Old 02-14-23, 02:07 PM
  #794  
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If it hits the high end of that range, and the growth is spread equally across its model lines, the Model Y would reach 1,140,000 deliveries, putting it in a position to claim the global best-selling title.
If this happens I think it will make the Model Y the fastest growing sales of any car in history. Model T might have it beat though not sure.
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Old 02-14-23, 02:45 PM
  #795  
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Ferrari CEO Says Tesla Was A "Wake-Up Call" For The Auto Industry

"Things used to happen too slowly" before Tesla, Benedetto Vigna said in a recent interview




Ferrari and Tesla don't have much in common other than the fact they produce ridiculously fast vehicles – though they arrive at that result in very different ways.

Ferrari has pledged to have EVs make up 40 percent of its sales by 2030, which means Maranello may have a thing or two to learn from Tesla. Ferrari CEO Benedetto Vigna doesn't shy away from admitting that the Italian company founded in 1939 actually has a lot to learn from the 20-year-old EV startup.

In an interview with Bloomberg, Vigna complimented Tesla, crediting it with accelerating change within an automotive industry dominated by the internal combustion engine. Asked what Ferrari learned from Tesla, the executive said the big contribution that Tesla has made to the automotive industry was being "a wake-up call."
"Things used to happen too slowly. Tesla shook up the industry and accelerated processes and decisions. They were faster and more agile."
Vigna doesn't see Tesla as a rival, though, even though he says the Prancing Horse is on track to unveil its first all-electric vehicle in 2025 before bringing it to market in 2026. "For me, it's a functional car. It's meant to go from one point to another," he said when asked how he considers Tesla.



Ferrari, on the other hand, makes "emotional cars that give you a unique driving experience," Vigna noted.

One could argue that the long-overdue second-generation Tesla Roadster with its claimed explosive performance might be seen by some as a Ferrari competitor, but that's a premature assessment given that neither a Ferrari EV nor the Tesla Roadster are available.

Ferrari's CEO also dismissed claims that Ferrari has been slower when it comes to electrification than some competitors.

"That's not true. I just think a company like us can't impose any choice on clients, and that's why we'll keep offering a mix of technology for as long as it's feasible," Vigna said, with the mix meaning ICEs, hybrids and fully electric models. Ferrari currently builds two electrified models, the SF90 and 296 plug-in hybrids available in coupe and convertible body styles.

He noted that electrification is a new way for Ferrari to provide its customers a unique driving experience, adding that the company's EV powertrains will give customers "the same thrills of combustion engines." According to Vigna, the key is "how to extract the best emotion from the use of this technology, giving something unique to the clients."

https://insideevs.com/news/652293/fe...auto-industry/
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