Who has driven a Tesla?
02-08-22, 06:09 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
That makes no sense. If the conditions are right to coast, then you coast. You only regen when you need to slow down. Its very simple...if you need to slow down and you use the physical brakes, then you are less efficient than if you slow down using regen braking. I have regen braking on all day but when i coast at 80mph, my foot is on the pedal. If i turn off regen i can coast at 80mph but its exactly the same as my foot being on the pedal to go 80mph at all times. There is no difference...its just a software mode. I've tested this on road trips and my Wh/mi doesn't change AT ALL. its the same thing.
I'm addressing someone who said regen magically adds back power. It doesn't, it simply puts some back that was used to get moving that's it and it can't put back the same amount that was used. It will always have a net loss vs coasting to a stop.
Yes I know you can't always coast to a stop but I'm solely addressing the literally impossible statement that regen adds range. It doesn't and it can't.
02-08-22, 06:15 PM
#32
Intermediate
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=mmarshall;11224509]I did a review of an AWD Model 3 some time ago. Had enough torque at lower RPMs to handily dust away the best American muscle-cars I grew up with over a half-century ago....too much power, IMO, for careless/immature or inattentive drivers. Otherwise, in normal driving, drove like an appliance (as many vehicles these days do), and IMO the dash-design, wth only the big center-screen, was a joke.
On the regeneration-vs.-coasting debate of the last several posts, count me in on the side of regeneration......IMO it is clearly better for both safety and brake-pad/rotor wear. Coasting, especially down hills (and I've seen some doozies in the Appalachians), can be potentially dangerous, and the regeneration, when one lets up on the throttle, not only controls downhill speed, but also saves wear and tear on the brakes by allowing the electric motor's spin-drag to control the speed. That is why brakes in hybrids and BEVs last so long.[
Yeah I know what you mean about "lower RPM". The Tesla just has immediate pull from a stop or coast, but the pull doesn't seem to pull hard after you've gained some speed.
I can definitely see why some would prefer the Tesla but I'm not feeling it at the moment.
On the regeneration-vs.-coasting debate of the last several posts, count me in on the side of regeneration......IMO it is clearly better for both safety and brake-pad/rotor wear. Coasting, especially down hills (and I've seen some doozies in the Appalachians), can be potentially dangerous, and the regeneration, when one lets up on the throttle, not only controls downhill speed, but also saves wear and tear on the brakes by allowing the electric motor's spin-drag to control the speed. That is why brakes in hybrids and BEVs last so long.[
Yeah I know what you mean about "lower RPM". The Tesla just has immediate pull from a stop or coast, but the pull doesn't seem to pull hard after you've gained some speed.
I can definitely see why some would prefer the Tesla but I'm not feeling it at the moment.
02-08-22, 06:24 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
^^^^^^Just a friendly tip....When you quote someone, it should look like this:
This part is yours:.............Yeah I know what you mean about "lower RPM". The Tesla just has immediate pull from a stop or coast, but the pull doesn't seem to pull hard after you've gained some speed.
I can definitely see why some would prefer the Tesla but I'm not feeling it at the moment.
I did a review of an AWD Model 3 some time ago. Had enough torque at lower RPMs to handily dust away the best American muscle-cars I grew up with over a half-century ago....too much power, IMO, for careless/immature or inattentive drivers. Otherwise, in normal driving, drove like an appliance (as many vehicles these days do), and IMO the dash-design, wth only the big center-screen, was a joke.
On the regeneration-vs.-coasting debate of the last several posts, count me in on the side of regeneration......IMO it is clearly better for both safety and brake-pad/rotor wear. Coasting, especially down hills (and I've seen some doozies in the Appalachians), can be potentially dangerous, and the regeneration, when one lets up on the throttle, not only controls downhill speed, but also saves wear and tear on the brakes by allowing the electric motor's spin-drag to control the speed. That is why brakes in hybrids and BEVs last so long.
On the regeneration-vs.-coasting debate of the last several posts, count me in on the side of regeneration......IMO it is clearly better for both safety and brake-pad/rotor wear. Coasting, especially down hills (and I've seen some doozies in the Appalachians), can be potentially dangerous, and the regeneration, when one lets up on the throttle, not only controls downhill speed, but also saves wear and tear on the brakes by allowing the electric motor's spin-drag to control the speed. That is why brakes in hybrids and BEVs last so long.
I can definitely see why some would prefer the Tesla but I'm not feeling it at the moment.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-08-22 at 06:37 PM.
02-08-22, 06:28 PM
#34
You clearly don't understand my point. Using regen AT ALL vs fully coasting out to a stop is using more energy. Using braking at all is really wasting energy.
I'm addressing someone who said regen magically adds back power. It doesn't, it simply puts some back that was used to get moving that's it and it can't put back the same amount that was used. It will always have a net loss vs coasting to a stop.
Yes I know you can't always coast to a stop but I'm solely addressing the literally impossible statement that regen adds range. It doesn't and it can't.
I'm addressing someone who said regen magically adds back power. It doesn't, it simply puts some back that was used to get moving that's it and it can't put back the same amount that was used. It will always have a net loss vs coasting to a stop.
Yes I know you can't always coast to a stop but I'm solely addressing the literally impossible statement that regen adds range. It doesn't and it can't.
But regarding add range, you are mistaken. Slowing the car with brakes releases the kinetic energy to the atmosphere via heat. Regen puts part of that kinetic energy back into the battery. Otherwise it is transferred to something else.
02-08-22, 07:17 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
You clearly don't understand my point. Using regen AT ALL vs fully coasting out to a stop is using more energy. Using braking at all is really wasting energy.
