F150 Lightning
12-16-21, 09:49 AM
#166
Lexus Champion
As I mentioned in my Lightning video, I agree that anyone looking to do lots of long hauls and/or towing should stick with gas or diesel for now. That's not what this truck does best (acceleration, handling, backup power source, day trips, etc.)
But that's the interesting thing about trucks -- almost every owner uses them differently. Some are effectively family sedans with the capability for weekend projects, some are for off-roading adventures, some go to construction sites and sit all day, some tow and do long distances...
As one example, my Grandfather spent the last 35 years of his life doing what he loved -- working outdoors. He traded in and bought a new truck every two years, using them for his lawn care and handyman business. Building decks and fences. Siding and roofing houses. Painting. Yards of mulch scooped into the bed. Dump runs. Brush and debris removal. Mowing 14 lawns a week through his 80s.
And he never once towed because that wasn't part of his business or needs.
An EV truck, had it been available during his lifetime, would have been perfect for his type of truck ownership. Drive around all day in town -- well under 230 miles -- fully loaded. Work a full day. Plug it in at night. Rinse and repeat.
I'm not trying to say anyone NEEDS the Lightning, and I get that it's scary to see a massive industry change coming in the next 15 years. But I don't think companies are going to drop gas and diesel trucks on the same timeline and in the same way that, say, the Lexus IS sedan goes EV-only. Plus, even if new car gas engines (for not large trucks) go away by 2035, it's not like that's the end of the cycle. Folks will still have a century-plus worth of older vehicles on the road. And used gas vehicles will dominate the roadways for another decade beyond whatever line in the sand is drawn.
So that means the world has almost 25 years to make better EVs, create cleaner batteries, and build infrastructure... which is a massive amount of time for the government and private sector to make changes. On that timeline, 25 years ago, "fast" American cars were just starting to pass 300hp, Lexus hadn't released the RX in the states, and people still bought actual ars (not crossovers or SUVs). Today, you can buy an 800hp sedan from Dodge, a 760hp Mustang, the RX is the number one Lexus vehicle of all time, and sedans are all but gone.
What comes next? We're in for some interesting times!
But that's the interesting thing about trucks -- almost every owner uses them differently. Some are effectively family sedans with the capability for weekend projects, some are for off-roading adventures, some go to construction sites and sit all day, some tow and do long distances...
As one example, my Grandfather spent the last 35 years of his life doing what he loved -- working outdoors. He traded in and bought a new truck every two years, using them for his lawn care and handyman business. Building decks and fences. Siding and roofing houses. Painting. Yards of mulch scooped into the bed. Dump runs. Brush and debris removal. Mowing 14 lawns a week through his 80s.
And he never once towed because that wasn't part of his business or needs.
An EV truck, had it been available during his lifetime, would have been perfect for his type of truck ownership. Drive around all day in town -- well under 230 miles -- fully loaded. Work a full day. Plug it in at night. Rinse and repeat.
I'm not trying to say anyone NEEDS the Lightning, and I get that it's scary to see a massive industry change coming in the next 15 years. But I don't think companies are going to drop gas and diesel trucks on the same timeline and in the same way that, say, the Lexus IS sedan goes EV-only. Plus, even if new car gas engines (for not large trucks) go away by 2035, it's not like that's the end of the cycle. Folks will still have a century-plus worth of older vehicles on the road. And used gas vehicles will dominate the roadways for another decade beyond whatever line in the sand is drawn.
So that means the world has almost 25 years to make better EVs, create cleaner batteries, and build infrastructure... which is a massive amount of time for the government and private sector to make changes. On that timeline, 25 years ago, "fast" American cars were just starting to pass 300hp, Lexus hadn't released the RX in the states, and people still bought actual ars (not crossovers or SUVs). Today, you can buy an 800hp sedan from Dodge, a 760hp Mustang, the RX is the number one Lexus vehicle of all time, and sedans are all but gone.
What comes next? We're in for some interesting times!
12-16-21, 10:26 AM
#167
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
uh, 5 x 20k is 100k, no? 
without getting political, govts at all level influence (taxes, credits), regulate (permits, rules, laws), require or ban things all the time. if one day there's a sizeable ICE truck tax, it would have an impact on the market.
great post and agreed on all points. 
That's the point I've always tried to hammer in...ICE vehicles are not going away. Not in a long time. A full on switch will take at least another 20 years. Also as you stated, for things like heavy duty towing and long distance hauling, gasoline/diesel is still the best option. EV's make the most sense at this point for those who have access to charging at home or nearby charging stations. Now what will probably be going away is the bigger displacement engines replaced by downsized turbocharged and hybrid
12-16-21, 12:18 PM
#168
Lexus Champion
Yes, AMZIRA, agreed. It's nice to see an EV owner/fan who has a realistic POV on the future of them and ICE.
