AMIRZA786

It's completely clear what I said, but OK, let me simplify my words a bit. Government collects about $100 to $150 a year in gas taxes from me, and individual per car. But now I don't buy gas (at least for two of my cars), so instead the government adds an additional fee (which is actually an EV tax of $100 a year to my registration fee). Tax me through gas, or tax me through an additional registration tax. Was that clear enough?

Striker223

Do you track your car?

The 3 series is so far above the EVs for performance it's not comparable. The M3 will take any tesla 3s head off on a track.

The 3 is perfectly compatible to the cam/cord segment since that's the segment it is in when you look at quality (maybe), size, features, and marketed role. Just because you have the most clocked up version doesn't mean you can broadly compare it as the standard or I get to use the M cars as my standard and they provide a far better overall product and experience. Oh and if we don't use the 3P as the metric that actually makes it worse as the base model is 45k and will be OUTRUN by the accord.

Your car is by far the best value in the entire Tesla lineup. If we start comparing the cheaper/slower 3s it gets worse for the EV since the 10k+ price gap is still here allowing the gas car 100k miles of use in fuel costs and now it's losing 0-60. Im being nice with the gas cost too since I'm again leaving the cost of the charger out of it and assuming you are charging at home.

If I don't then the EV is 3k more for the charger if they home has the amperage to spare at the panel/service entrance. OR you can price compare using supercharging only since some people will not have any ability to home charge.

AMIRZA786

If I tracked my car, I would keep a dedicated car for that purpose, but most people don't track their cars, especially their daily drivers

SW17LS

LOL, nobody tracks their car.

Striker223

So you admit the handling doesn't matter much and it's more about straight line speed?

I've taken both my LS and A8 to the track....the 460 will be up in the spring. It's the best way to get used to a car and make changes if you are looking to modify.

Also my point about the 3 vs others? The 3P has the most advantage......

AMIRZA786

LOL nope...

RNM GS3

That would create a massive shortfall if it was $100 flat fee. Average tax on gallon of gas is over 50cents fed/state tax combined. On average most ppl pay well over $1,000 in gas tax per year obviously depending how much you drive and how fuel efficient your car is.

The only solution for the government would be a road tax per mile driven which would be simple to get since EVs now track everything about the car.

SW17LS

You are in the extreme, extreme minority.

And of course an M3 would handle better than a Model 3. I would hope so.

EZZ

I paid $57k for my Model 3 Performance which is equivalent to a M-sport 330i. I specced out multiple cars before I bought my Model 3 and BMW's price equivalent is the 330i. An M340 will easily get you over ~$63k reasonably equipped.

The M cars are reaching $80-100k per car and is barely faster than my car...but they better be for that 50-100% price increase. Any Dual Motor Model 3 outside of the performance will outrun an M340 with a simple boost package you download and its still way below $55k. Sorry but the Accord isn't the competitor to the Model 3 as its wrong wheel drive and drives like crap. The Model 3 drives better than a standard 3 series...i've driven my friend's BMWs and am very familiar.

AMIRZA786

First of all, most people don't track their cars, especially their daily drivers. Most people don't modify their cars, ICE or EV. Of course handling does matter, a lot of EV's do very well at handling, some better than others just like their ICE counterparts. Your not the average car owner, so you are the exception to the rule. In practical terms taking tracking the car out of the equation, the Model 3 has the advantage because of it's cheaper cost to own and maintain vs any of it's ICE counterparts

AMIRZA786

Even with road tax, which we do have now in California (toll roads), the cost of owning and driving an EV will always be cheaper than ICE

Striker223

The accord absolutely is and is in stock form faster than the current base model 3. Again you can't compare your car just because it's the best price to performance ratio in the brand.

Why don't you address the points I made about overall costs and the fact that a base 3 will lose to an accord 0-60.

Also no, an M340i with a tune will tie your 3P, and there is simply no comparison on track.

Striker223

I'm not sure, he makes a good point of the fact that fuel taxes can vastly exceed a flat $100 and if you factor contractor use vehicles that absolutely rack up miles I'm sure the government will want to maintain the usual expansion of taxes per year they have always done. If enough EVs exist it becomes and issue I'm sure they will have the cars automatically report in mileage and tax it to a rate adjusted to compensate. There are bills in discussion for a .25 cent mile tax already

Hopefully they keep it like it is but history shows it will only go up.

EZZ

A base Model 3 will run 5.3s to 5.8s depending on year. An accord will do about the same but its wrong wheel drive so they aren't comparable. Overall costs to own that Model 3 will be cheaper over the lifetime of the Accord given. This analysis has been done to death. Also, M340 doesn't handle that great...its fast for an ICE but not the best handling car. Its definitely slower than the last gen M3 on a track and a Model 3 Performance has comparable track performance to the last gen M3. In autocross, it decimates both cars.

https://insideevs.com/features/42534...d-hybrid-cost/

Striker223

But it's not. The 3P is the only one that appears that way since it has the best price to performance ratio and can on paper keep up 0-60 with cars that outclass it everywhere else.

You would NEVER say a 5.0 mustang is comparable to a LC500 just because the 0-60 is similar. The 3P is a EV muscle car that has one selling point/party trick and is absolutely in the same class as the cars I mentioned and even Tesla claims it's a family car. So let's compare it to the leaders of the segment no?

The 2.0 accord is faster than a base 3 and over 10k cheaper.