Och

iTrader: (3)

Ugh, I remember reading posts on here with members justifying using a generator to charge an EV with some ridiculously stretched out stats.

Not to mention, there are EVs that are factory equipped with generators - the i3, i8, Chevy Volt, etc. Peak stupidity.

EZZ

So now you think hybrids are stupid too? Okay...

AMIRZA786

Wait, didn't you compare EV's to "Aid's" and chidded me when I posted in the V8 thread....?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

no, i don't think that's what Och meant/wrote. i3, etc are not hybrids, they use a gas powered generator to recharge the batteries for the electric drivetrain! that's really stupid.
a hybrid and moreso PHEV is a much better setup.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I did not single you out at all, I enjoy having constructive discussions with you, just made a comment regarding evs in the v8 thread.

EZZ

A Volt does the same but does it really well. has 100mpge and 42 on the gas extender. Total is probably better than a Prius and faster too. Prius and Volt are both hybrids...just with different powertrain philosophies. The BMW i8 also got 35-40 mpg real world with much better performance than any other hybrid...why is it stupid? At the Volt and BMW had a choice to use all electric when doing short commutes.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

they're actually doing it without knowing it anyway... (i know you know this Och but) dark U.S. secret: all those amazing Tesla superchargers, EA, chargepoint, and others... are delivering electricity created PRIMARILY by fossil fuel and to a lesser extent nuclear power plants and to a tiny fraction wind/solar/hydro.

i have no doubt EV owners are in complete denial or just don't know when they're sipping their latte at the Tesla lounge as their car gets recharged, they're putting CO2 into the atmosphere.

still, it is what it is. even if the whole country drove EVs, the usage of fossil fuels for every other use including power generation will still be ENORMOUS.

EZZ

But not all fossil fuels are equivalent. Coal is on a significant decline and natural gas is on the increase which is much cleaner. Also, the potential to be much cleaner overall is always there vs. combustion which is mostly fixed at this point. Shift to more renewable energy is happening and will take time but an EV over the lifetime is still much cleaner than an ICE in the US given its energy mix. So as I charge my Tesla right now, I'm pretty sure I have 0% CO2 released in the air.

AMIRZA786

You're assuming that all or most EV owners are environmentalists and only drive EV's to be green. Far from reality. I can care less how electricity is generated, powered by fossil fuels, nuclear power, solar or other. Of course the preference would be renewable energy with ZERO C02 emissions, but that's not why I've moved to EV, I did so because electric motors are just a better way to power vehicles where you get a faster more efficient vehicle

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

good post. understand not all EV owners do it to be green. especially plaid buyers.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

but that's you (assuming you're charging off your solar at home), and that's not typical, and certainly doesn't apply if you're on a trip which is what this thread is about.

EZZ

Thats the whole point! At least the EV has the potential to be better while the ICE is hopelessly polluting. You can't make ICE ANY BETTER. EVs have a potential to get better with upgrades to the powergrid and your location. If I supercharged in Oregon, 70% of that energy is from renewables. If I filled up with gas, 100% of that is fossil fuels no matter where I go.

LeX2K

People want EVs not because they may or may not be environmental friendly, they simply like modern electric vehicles. This is why the constant notion of "the competition is coming" is not valid the competition already exists.
EVs are slightly to worse to FAR cleaner.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i'm not driving to oregon to recharge or for any other reason.
i wouldn't be buying an EV because of it's "potential to get better".
yes, poor polluting ice cars... the joke is that ICE cars pollute so little these days i believe it's basically irrelevant. gee look at what the epa says:



and a HUGE chunk of that transportation slice is trucks and ships.

as we have more ev's and less ice, the electricity slice will get bigger and the transportation slice will get a bit smaller.

the fantasy of renewables for the whole country is just that for a long long time. we'd be better off using nuclear. geothermal looks promising though. wind and solar are ugly and don't work everywhere and aren't a replacement without storage. yes, tesla's roof tiles seem awesome, but are expensive, and apparently still very limited availability.

the consumption of fossil fuels is still projected to increase for the foreseeable future.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I have no problem with anyone driving an EV to save money in their pocket, and if it fits their lifestyle. Its the pretentious environmentalists that are fun to mock.