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excerpts:FRANKFURT/DUESSELDORF, Nov 17 (Reuters) - Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) plans to double staff numbers at its charging and energy division, roll out new payment technology next year and strike more alliances to take on Tesla (TSLA.O) in a key electric vehicle (EV) battleground: power infrastructure.
By ensuring there are enough fast-charging plugs - and enough power - for the EVs it wants to sell, Europe's biggest carmaker hopes to convince drivers worried about battery ranges that they can ditch their fossil fuel cars for good.
Underlining its electric ambition, Volkswagen has drafted in power industry veteran Elke Temme, who spent nearly two decades at German energy companies RWE (RWEG.DE) and Innogy, to help the carmaker get in better shape to take on Tesla.
Volkswagen leads the pack worldwide by far with its investment plans for EVs and batteries through 2030, according to a Reuters analysis, and it is planning to spend 35 billion euros on battery EVs by 2025.
But when it comes to the networks of fast-chargers that many analysts believe are crucial for bringing EVs into the mainstream, VW has some catching up to do.
Tesla has been rolling out high-performance Superchargers for years and has a global network of about 30,000 fast-chargers that it says can give a 200 km (125 mile) boost in 15 minutes.
The company said in October that its own network has doubled in the past 18 months - and will triple over the next two years.
Volkswagen, meanwhile expects its network of fast-chargers to nearly quadruple to about 45,000 by 2025 - when it aims to overhaul Tesla as the global EV market leader - with 18,000 EV pumps in Europe, 17,000 in China and 10,000 in North America.
Volkswagen in March said it plans to spend 400 million euros on expanding its fast-charging network on the continent by then.
But that's a drop in the ocean compared with the 5 billion euros the European Union reckons is needed every year until 2040 to expand charging infrastructure on the continent, and it is raising the pressure on utilities and governments to step up.
In Europe, the Volkswagen group is a shareholder in the EU's fast-charging venture Ionity, along with rival carmakers BMW (BMWG.DE), Daimler's (DAIGn.DE) Mercedes-Benz, Ford (F.N) and Hyundai (005380.KS).
It has also teamed up with energy firms such as Italy's Enel (ENEI.MI), Britain's BP (BP.L) and Spain's Iberdrola (IBE.MC)to plug geographical gaps and form the blueprint for how funding for EV infrastructure can be split across industries.
"Various models are conceivable, from product partnerships and joint ventures to M&A," said Temme.
CARS AND POWER
Tesla has already shown that when it comes to EVs, just selling cars no longer cuts it. It has adopted a model that offers customers everything from cars to battery storage to solar panels as well as electricity in some U.S. states.
Volkswagen is now selling power to retail clients that drive an EV or plug-in hybrids. One of its tariffs - which is available to customers who don't own a VW - has attracted more than 10,000 clients since its launch in July, Temme said.
She said VW was planning to make its fast-chargers available for all EV drivers, unlike Tesla which has so far kept its supercharging network just for Tesla drivers - with the exception of a pilot programme in the Netherlands. read more
"We are pursuing a different approach than Tesla when it comes to charging infrastructure roll-out," said Temme.
"We want an open, non-discriminatory charging network and will develop our services to make our offer more comfortable, simpler, more attractive."
Volkswagen says its open-for-all approach means buyers of its EVs can charge at more than 250,000 existing public charging points across Europe - from various providers with various charging speeds.
The problem is that charging protocols and payment methods can vary across vendors, potentially turning the act of refueling an EV into a time-consuming and messy undertaking.
From the first quarter of 2022, Volkswagen plans to offer "Plug & Charge" technology in Europe to make the process smoother.
The car will store the owner's payment details and make a contactless payment when the charging plug is attached to the EV at refuelling stations set up for the service.
While these are new challenges for established carmakers, Temme, who witnessed first-hand the abrupt shift of Germany's utilities away from nuclear power in the wake of the Fukushima disaster, believes they can be mastered.
"Utilities must reinvent themselves and transition from nuclear and coal to renewables. In the automotive industry, including at Volkswagen, the question is currently how to consistently shift the focus from conventional vehicles to sustainable mobility," she said.
Plan or planning is used 7 times in the article, anytime I see that word over and over red flags go up.
when it aims to overhaul Tesla as the global EV market leader
Do they mean overtake?
She said VW was planning to make its fast-chargers available for all EV drivers, unlike Tesla which has so far kept its supercharging network just for Tesla drivers - with the exception of a pilot programme in the Netherlands.
Strange way of putting it. Tesla is rolling out allowing charging for any EV across the entire Supercharger network, Netherlands is the pilot of that.
My take-away, VW is essentially saying we are going to try and be just like Tesla. This is a good strategy.