12-16-21, 12:27 PM
#169
12-16-21, 12:31 PM
#170
That's the point I've always tried to hammer in...ICE vehicles are not going away. Not in a long time. A full on switch will take at least another 20 years. Also as you stated, for things like heavy duty towing and long distance hauling, gasoline/diesel is still the best option. EV's make the most sense at this point for those who have access to charging at home or nearby charging stations. Now what will probably be going away is the bigger displacement engines replaced by downsized turbocharged and hybrid
It's not a SuperDuty, but the F-150 PowerBoost is awesome -- https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles...ter-than-ever/ -- Note that I did NOT tow with it, but it was a beast 0-60, and got almost 20mpg (despite off-roading and lots of 0-60 testing... you know, for science). A lightfooted driver could probably do a lot better.
Now imagine a version of that system on the 7.3 gasser or 6.7 diesel and it could really improve fuel economy without adding too much complexity.
12-16-21, 12:43 PM
#171
Lexus Champion
The Ford Dealer just called me today asking me if I wanted to turn my Pre-order into an Order. He told me delivery would be mid to Fall 2022. I told him to give me a couple of days to think on it, because once I commit, I have to buy, meaning any deposit I put on the actual order would be forfeited if I pull out
12-16-21, 12:52 PM
#172
Lexus Champion
The Ford Dealer just called me today asking me if I wanted to turn my Pre-order into an Order. He told me delivery would be mid to Fall 2022. I told him to give me a couple of days to think on it, because once I commit, I have to buy, meaning any deposit I put on the actual order would be forfeited if I pull out
12-16-21, 12:52 PM
#173
Lexus Champion
That's a great point about hybrid trucks. I bet we see a bunch of those in the future... there's a slight reduction in max tow capacity (similar to adding options like 4x4 -- it's about the overall truck weight)... but you get a huge torque boost, and get to keep the long haul driving and quick fillups.
It's not a SuperDuty, but the F-150 PowerBoost is awesome -- https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles...ter-than-ever/ -- Note that I did NOT tow with it, but it was a beast 0-60, and got almost 20mpg (despite off-roading and lots of 0-60 testing... you know, for science). A lightfooted driver could probably do a lot better.
Now imagine a version of that system on the 7.3 gasser or 6.7 diesel and it could really improve fuel economy without adding too much complexity.
It's not a SuperDuty, but the F-150 PowerBoost is awesome -- https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles...ter-than-ever/ -- Note that I did NOT tow with it, but it was a beast 0-60, and got almost 20mpg (despite off-roading and lots of 0-60 testing... you know, for science). A lightfooted driver could probably do a lot better.
Now imagine a version of that system on the 7.3 gasser or 6.7 diesel and it could really improve fuel economy without adding too much complexity.
12-16-21, 12:57 PM
#174
Lexus Champion
Actually I still want it, but I just leased the PoleStar, I was thinking I would just hold on to my Sienna for one more year as I was thinking the F-150 won't actually be available for delivery until 2023. The price is actually not bad, the one I want is in the $50K range, that is unless they decide to jack up the price later
12-16-21, 01:01 PM
#175
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
my point was, ford could well reasonably choose to stop taking any further reservations for now if they see there's enough already made to account for several years of production.but as AMIRZA786 just learned, ford is now trying to get people to commit, which i smart, and flush out those who aren't really serious.
12-16-21, 01:06 PM
#176
Lexus Champion
my 20k was not based on any facts. my point was, ford could well reasonably choose to stop taking any further reservations for now if they see there's enough already made to account for several years of production.
but as AMIRZA786 just learned, ford is now trying to get people to commit, which i smart, and flush out those who aren't really serious.
my point was, ford could well reasonably choose to stop taking any further reservations for now if they see there's enough already made to account for several years of production.but as AMIRZA786 just learned, ford is now trying to get people to commit, which i smart, and flush out those who aren't really serious.
12-16-21, 01:38 PM
#177
Lexus Test Driver
You could probably flip it and make a profit. I'd take deliver of it no matter what. Also, the truck is going to sell like gangbusters. Many people want to own a truck for light duty work around the house and also as a family car. Its a RARE day i see a truck towing anything...ever. A lot of people will find it compelling as it gets 75 MPGe vs. the terrible gas mileage that you see on those V8s.
12-16-21, 01:56 PM
#178
Lexus Champion
You could probably flip it and make a profit. I'd take deliver of it no matter what. Also, the truck is going to sell like gangbusters. Many people want to own a truck for light duty work around the house and also as a family car. Its a RARE day i see a truck towing anything...ever. A lot of people will find it compelling as it gets 75 MPGe vs. the terrible gas mileage that you see on those V8s.
12-20-21, 03:52 AM
#179
https://www.engadget.com/ford-f-150-...092329022.html
Lightning battery sizes - 98 kWh standard range (230 miles/charge) and 131 kWh (300 miles/charge)
Basically the same as the Rivian R1T that gets 316 out of the 135 kWh in the standard trim.
Lightning battery sizes - 98 kWh standard range (230 miles/charge) and 131 kWh (300 miles/charge)
Basically the same as the Rivian R1T that gets 316 out of the 135 kWh in the standard trim.
12-20-21, 03:34 PM
#180
Pole Position
The Ford Dealer just called me today asking me if I wanted to turn my Pre-order into an Order. He told me delivery would be mid to Fall 2022. I told him to give me a couple of days to think on it, because once I commit, I have to buy, meaning any deposit I put on the actual order would be forfeited if I pull out