I'm addressing someone who said regen magically adds back power. It doesn't, it simply puts some back that was used to get moving that's it and it can't put back the same amount that was used. It will always have a net loss vs coasting to a stop.
Yes I know you can't always coast to a stop but I'm solely addressing the literally impossible statement that regen adds range. It doesn't and it can't.
I'm addressing someone who said regen magically adds back power. It doesn't, it simply puts some back that was used to get moving that's it and it can't put back the same amount that was used. It will always have a net loss vs coasting to a stop.
Yes I know you can't always coast to a stop but I'm solely addressing the literally impossible statement that regen adds range. It doesn't and it can't.
02-08-22, 07:54 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
You are perhaps speaking to the law of conservation of energy.
But regarding add range, you are mistaken. Slowing the car with brakes releases the kinetic energy to the atmosphere via heat. Regen puts part of that kinetic energy back into the battery. Otherwise it is transferred to something else.
But regarding add range, you are mistaken. Slowing the car with brakes releases the kinetic energy to the atmosphere via heat. Regen puts part of that kinetic energy back into the battery. Otherwise it is transferred to something else.
02-08-22, 07:57 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
Nobody is saying it will put all the energy back, only charging will do that. What it does is taking some of that wasted heat and turn it to energy, and saves on brake wear. Maybe you get back 3 or 4 percent, but it's at least a small return. If you turn Regen off and just coast, no energy lost, no energy gained
You are just converting some motion back to charge not gaining anything back. People here have literally said regen adds power back vs coasting.
02-08-22, 08:17 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
No energy gained is the only thing that happens anyway. Regen just allows you to slow down faster than coasting with an overall energy penalty. You do not magically gain anything back, you just aren't spending it on heat instead when slowing down.
You are just converting some motion back to charge not gaining anything back. People here have literally said regen adds power back vs coasting.
You are just converting some motion back to charge not gaining anything back. People here have literally said regen adds power back vs coasting.
02-08-22, 08:29 PM
#39
Lead Lap
LOL I couldn’t care less about whether regen adds power back or not and I’m not one to drive a certain way to save a little bit of gas or electric power. I just like that I literally never have to use my brakes at all when driving an EV which is a big plus to me because I loathe brake dust all over my wheels. Also, on my Tesla I have no ability to change the regen rate so I cannot coast at all but I honestly never would anyway.
02-08-22, 08:32 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
LOL I couldn’t care less about whether regen adds power back or not and I’m not one to drive a certain way to save a little bit of gas or electric power. I just like that I literally never have to use my brakes at all when driving an EV which is a big plus to me because I loathe brake dust all over my wheels. Also, on my Tesla I have no ability to change the regen rate so I cannot coast at all but I honestly never would anyway.
02-08-22, 08:42 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
You can believe me or not believe me, I see with my own eyes energy gain, as much as 4 percent in a few cases. So unless they have programmed the instruments to lie, I don't know what else to say. Also think about what you are saying, "you are converting some motion back to charge not gaining anything back". Im really confused about that statement. But anyway, it's all good because the only way to significantly gain power back is by plugging into a power source
Of course regen is a huge benefit to an EV because nobody stops the car just coasting it...thats stupid. When I'm going down a steep mountain, i don't just coast the EV because there are other cars in front of me and i have to moderate my speed and regen really really helps with that and i capture a bunch of energy. I think the estimate is that 15% of the total range of an EV is due to regen.
02-08-22, 08:45 PM
#42
Lexus Champion
You guys are talking past each other. He is saying that if you coast and add no power and eventually stop...lets say 1 mile, you will have lost no additional energy vs. if you go a mile and stop using regen. You are saying that using regen is far better than using conventional brakes. You guys aren't even arguing the same thing anymore.
Of course regen is a huge benefit to an EV because nobody stops the car just coasting it...thats stupid. When I'm going down a steep mountain, i don't just coast the EV because there are other cars in front of me and i have to moderate my speed and regen really really helps with that and i capture a bunch of energy. I think the estimate is that 15% of the total range of an EV is due to regen.
Of course regen is a huge benefit to an EV because nobody stops the car just coasting it...thats stupid. When I'm going down a steep mountain, i don't just coast the EV because there are other cars in front of me and i have to moderate my speed and regen really really helps with that and i capture a bunch of energy. I think the estimate is that 15% of the total range of an EV is due to regen.
02-09-22, 07:41 AM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Regenerative braking captures energy that would just have been lost, as Jeff described. Nobody is saying braking "increases range" the way you are saying they are, but regenerative braking DOES add back some range that was lost by propelling the vehicle forward.
Just coasting of course is more efficient but that isn't practical to do when driving a vehicle on public roadways around other cars. Braking will be used, so regenerative brakes turn that friction into some stored energy vs it just being lost.
02-09-22, 08:19 AM
#44
I have owned a standard range plus for the past 32 months and 48750 miles. My experience with a EV for daily driving is nothing but positive. The Tesla almost require no maintenance other than filling the windshield fluid and replace the cabin filter yearly. Once you are used to the way it drive, the low operating cost, it is hard to get back to the ice TBH. The only reason I am going back to ice ( trading it in toward a NX350h ) is from the unusual current market for a used vehicle and my trade value is too good to past up. I hope I don’t regret this decision.
02-09-22, 09:10 AM
#45
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by NoMoreEv
I have owned a standard range plus for the past 32 months and 48750 miles. My experience with a EV for daily driving is nothing but positive. The Tesla almost require no maintenance other than filling the windshield fluid and replace the cabin filter yearly. Once you are used to the way it drive, the low operating cost, it is hard to get back to the ice TBH. The only reason I am going back to ice ( trading it in toward a NX350h ) is from the unusual current market for a used vehicle and my trade value is too good to past up. I hope I don’t regret this decision.