Tesla business discussion
03-22-23, 01:23 PM
#1336
Lexus Champion
As vision only FSD has evolved it's become basically flawless at interpreting camera inputs into a 3D space. The system knows what is moving and what isn't to a high degree of accuracy. That part is solved, now augmenting that with other types of sensors is the cherry on top.
Unfortunately the intricacies of the above is continuously ignored by some and we simply get Elon is bad Elon is an idiot. Burn the engineers that don't agree with Elon. Not exactly productive discussion.
03-22-23, 01:28 PM
#1337
Lexus Champion
This is where the trouble began, how do you decide which is the true image, camera or RADAR? If the camera doesn't see something in theory the whole point of RADAR is it does. What if RADAR is wrong? Which it often is. Then you have a coding conundrum, filter out when RADAR is correct and when vision is correct. And decide when vision can't see something and RADAR can, if RADAR is in fact seeing a legit object. Apparently Tesla has found a way to get much more reliable RADAR images, we'll see.
As vision only FSD has evolved it's become basically flawless at interpreting camera inputs into a 3D space. The system knows what is moving and what isn't to a high degree of accuracy. That part is solved, now augmenting that with other types of sensors is the cherry on top.
Unfortunately the intricacies of the above is continuously ignored by some and we simply get Elon is bad Elon is an idiot. Burn the engineers that don't agree with Elon. Not exactly productive discussion.
As vision only FSD has evolved it's become basically flawless at interpreting camera inputs into a 3D space. The system knows what is moving and what isn't to a high degree of accuracy. That part is solved, now augmenting that with other types of sensors is the cherry on top.
Unfortunately the intricacies of the above is continuously ignored by some and we simply get Elon is bad Elon is an idiot. Burn the engineers that don't agree with Elon. Not exactly productive discussion.
03-22-23, 01:40 PM
#1338
Lexus Champion
How many "industry experts" over the years have said Tesla can't do what they end up doing. Can't make an electric car with good range, can't make an affordable electric car. Tesla will never be able to scale. Tesla will never sell 500k cars a year. Large castings will never work. There is no charging network electric cars will never be viable. I could go on and on.
The above and more has been said by current and former CEOs, engineers etc. you name it. Bob Lutz was adamant Tesla can't do what they plan to and ended up doing. Bill Gates said Tesla Semi is impossible it violates the laws of physics. Convention is a very powerful barrier.
03-22-23, 01:54 PM
#1339
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I've watched many FSD beta vids 99% of the mistakes have zero to do with seeing the road.
There are cases where vision can't see the road correctly, but that is not a neural network software problem,
And that is not even getting into RADAR having serious issues differentiating between stationary and moving objects. Hello phantom braking.
But I get it, RADAR is seen as some sort of fix all. I simply don't know why.
blind is blind. no amount of software can fix cameras that can't see.
RADAR was giving phantom imagery so they got rid of it.
There are some conditions you can't drive in including humans. Even aircraft gets grounded and guess what kind of tech they use.
Tesla designed their own RADAR unit and is adding that back. Not the same thing they removed.
This is where the trouble began, how do you decide which is the true image, camera or RADAR? If the camera doesn't see something in theory the whole point of RADAR is it does. What if RADAR is wrong? Which it often is. Then you have a coding conundrum, filter out when RADAR is correct and when vision is correct. And decide when vision can't see something and RADAR can, if RADAR is in fact seeing a legit object. Apparently Tesla has found a way to get much more reliable RADAR images, we'll see.
As vision only FSD has evolved it's become basically flawless at interpreting camera inputs into a 3D space.
Unfortunately the intricacies of the above is continuously ignored by some and we simply get Elon is bad Elon is an idiot.
Burn the engineers that don't agree with Elon. Not exactly productive discussion.
03-22-23, 01:58 PM
#1340
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Because they are stuck in the old paradigm. What may work now or perceived to work is the only way to ever do anything. Period. We see that exact sentiment in this thread.
How many "industry experts" over the years have said Tesla can't do what they end up doing. Can't make an electric car with good range, can't make an affordable electric car. Tesla will never be able to scale. Tesla will never sell 500k cars a year. Large castings will never work. There is no charging network electric cars will never be viable. I could go on and on.
