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I feel like a lot of nay sayers look at the challenges of EVs as very black and white. Majority of people are not taking these huge extended road trips every day. Its like people who daily pickup trucks. 99% of time you arent towing or hauling anything you couldn't in a regular vehicle. It's a mental thing that you need to overcome. Sure having the capability is nice but when most of America does the same boring commute every single day, you really don't need much vehicle. I think most daily commutes would be well served by almost any of the EVs on the market right now. The people in my life with EV's are two car families, one EV , and one ICE vehicle. So if a long trip has to be taken you have a gas vehicle. Thats the best of both worlds. I think I took one road trip in 2022 that was about 400 miles each way. Otherwise, I fly as I don't want to waste my vacation time driving through cornfields.
Exactly my point. Americans especially buy a vehicle for their most dramatic potential need and then drive it around every day. Thats why you see people driving huge SUVs and pickup trucks alone. Objectively, that vehicle just makes no sense for that user. Even me, someone might ride in my backseat 5 times a year, for me to drive such a huge vehicle around just by myself is really silly.
I travel myself alone in my car 2-3 times a year to WV, we go another 1-2 times but as a family in the Pacifica. For me to not buy an EV because I am concerned about those 2-3 trips when every other day I would enjoy not having any fuel need or cost really is silly. There are workarounds, I could drive the Pacifica on those trips and leave the EV for my wife and kids to drive, etc.
First, I’ve never seen a Bucee’s or whatever it’s called until I drove by one last night, wow. It’s the biggest gas station I’ve ever seen and it was packed. It was seriously impressive.
As far as my vacation, I was off this week and there was no way I was going to stay at home when I needed a break and Disney was already paid for. I was going to find a way down and there were no flights out of BWI or National in DC for the week. My rental was about $800 for the week and I didn’t care because it was cheaper than what I paid for my family of four one way on Southwest so I will take the credit and use it later.
Bucees are crazy but Alabama Bucee is something else. Doubled the number of pumps I think. I heard that they also have super charge stations now. So it's well worth checking out for you EV folks. Their food is ...freshly made. But the selling point is the restroom.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
drive a few times a year 250+ mi. ea. way. while a lot of EVs can do that one way without a charge, i still wouldn't be comfortable with anything but a tesla based on what i've seen/read. and even worse, even if i can get there without charging, then i will still have to charge when i get there, and i guarantee whomever i'm staying with won't have a 240v charging outlet so i have to find a 'local' place to charge and waste time hanging around in some boring parking lot or rationalize that i wanted to go to the starbucks/walmart/whatever anyway.
example: drive to airport - let's say :30
park and get into terminal let's say :15
check-in let's say :15 (optimistic!)
eat / security / wait to board: 1:00 (optimistic)
time between boarding and actually getting off the ground :30
flying: 1:30
get off plane (unless you're up front) :15 (all those freaking overhead bags and slow people)
get through terminal to ride :15
ride to where you're going :30
total: 5 hours
plus you get the pleasure of many good opportunities to get colds, flu, infections, covid, strep, etc.
drive from maryland (?) to albany ny
6 hours
it's a similar situation for me to go to atlanta.
5.5 hr drive or 1hr flight with all the above garbage.
it's a tough decision.
What about going to/from off airport parking site? Luggage delayed/lost? Lol.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
The drive time is more than 6 hours, its more like 7 hours with stops etc. So, flying is an hour and a half faster, and it goes much faster because you're moving and doing things vs just being stuck in the car. 5.5 hours I would drive, especially because the Atlanta airport is such a disaster.
You feel faster but the math isn't so much. There's really no way I would fly a 1-2 hour flight unless I don't need a car on the other end. I think for short flights, being "stuck" in the car is better than being on the plane and having to navigate through all the steps involved.
Originally Posted by lamar411
I feel like a lot of nay sayers look at the challenges of EVs as very black and white. Majority of people are not taking these huge extended road trips every day. Its like people who daily pickup trucks. 99% of time you arent towing or hauling anything you couldn't in a regular vehicle. It's a mental thing that you need to overcome. Sure having the capability is nice but when most of America does the same boring commute every single day, you really don't need much vehicle. I think most daily commutes would be well served by almost any of the EVs on the market right now. The people in my life with EV's are two car families, one EV , and one ICE vehicle. So if a long trip has to be taken you have a gas vehicle. Thats the best of both worlds. I think I took one road trip in 2022 that was about 400 miles each way. Otherwise, I fly as I don't want to waste my vacation time driving through cornfields.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Exactly my point. Americans especially buy a vehicle for their most dramatic potential need and then drive it around every day. Thats why you see people driving huge SUVs and pickup trucks alone. Objectively, that vehicle just makes no sense for that user. Even me, someone might ride in my backseat 5 times a year, for me to drive such a huge vehicle around just by myself is really silly.
I travel myself alone in my car 2-3 times a year to WV, we go another 1-2 times but as a family in the Pacifica. For me to not buy an EV because I am concerned about those 2-3 trips when every other day I would enjoy not having any fuel need or cost really is silly. There are workarounds, I could drive the Pacifica on those trips and leave the EV for my wife and kids to drive, etc.
