ST430

Exactly, because if our capitalistic focus on profits, us companies sell our souls then later turn around and cry foul others are not playing fair. I'm no Chinese apologists, but they knew exactly what they got in this deal. While we look at little wins, they are looking at the bigger picture and preparing for the next market to dominate.

ST430

As a Tesla owner, car enthusiast, and an American citizen, I don't see what your citing as "knee-capping" at any time. You're looking at incidents of ev rebates distribution to unionized mfg and focusing on TSLA as a company. I see it hopefully propping up our lagging US EV mfgs with small incentives to buy others as well. In the long run, bring up our industry up and preventing monopolies can only be a win for consumers..jmho

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

right, and lex2k is neither a tesla owner, nor, as far as i know, an american resident or citizen. he sees any perceived slight against tesla (that might jinx his stock) or attempt to help old auto makers as 'knee capping' tesla, which is ludicrous. it's no secret i'm no fan of propping up the uaw for example, but companies like gm and ford are nothing like they were decades ago. gm of course went through bankruptcy to jettison a load of debt and obligations and is run by a skilled exec, and ford survived through skillful financing and a passion for trucks and innovation that is unmatched and is now also run by a skilled exec. ford's ecoboost engines and all aluminum bodies were giant and risky moves, that paid off big time. they proved most full size truck customers don't need v8s, but i digress.

tesla's doing great although still so manufacturing limited, but is working like crazy to bring on plants all over.

Motorola

Sandy's "China is coming" apocalypse prediction is just silly. China itself is not a single company, it has numerous different car companies and is oversaturated with numerous brands that all have to compete with one another just to survive, nevermind dealing with outside competition from global brands. Even if one Chinese car company magically gets solid state batteries tomorrow, their main priority won't be going to Europe or America to compete with those established brands by wasting millions of dollars on setting up a dealer network and taking decades to gain brand recognition, but to use their advantage to fend off other Chinese brands because they are their immediate competition.

LeX2K

Explain why this is relevant in any way, not that you know the slightest thing about my citizenship.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ah this is where i think you've got that wrong. it could well happen that TESLA becomes primarily a chinese manufacturing company more than anywhere else and exports from china all over. at that point it doesn't matter a whole lot what the other chinese companies do. although nio and others are not going away. plus any one of those companies could 'go to europe or america to compete' to quote you, by simply selling through an existing u.s. brand. for example, buick selling a nio ev. could definitely happen.

EZZ

I think the Berlin and Austin factories will actually produce more than the Shanghai units so we'll see if it turns out like this. I suspect that one major OEM will arise from China in the global market but the others will mainly sell to mainland China. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two Japanese manufacturers die in this transition to EVs though.

Toys4RJill

Tesla can crash as a company any day.

EZZ

Sure Jill. Lots of trillion dollar companies with large cash hoards and a 6 month backlog are susceptible to crashing any day. I'd rather be Tesla than Subaru, Nissan, Mazda or Honda.

Motorola

Nio is a startup, not a large corporation like Geely, or state-owned by the Chinese Government like GAC so they are quite literally in the same boat as Lucid and others, except they have the most competitive car market in the world in their backyard. Have you ever wondered why Nio seems so desperate to sell itself in other markets? It's because it's own home market is literally too competitive. Nio's startup status makes it one of the most vulnerable Chinese car companies.

And there are already Chinese-built cars sold here in the U.S. (i.e. all of Volvo's products), but the brands themselves are not Chinese. A Chinese brand coming here and being successful would take decades like Toyota or Hyundai/Kia.

ST430

It wouldn't surprise me if a large Chinese company like BYD buys Stallantis just to get a foothold into every market and not be framed as Chinese a la Volvo...

Motorola

Even if every existing OEM was bought up by the Chinese, that doesn't make them Chinese companies. Does anyone actually consider Jaguar Land Rover an Indian car company just because they're owned by Tata?

China wants its own brands to succeed, but they have to finish the free-for-all gladiator death match in their home country before they can expand overseas en masse.

spwolf

Reality is a bit murky, Buffet owns 8% of Byd, its market capitalization is 3x higher than Stellantis, but they produce only half a millon of vehicles per year, ie Stellantis revenues are 6x higher. Granted their sales this year are bigger but they are smaller manufacturer than Tesla for instance, or Mazda or Subaru.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don't see how mazda survives, except as a brand owned by someone else. subaru will leverage toyota and vice-versa and has the whole awd and image thing so should be ok. no idea how mitsubishi is still in the car business.