The above and more has been said by current and former CEOs, engineers etc. you name it. Bob Lutz was adamant Tesla can't do what they plan to and ended up doing. Bill Gates said Tesla Semi is impossible it violates the laws of physics. Convention is a very powerful barrier.
How many "industry experts" over the years have said Tesla can't do what they end up doing. Can't make an electric car with good range, can't make an affordable electric car. Tesla will never be able to scale. Tesla will never sell 500k cars a year. Large castings will never work. There is no charging network electric cars will never be viable. I could go on and on.
The above and more has been said by current and former CEOs, engineers etc. you name it. Bob Lutz was adamant Tesla can't do what they plan to and ended up doing. Bill Gates said Tesla Semi is impossible it violates the laws of physics. Convention is a very powerful barrier.
to say tesla will 'never' accomplish something is pretty foolish. i've been critical of some things but i still applaud what they've accomplished and what they're planning to do (even if their announced time frames are always a joke).
03-23-23, 07:35 AM
#1341
Pole Position
Ford lost $2.1 billion in their EV business (source https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/23/ford...inancials.html). There was a separate thread on here about Porsche raising prices to their ICE lineup to compensate for losses in their EV lineup. These companies are figuring out that making EV's is not nearly as simple as they thought.
It's interesting how these traditional manufacturers are having to figure out ways to increase margin on non-EV's (raising prices) while the customers continue to demonstrate a desire to move to EV's. Talk about choppy waters for them to navigate. Advantage: Tesla.
It's interesting how these traditional manufacturers are having to figure out ways to increase margin on non-EV's (raising prices) while the customers continue to demonstrate a desire to move to EV's. Talk about choppy waters for them to navigate. Advantage: Tesla.
03-23-23, 08:01 AM
#1342
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^^ good post. from what i've read i suspected pretty much everyone other than tesla is losing a fortune on ev's. not a good business model long term!
no doubt they're all trying to figure out how to lower costs, but as you say, choppy waters indeed, and a GIANT advantage to tesla, likely for years to come.
i don't know if hyundai/kia/genesis is losing their behind on ev's as well, but they seem like the company most likely to be able to make a profitable go of it. that is, besides chinese companies like byd, although i don't know.
no doubt they're all trying to figure out how to lower costs, but as you say, choppy waters indeed, and a GIANT advantage to tesla, likely for years to come.
i don't know if hyundai/kia/genesis is losing their behind on ev's as well, but they seem like the company most likely to be able to make a profitable go of it. that is, besides chinese companies like byd, although i don't know.
03-23-23, 08:12 AM
#1343
Pole Position
^^^ good post. from what i've read i suspected pretty much everyone other than tesla is losing a fortune on ev's. not a good business model long term!
no doubt they're all trying to figure out how to lower costs, but as you say, choppy waters indeed, and a GIANT advantage to tesla, likely for years to come.
i don't know if hyundai/kia/genesis is losing their behind on ev's as well, but they seem like the company most likely to be able to make a profitable go of it. that is, besides chinese companies like byd, although i don't know.
no doubt they're all trying to figure out how to lower costs, but as you say, choppy waters indeed, and a GIANT advantage to tesla, likely for years to come.
i don't know if hyundai/kia/genesis is losing their behind on ev's as well, but they seem like the company most likely to be able to make a profitable go of it. that is, besides chinese companies like byd, although i don't know.
I'm a TSLA shareholder but I'm not rooting against any of these "traditional" manufacturers.
03-23-23, 08:22 AM
#1344
Lexus Champion
It would be hard to be the CEO of one of these companies right now. The market is shifting towards EV more each year, but you lose money in that product category. So you have to figure out how to scale/increase production in that category (almost like a "loss leader") and find the balance of lowering production in your ICE line (fewer models) but also walking the line of how you increase margin in ICE to offset your EV losses.
I'm a TSLA shareholder but I'm not rooting against any of these "traditional" manufacturers.
I'm a TSLA shareholder but I'm not rooting against any of these "traditional" manufacturers.
