Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

LOL I'm no saint. But thanks, we just need to understand everyone has an opinion, and most things are subjective. I love cars, the good, the bad, and the ugly in them.

Anyway I thought it was a funny story, and fun kindling for a budding EV rivalry between Porsche and Tesla

LeX2K

A rivalry to build the fastest, cleanest car out there sounds good to me. Bring it on.

coolsaber

Ouch! x2 lol

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don’t know your background but that’s not how business or government, or most people’s personal finances work. Apple has 200 billion in cash yet recently just BORROWED 7 billion. to you that probably doesn’t make sense, but it makes perfect sense. Background here: https://heisenbergreport.com/2019/09...illion-anyway/

In a more mundane example, if a person or couple has a net worth of say $100,000, why would they borrow $500,000 to buy a home? Your absolute statements above would say that should never be ‘encouraged’ yet millions of people do it every year and it makes perfect sense. Yes, they’re betting they can cover the repayment over time, plus growth in equity if a home appreciates in value helps them out too, so it’s a leveraged investment.

Debt is a tool just like cash, stock, payables, receivables, bonds, etc. it can be useful, or misused, or a death sentence. It is not absolutely bad and does not always need to be swept under the carpet.

You talk about Hoovey being neutral and unbiased and maybe he is more than most, yet you often comment in absolutes that are absolutely not neutral or unbiased. But hey, we’re ALL biased.

And now you’ll probably reply that i ‘missed your point’ or something, but either way... just responding to what you wrote.

Again, we agree that no one knows how the Tesla company will do longer term. With Rivian getting some ENORMOUS investors like Ford and Amazon and with traditional companies slowly building responses to Tesla, Tesla will be squeezed, and yes, at some point cash will be an issue but they can always issue more stock if they still seem to have a future path...

peteharvey

Bitkahuna, you continually make these inferences about my posts without providing direct evidence.
You show me where I said/inferred that anyone couldn't borrow money, or that borrowing money was a no no.

Sure we all borrow, even Toyota Motor Corp borrows, and TMC has some 200 billion in equity in 2018 vs Tesla's 4.9 billion in equity [assets less liabilities like loans etc].

The important point is to be able to take the gravy with the dirt, and accept both the good and the bad.
Is that so hard to do?
Otherwise you just turn into a biased Tesla fanboy, instead of a neutral moderator.

A financial loss is a financial loss. What is the big deal? You can't accept that?
We can't just trumpet the good points of Tesla - only to eschew - to turn a blind eye to their financial losses, and have those financial losses swept under the carpet - let alone hide inside the brick chimney.

Remember, short term nothing wrong with Tesla's losses - apart from at least raising a few eyebrows.
We just have to be patient, and wait and see the long term outcome of Tesla.

Before you start inferring again, I never said that Tesla's financial losses means that it's the end of the world - I am merely saying that Tesla's current short term financial losses is never a good sign.



Sorry, I was busy before.
Apart from motor vehicles, Toyota Motor Corp also produce robots, and they also have a financial services arm. However, rarely does anyone ever bring these topics up to make "excuses" for TMC like a biased Tesla fan boy.
Since its inception in 1937, Toyota Motor Corp has only ever posted one financial loss, and that was back in the 2008 GFC.
Toyota Motor Corp has very remarkably different financial performance to Tesla.

Tesla certainly have their strengths and weaknesses.
Again, I remind you that presently, Tesla cannot be written off just because of their losses, borrowings, and stockmarket capital raising - because these are only short term, and it's still only early days.

It's not about the battle, but about the war.
We need not worry about short term losses, but long term outcomes.
Long term, only time can tell how Tesla will pan out....



https://www.carthrottle.com/post/tes...utely-nothing/

Tesla’s Brief And Bizarre Nurburgring Stint Proves Absolutely Nothing

With Tesla’s plans to set a new production EV lap record around the Green Hell left drowning in caveats, we reflect on what the manoeuvre actually achieved

Tesla is a company built on the bluff and bluster of one very clever engineer. Elon Musk had a feeling he could make an electric car that was light years ahead of anything else out there. He (eventually) made it work well (enough) and sold the idea to a hardcore fanbase of people who have come to regard Musk in the same way as the ancient Egyptians felt about men with long plaited beards and very tall hats. He’s like a god to them.

That means his words are gospel to some folk. They treat them like pure whispers of heaven dispensed through the intertubes right to their very own screens at home, or at work, or at the kind of hipster cafe that serves organic vegan frappa-mappa-whappa-mochaccinos for $10 a cup. In the eyes and hearts of the Teslarati, he can literally do no wrong.

Of course, that leads to instances where Tesla and/or Musk says or does something that the rest of us think is a bit strange, lacking in substance or just plain silly, and while the gasping Tesla forums go dizzy with delight, the rest of us sit there and ponder what the hell we’re missing.

This week’s Nurburgring debacle is a prime example. Out comes the Porsche Taycan to set a quick lap time in production spec. It duly does so, and we’re impressed. Tesla then jumps in out of nowhere and says it’s going to beat it, delivering a very un-production-spec Model S to the track and pumping it around so hard that it broke. Amusingly, a sedately-piloted Taycan was seen to overtake the fainted Model S as a recovery truck began its work.

Anyway, the point is this: Tesla said it was going to beat the Taycan around the track. Technically, and certainly, in the eyes of the faithful, it did. But to achieve it the playing field was wildly distorted. Take the Goodyear F1 Supercar 3R track day tyres, worth plenty of seconds on their own. Then there’s the fact that these are wider tyres than the current Model S standard, under wider arches with a wider track. There are another few seconds for you over and above the standard Model S’ s capability.

Then there’s the fact that the car in question was apparently totally stripped out and was running a prototype three-motor setup – one motor more than the Taycan – on the way to posting a time almost 20 seconds faster than the Taycan’s. Because of all this smoke and mirrors about the exact spec, and the fact that little of it may actually see service on a road-going version, you can’t possibly compare the two times.

That said, all that posturing will be enough for those people who say a prayer to Elon over their breakfasts. The unrepresentative lap time, the dubious spec enhancements and the claims that the circa 7m20s lap time is ‘just a start’ will be enough to have Muskovites frothing at the eyeballs and hammering their keyboards hard enough to break Twitter.

The Plaid Mode three-motor powertrain will also feature in the Tesla Roadster

And yet. Those of us not possessed of the demonic Elon-obsession know that pretty much nothing of public value has been achieved. No points have been scored and no victories have been recorded, moral or otherwise. Tesla simply turned up with a heavily modified product that then went faster than a totally street-standard rival. That’s about as notable as news that a dog has attempted to hump a stranger’s leg, whatever the company says about posting a 7m05s lap next time.

Look beneath the skin, though; beneath the pointless Twitter nonsense from handles like TeslaLover, ElonFan and MarryMeMusk. What you’ll see is a company being led the way it always has been; by bluff and bluster. Shout your opinion loudly enough for long enough to the right people and eventually, it becomes fact. Just take a glance at Western politics for proof. With this non-event at the ‘Ring Tesla has bought itself vast amounts of column inches, and just maybe some more investment into its latest and fastest projects. Perhaps that was the point we were missing.
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Toys4RJill

There is a huge difference between borrowing money (with money in the bank) vs going to the bank and asking for a loan. Toyota borrowing money is completely different than Tesla getting loans. Cash is always king, those that have cash usually obtain more favorable lending rates etc.

The Apple argument and loans is a weird one. The money Apple is sitting on is not in the US, bringing it back and paying the taxes on it would cost far more than if they just went out and got a loan. But they still got the $$$....Tesla does not..