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Exactly. Keep Lexus quality and refinement, yet make something people want to drive.
Yes, the new LS 500 is updated, yet at the same time it missed the mark. I would love an LS, but with the Tesla electric motor and drivetrain.
I am not bashing on Lexus, but they appear to be slow to react. How many years did we wait for the LS? Also, still waiting on the next Tundra, Sequoia and LX. I hope they don’t screw that up. I will test drive the all new Tundra as soon as they hit the lots. Same for the Sequoia and LX.
I always thought Lexus was about luxury, and extreme reliability. some say the S is not a luxury car. So it’s so strange that people want Lexus to replicate what Tesla does. There is not even a sunroof in Tesla S or cooling seats or other such amenities.
Nobody wants Lexus to replicate a Tesla............. "Luxury" is a personal definition in my opinion. I couldn't care less about massaging seats, exquisite tufted leather dashboard and doors etc. So your definition of luxury doesn't necessarily mean that my definition of luxury is the same.
The refreshed Model S now has ventilated/cooled seats. I know you don't care about Tesla's and I will not try to convince anyone to buy one other than telling you my personal experience. However, since you're an active member of a car forum, you owe it to yourself to put aside your lack of enthusiasm related to all things EV's and Tesla's in particular and go drive one and then come back here let us know what you really think. Forget about not being able to charge at home or not wanting to waste your time charging on a trip etc, just drive one first and let us know what you think.
But it’s got 0-60mph that’s for sure.
I couldn't care less about the 0-60 in 2.x seconds. Even though this is a big deal with EV's, not everyone buys an EV because of that.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Lexus was always about luxury, refinement, high quality, and value. When people say they want Lexus to build a car like Tesla, they mean a car that as the attributes of a Lexus including a high quality luxury interior alongside a well performing long range EV powertrain. It doesnt need to go 0-60 in 2 seconds to be that.
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How can there be no future in EV tech on a massive scale, yet almighty Toyota who is so smart we just don't understand have a plan for 25 EV models?
And saying what your goal is and showing that you are building towards that goal are two different things. We see nothing basically from Toyota, yet we see many examples from other companies with far less resources than Toyota. Bottom line is they are many years behind their competitors with development of this tech, which is why we don't see it anywhere. "We'll be just like everybody else in 15 years" doesn't impress me. Toyota should be toe to toe with Tesla with this tech NOW.
I can say in 5 years I want to be Mr Universe but considering I've drank 5 Mountain Dews today and havent exercised in many, many years that doesnt mean much lol.
Besides investing in EVs, manufacturers must also invest in charging infrastructure, and I don't know if Toyota being a Japanese company can easily invest in US charging infrastructure. I don't know how Tesla pays for their charging infrastructure, as the customers only barely cover the cost of electricity they use with nothing going to cover the cost of construction, equipment and real estate. Perhaps Tesla is getting government subsidies that are not available to foreign companies?
Maybe I have just missed it, but what are Honda's and Nissan's plans for BEVs? Have they announced anything to compete with Tesla and others?
Likely going off topic here, but Nissan is now part of the alliance with Renault and Mitsubishi, so there will be lots of platform sharing between them. Nissan's upcoming Ariya (whenever it gets released) looks to be a very compelling EV CUV and an excellent replacement for the Leaf. Assuming they price it right.
Honda is well behind on their BEV development (although I would LOVE to have the Honda e here as a second/city car), and basically depending on their partnership with GM for their near future BEVs. Reminds me of the early days in the 90s when Honda was dragged kicking and screaming into the SUV/CUV world by rebranding the Isuzu/GM-based SUVs. And look where they are today with CUVs.
Besides investing in EVs, manufacturers must also invest in charging infrastructure, and I don't know if Toyota being a Japanese company can easily invest in US charging infrastructure. I don't know how Tesla pays for their charging infrastructure, as the customers only barely cover the cost of electricity they use with nothing going to cover the cost of construction, equipment and real estate. Perhaps Tesla is getting government subsidies that are not available to foreign companies?
The cost of this infrastructure is in their P&L as a depreciating asset. Thats why you see them barely break even but they have high gross margins on their cars. If you see their cash flow statement, they actually make sizeable profit on their cars but its offset by investment in capex which includes the charging infrastructure and factories. Its a brilliant strategy that has led them to dominate the EV space thus far. You bet they sell a ton of cars due to the available infrastructure. Right now, Electrify America is expanding rapidly but nowhere as good unfortunately. I really hope they do catch up as Teslas can use any charger including EA.
Maybe I have just missed it, but what are Honda's and Nissan's plans for BEVs? Have they announced anything to compete with Tesla and others?
Don't know about Honda but Toyota has been consistently vague saying by 2030 they will be selling 5.5 million "electrified" vehicles per year. So about half will be a mix of FCEV, BEV, hybrid. If we go back 9 years -
September 24, 2012 7:08 AM
Japanese automaker Toyota has killed plans for a widespread launch of its second all-electric car, the eQ, citing a drastic misreading of the market and capabilities of electric vehicles.