03-23-23, 09:46 AM
#1345
Lexus Champion
Tesla Shares How Musk's "Plaid Mode" Means Acceleration Of Progress
It seems CEO Elon Musk had much more in mind than EV acceleration when engaging "Plaid Mode."
If you follow Tesla, you likely already knew that "Plaid" has something to do with acceleration. However, while many people think of Elon Musk's Plaid simply as a performance car or a specific mode for the quickest acceleration, it's actually something Musk talks about when it comes to accelerating the company as a whole, primarily via software successes.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk is a huge fan of Spaceballs, and that's where the Plaid and Ludicrous references come from. The quirky and outspoken CEO also likes to share memes and talk in code at times, this way only some people will truly understand what he's sharing.
With that said, it recently came to light that Musk had much more in mind than Model S acceleration when engaging "Plaid Mode." As reported by Teslarati, Tesla recently spoke with the media at an event in China. Vice President of Global Software Engineering David Lau shared at the event that Tesla's Plaid Mode applies to software development as much as it does EV performance, though the two are obviously related.
A few of the topics at the event included, “Enabling Plaid Mode in Software Development” and “How Tesla’s Software Development Maintains Plaid Speed.” An attendee of the event shared some of Lau's words with Teslarati. The VP explained:
“Tesla has always been challenging tradition, challenging industry conventional thinking, and challenging its own comfort zone… This is indeed difficult, but as long as we keep pushing ourselves to continuously break through boundaries, there is nothing that cannot be achieved."
In moving from the already impressive "Ludicrous Mode" to the ridiculous "Plaid Mode," Tesla and Elon Musk are working to prove that they can continue to push the envelope. The goal is to be hyper-disruptive and bring new innovations to market that will transform the industry. Moreover, to do so at the speed of Plaid.
Tesla China reiterated Lau's words in a related press release, sharing that the company's teams "have a persistent pursuit of disruptive innovation and breakthroughs." They work in an environment that caters to engineers and attracts some of the top experts in their fields.
For Tesla to "accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy” at Plaid speed, it needs to develop successful new software and implement it as quickly as possible. Moreover, this also encourages rivals to step up their game.
Lau made it very clear in his presentation that Tesla really is a software company and a clear leader in the space. While the average person may simply see the company as an automaker, it goes far beyond producing EVs. Without the software, Tesla arguably wouldn't be anywhere near where it is today.
https://insideevs.com/news/658496/te...-acceleration/
03-23-23, 10:14 AM
#1346
Lexus Fanatic
Ford lost $2.1 billion in their EV business (source https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/23/ford...inancials.html). There was a separate thread on here about Porsche raising prices to their ICE lineup to compensate for losses in their EV lineup. These companies are figuring out that making EV's is not nearly as simple as they thought.
It's interesting how these traditional manufacturers are having to figure out ways to increase margin on non-EV's (raising prices) while the customers continue to demonstrate a desire to move to EV's. Talk about choppy waters for them to navigate. Advantage: Tesla.
It's interesting how these traditional manufacturers are having to figure out ways to increase margin on non-EV's (raising prices) while the customers continue to demonstrate a desire to move to EV's. Talk about choppy waters for them to navigate. Advantage: Tesla.
03-23-23, 10:31 AM
#1347
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
if, for example, someone is ev shopping and sees a tesla model is $10K less than a comparable other brand model, it's going to be hard for the customer to choose the non-tesla, even if they don't like everything about the tesla.
03-23-23, 10:33 AM
#1348
Lexus Fanatic
03-23-23, 10:46 AM
#1349
Lexus Champion
If Toyota cut prices by 20% they would lose boat loads of money. Tesla has massive pricing power via margins Toyota does not.
03-23-23, 10:46 AM
#1350
Lexus Champion
Tesla's Q1 sales are up 32 percent from Q1 2022. Model Y is completely sold out for Q1 2023. Doesn't sound like a demand problem to me. If there is a demand problem, please explain it, and explain why Tesla is expanding it's existing factories and building new ones. If I had a demand problem, I wouldn't build or expand factories. It's all about moving inventory faster and undercutting the competition, Tesla has huge profit margins it can work with which other auto companies don't have that luxury
Last edited by AMIRZA786; 03-23-23 at 11:21 AM.