If this is real news and not just click bait, then Solid State batteries could soon be a reality in a few years, and put other EV makers like VW in a position to cut deeply into Tesla sales, as they have no plans to adopt SSD batteries period: https://medium.com/@randysalars/10-p...d-649e29ba3bf2
That articles says "a few years" that could mean anything. Empty click bait content IMO. As for Rivian I don't see them as a scam at all, Lucid is way closer to a scam.
That articles says "a few years" that could mean anything. Empty click bait content IMO. As for Rivian I don't see them as a scam at all, Lucid is way closer to a scam.
True, I'm not holding my breath. The reason I'm saying Rivian is a scam is Rivian itself claimed that they don't have enough capital and that they are relying on Amazon, essentially their only customer. That's why their stock dropped 18 percent. I bet they don't deliver in 2022. As for Lucid, they have backers with almost limitless pockets, one of them being the Saudi Government who are ironically looking to get out of their dependence on oil and diversify. Their shares reflect their strength
If this is real news and not just click bait, then Solid State batteries could soon be a reality in a few years, and put other EV makers like VW in a position to cut deeply into Tesla sales, as they have no plans to adopt SSD batteries period: https://medium.com/@randysalars/10-p...d-649e29ba3bf2
Hopefully their data is not manipulated and this is not a scam like Rivian. Yes, they are the perfect example of all your eggs in one basket...
Tesla not using solid-state ever is completely untrue. They believe that solid state isn't a near term reality so choose to develop lithium ion over solid state. In the short and medium term, they believe their 4680 design will get EVs to mass adoption. When solid state becomes commercially feasible is when Tesla will join in. Tesla is completely agnostic to which battery tech wins...they just want batteries period. They even use LFP in their standard range models as its cheaper and has benefits for non-performance applications. JB Straubel (CTO of Tesla) is a board member of Quantumscape so yes...Tesla has their eyes on future battery tech.
True, I'm not holding my breath. The reason I'm saying Rivian is a scam is Rivian itself claimed that they don't have enough capital and that they are relying on Amazon, essentially their only customer. That's why their stock dropped 18 percent.
I have high confidence RIVN is tanking because it had a fast run up and swing traders are doing their thing. On Lucid, I have yet to see an independent review even the Motor Trend piece was regurgitated marketing fluff. I'll be super happy to be wrong I hold Lucid stock (dumped some yesterday).
I bet they don't deliver in 2022. As for Lucid, they have backers with almost limitless pockets, one of them being the Saudi Government who are ironically looking to get out of their dependence on oil and diversify. Their shares reflect their strength
Both Lucid and Rivian are going go through major pains trying to reach mass production. Neither company is going to run out of money in the short term.
At least VW is producing EVs at scale, funny how their stock price does absolutely nothing but Rivian heads to the moon having sold zero trucks. This happens because people who missed out on TSLA are saying I'm not going to let that happen again I'm buying EV stock, any EV stock.
Tesla not using solid-state ever is completely untrue. They believe that solid state isn't a near term reality so choose to develop lithium ion over solid state. In the short and medium term, they believe their 4680 design will get EVs to mass adoption. When solid state becomes commercially feasible is when Tesla will join in. Tesla is completely agnostic to which battery tech wins...they just want batteries period. They even use LFP in their standard range models as its cheaper and has benefits for non-performance applications. JB Straubel (CTO of Tesla) is a board member of Quantumscape so yes...Tesla has their eyes on future battery tech.
I mentioned this because I read a statement from Tesla's head of battery development, Jeff Dahn stating that SSD's were a fantasy that will never become reality (I'm paraphrasing). I'm sure Tesla will adopt them if they do prove to be successful.
I have high confidence RIVN is tanking because it had a fast run up and swing traders are doing their thing. On Lucid, I have yet to see an independent review even the Motor Trend piece was regurgitated marketing fluff. I'll be super happy to be wrong I hold Lucid stock (dumped some yesterday).
Both Lucid and Rivian are going go through major pains trying to reach mass production. Neither company is going to run out of money in the short term.
At least VW is producing EVs at scale, funny how their stock price does absolutely nothing but Rivian heads to the moon having sold zero trucks. This happens because people who missed out on TSLA are saying I'm not going to let that happen again I'm buying EV stock, any EV stock.
I think people have learned that its flat out dumb to proclaim a company will go out of business just because its in the early stages of growth with no profitability. How many people bet against Tesla and the sheet amount of slander and false predictions about them going bankrupt did we see across the internet? I think the fact that Tesla is profitable, growing, and extremely valuable will give investor confidence that these EV companies have legs will not go out of business because there is actually a market now for EVs (and growing).
VW doesn't have the hype on its stock yet because they are still mostly a ICE company. But when they have enough EV sales and when their EV sales begin overtaking their ICE sales, VW stock will soar. Of all the legacy OEMs, they are the best poised to succeed in this new market.