Electric cars are becoming more ubiquitous with the Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf, and Ford Focus Electric all attracting headlines for breaking ground. However, Toyota could now be casting doubt on the viability of these vehicles.
In 2010, Toyota said it would sell several thousand of its battery-powered eQ when it officially launched the new model. Now it plans to sell just 100 eQ vehicles in the U.S. and Japan.
“Two years later, there are many difficulties,” Toyota’s vice chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada told reporters Monday. “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars can run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”
Toyota will launch just a single all-electric vehicle in the U.S., a new RAV4 that was developed with Tesla Motors. The company thinks it will sell 2,600 of the new RAV4 during the next three years.
The company will instead refocus efforts on its successful hybrid cars. Toyota said it plans to have 21 new hybrid gas-electric models that are similar in nature to the popular Prius ready to go by 2015.
This is a monumental blunder. Not only did they decide EVs were not the future they partnered with Tesla, (also invested) then said nope this is not the way. Sold their stake in Tesla and sat on their hands. Exact opposite of what I expect from Toyota, they did the hard work and thought long term with their hybrid technology. Should have done exactly the same thing with BEVs. Toyota said pursuing BEVs at the time was a "a drastic misreading of the market" sorry Toyota that's what you did. Heads should be rolling and Toyota changing course ASAP but they are doubling and tripling down on their milquetoast strategy.
I give full credit to VW for taking a massive punch to the gut with dieselgate and having having the courage to drastically alter strategy. Maybe that's what Toyota needs they have become far too comfortable.
Besides investing in EVs, manufacturers must also invest in charging infrastructure, and I don't know if Toyota being a Japanese company can easily invest in US charging infrastructure. I don't know how Tesla pays for their charging infrastructure, as the customers only barely cover the cost of electricity they use with nothing going to cover the cost of construction, equipment and real estate. Perhaps Tesla is getting government subsidies that are not available to foreign companies?
Don't you think that if Toyota was interested in "investing" in charging infrastructure, the US government would jump at the chance to make sure that this was allowed? (Not oil company lobbyists, but actual people in government that care about actual issues)
Tesla leads Toyota in hardware, software, range, charging, brand image for starters. Anyone think Toyota can make an infotainment system anywhere near what Tesla has? Like all typical auto makers they rely heavily on OEMs that means cobbling together modules and trying to make them all work seamlessly. No hope of being able to do over the air updates to anywhere near the level Tesla does. And Toyota is tied to their dealer network EVs would drastically reduce the revenue stream.
Could go on and on. If Toyota doesn't act soon they are royally ****ed people are not going to accept an "electrified" future that's one of the biggest BS campaigns I've ever seen from any company. Only thing saving Toyota and other legacy auto makers so far is pure EV companies can't make enough cars yet.
And then there is Toyota's love affair with hydrogen vehicles. You have to the most clueless CEO in history to think that is a good strategy, I don't care what the Japanese government is pushing Toyota is a global company.
While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think using OEMs precludes OTA updates. I mean, Apple doesn't manufacture a single component of the iPhone and it updates OTA just fine.
I'd like to offer slight alternative perspective as well. What if Mr. Toyoda says what he does (i.e. criticizing EVs) because of what the Japanese government wants? Toyota's actions seem to betray his words, with rapidly increasing investment in EVs, plans for 15 EV models and whatnot. Of course, if it turns out that they're just EV models of existing platforms rather than EV specific platforms, then the commitment would be far shy of what's required.
As for hydrogen vehicles, I don't think it's necessarily bad. While it's clearly inferior tech for passenger vehicles, they can be very useful for transportation that has significant weight/space requirements e.g. semis, ships, maybe even planes. I don't see batteries catching up in energy density any time soon, and Toyota has little to no competition in this arena. They could carve out a pretty profitable niche in hydrogen cell tech given the number of semis, ships, etc. that run on fossil fuel.
While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think using OEMs precludes OTA updates. I mean, Apple doesn't manufacture a single component of the iPhone and it updates OTA just fine.
Ok but Apple is the developer of the operating system pushing the OTA updates to the hardware built to the specs of Apple's OS. Does Toyota develop its own software like Apple does?
Sorry I can't help myself lol - had to post this shot of 5 new Plaids at a Florida Service Center. I really love the blue and dark gray, but the white shows the lines of the body better somehow.........
The refreshed Model S now has ventilated/cooled seats. I know you don't care about Tesla's and I will not try to convince anyone to buy one other than telling you my personal experience. However, since you're an active member of a car forum, you owe it to yourself to put aside your lack of enthusiasm related to all things EV's and Tesla's in particular and go drive one and then come back here let us know what you really think. Forget about not being able to charge at home or not wanting to waste your time charging on a trip etc, just drive one first and let us know what you think.
I have driven a Tesla 3. I think it is a marvellous achievement and a really great experience. I have not driven an S however I disagree that some members on here say it’s NOT a luxury car. I think the S deserves to be called a luxury car despite some of the interior features what it might be missing
06-22-21, 09:23 AM