I have high confidence RIVN is tanking because it had a fast run up and swing traders are doing their thing. On Lucid, I have yet to see an independent review even the Motor Trend piece was regurgitated marketing fluff. I'll be super happy to be wrong I hold Lucid stock (dumped some yesterday).
Both Lucid and Rivian are going go through major pains trying to reach mass production. Neither company is going to run out of money in the short term.
At least VW is producing EVs at scale, funny how their stock price does absolutely nothing but Rivian heads to the moon having sold zero trucks. This happens because people who missed out on TSLA are saying I'm not going to let that happen again I'm buying EV stock, any EV stock.
I would characterize solid state storage for cars as very close to being a fantasy. And even if it happens by that time I bet conventional cells will be close enough in performance where it simply won't matter. Could be completely wrong but that's how I see it playing out.
Originally Posted by EZZ
I think people have learned that its flat out dumb to proclaim a company will go out of business just because its in the early stages of growth with no profitability. How many people bet against Tesla and the sheet amount of slander and false predictions about them going bankrupt did we see across the internet? I think the fact that Tesla is profitable, growing, and extremely valuable will give investor confidence that these EV companies have legs will not go out of business because there is actually a market now for EVs (and growing).
Incredibly there are still some that are betting against Tesla (literally, via stock market) and say the bubble will burst. But remember just because Tesla managed to get through production hell doesn't mean other start ups will.
On slander and general massive negativity tossed at Tesla this is not surprising. Tesla a bitter pill for legacy auto it is so much easier for them to maintain that status quo. Look at Toyota, they are actively lobbying against electric vehicles and now are talking about how they want to keep making fossil fueled engines.
VW doesn't have the hype on its stock yet because they are still mostly a ICE company. But when they have enough EV sales and when their EV sales begin overtaking their ICE sales, VW stock will soar. Of all the legacy OEMs, they are the best poised to succeed in this new market.
Why doesn't VW built a factory that is electric only? No legacy, no baggage. Is will be much harder initially but the pay off will be worth it.
I think people have learned that its flat out dumb to proclaim a company will go out of business just because its in the early stages of growth with no profitability. How many people bet against Tesla and the sheet amount of slander and false predictions about them going bankrupt did we see across the internet? I think the fact that Tesla is profitable, growing, and extremely valuable will give investor confidence that these EV companies have legs will not go out of business because there is actually a market now for EVs (and growing).
VW doesn't have the hype on its stock yet because they are still mostly a ICE company. But when they have enough EV sales and when their EV sales begin overtaking their ICE sales, VW stock will soar. Of all the legacy OEMs, they are the best poised to succeed in this new market.
I guess if you want to look like your in the Flintstones, you can buy a Rivian. But your right, they shouldn't be ruled out this soon in the game
I would characterize solid state storage for cars as very close to being a fantasy. And even if it happens by that time I bet conventional cells will be close enough in performance where it simply won't matter. Could be completely wrong but that's how I see it playing out.
We will see about that. In theory, solid state is better and being in a leading edge tech company and seeing the brilliance of human engineering, I refuse to believe a theoretically better technology loses out in the long run. I firmly believe every technology barrier is just temporary and great engineering companies say "i can't do that...yet" but they eventually get there.
We will see about that. In theory, solid state is better and being in a leading edge tech company and seeing the brilliance of human engineering, I refuse to believe a theoretically better technology loses out in the long run. I firmly believe every technology barrier is just temporary and great engineering companies say "i can't do that...yet" but they eventually get there.
I couldn't agree more. It's a matter of figuring out now to prevent fissures during charge and discharge states. They will figure it out. The founder of Ranitherapeutics, one of our medical device startups, figured out how to deliver injections through a pill. Pharma companies worked on this for almost 100 years, he got it to work in 8. According to a lot reports, QuantumScape has figured SSD out on a small scale already
We will see about that. In theory, solid state is better and being in a leading edge tech company and seeing the brilliance of human engineering, I refuse to believe a theoretically better technology loses out in the long run. I firmly believe every technology barrier is just temporary and great engineering companies say "i can't do that...yet" but they eventually get there.
Let's say Company A comes up with SSBs that are viable in vehicles, does that mean only one auto maker will have access and the rest will be stuck with inferior chemical batteries? Will they license the tech out? How will that play out in your mind?
BTW the "best" tech often does not win out there are so many factors like cost, ease of production, ability to scale, cold weather reliability, longevity. All of these things and more are unknown for SSBs. The vibe I get is, too good to be true in the short term.
Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
According to a lot reports, QuantumScape has figured SSD out on a small scale already
Small scale is another way of saying not mass production which is a whole other animal.
11-17-21, 04:14 AM
VW's gearing up to take on Tesla