You are right about EVs usage but not so for large trucks and SUVs. Most people I know with these full size trucks and SUVs, they have zero need for towing. And when I see a full size luxury SUV, it's usually a mom driving. They just like them for what they are. Just like us we like our dailies. We have different daily needs and likes.
What about safety at these charging stations when you're traveling? When I'm on the road in the middle of the night I waste no time getting gas and back on the road because I'm in unfamiliar surroundings. I'd feel kinda vulnerable waiting for 30-50 minutes in no-mans land or a sketchy part of some city I don't know for my car to charge at night.
Bucees are crazy but Alabama Bucee is something else. Doubled the number of pumps I think. I heard that they also have super charge stations now. So it's well worth checking out for you EV folks. Their food is ...freshly made. But the selling point is the restroom.
The food is amazing but the bathrooms are something else lol. We took pictures of the whole place, we were like kids in a candy store...
You feel faster but the math isn't so much. There's really no way I would fly a 1-2 hour flight unless I don't need a car on the other end. I think for short flights, being "stuck" in the car is better than being on the plane and having to navigate through all the steps involved.
Feeling faster is pretty important. No need for a car on the other end on this trip, we're just at our friends' house.
2 hour flights are also very variable. Here to Orlando is a 2 hour flight, and its a 14 hour drive, here to Albany is 1.5 hours and its a 7 hour drive. It also depends on where you drive, driving to Albany requires driving up 95 and the NJ Turnpike and then the NY Thruway...its not enjoyable. I actually go through PA despite it being about 30 minutes farther just to avoid the congestion of that NE corridor.
You are right about EVs usage but not so for large trucks and SUVs. Most people I know with these full size trucks and SUVs, they have zero need for towing. And when I see a full size luxury SUV, it's usually a mom driving. They just like them for what they are. Just like us we like our dailies. We have different daily needs and likes.
I think you misunderstand me, I'm saying they don't have a need but they rationalize the vehicle for some potential need they may have. This is the same thing "well what if I want to take a 1,200 mile trip?" You're not going to take a 1,200 mile trip lol
Originally Posted by AJT123
What about safety at these charging stations when you're traveling? When I'm on the road in the middle of the night I waste no time getting gas and back on the road because I'm in unfamiliar surroundings. I'd feel kinda vulnerable waiting for 30-50 minutes in no-mans land or a sketchy part of some city I don't know for my car to charge at night.
Then don't travel in the middle of the night. I don't travel in the middle of the night anymore, I'm too old for that.
You also don't charge for 30-50 minutes, its 15-30 minutes to 80%. You can always stay in your locked car too.
It just takes planning and some adaption from your usual habits.
Chevy Bolt has a 260 mile range. How long and how many times will I have to stop and charge to make the 1100 mile trip from Toronto to Savannah?
If you routinely drive a 1100 mile trip from Toronto to Savannah you would never buy a Chevy Bolt or any other EV probably to drive on that trip. Our point is most people don't regularly drive trips like that, or even ever drive trips like that.
You feel faster but the math isn't so much. There's really no way I would fly a 1-2 hour flight unless I don't need a car on the other end. I think for short flights, being "stuck" in the car is better than being on the plane and having to navigate through all the steps involved.
This is a "hell no" from me. One of my last pre-covid work trips was to upstate New York--a 528 mile flight to O'Hare, plus a ~20 mile drive on each end, or a 653 mile drive. My return was on the same day as the end of season party for a local sports organization that I was Commissioner of. About an hour after I left the office, I had dropped off my rental car and was standing at the gate waiting to board, when the 2-hour party began. Upon arrival, I walked a bit quickly to the parking garage, and drove perhaps a bit more quickly straight to the park where we were holding the party. I was there 15 minutes before it ended, and was able to close it out nicely with all the parents, players, and coaches. About 2.5 hours, door-to-door.
Had I been driving, left the office at the same time, and never stopped once for gas, food, to stretch, or go to the bathroom, I would have gotten home at about 1:30 am (~10.5 hr drive). Since I do need to do those things, 3:30 am would be more realistic. But if we're being honest, I wouldn't do that either after being up early and working all day. So it'd be another night in the hotel, a fairly early departure in the morning, and home at 6-7pm. About 24 hours after I actually WAS home.
Post-Covid, I make this same trip every 1-2 months, and now the most convenient flight is actually in the morning, so I do still take that extra night in the hotel (which is nice because I can take my team out on Thursday night). I do have to get up a bit earlier than I'd like, but I'm settled at home by 8am (even with waiting for an Uber) instead of after dinner. Taking the "1-2 hr flight" literally gives me back an entire day.
Chevy Bolt has a 260 mile range. How long and how many times will I have to stop and charge to make the 1100 mile trip from Toronto to Savannah?
Plugging this into ABR to calculate trip, best case scenario is 9 charges and total of 8hrs 10m of charging with Chevy Bolt EUV, adjusted 20% consumption for worse weather and going slightly above speed limit.
Your charges would be between 36m and 71m in length, and you should arrive with 15% charge.
edit:
Decided to make this comparo using ABR app for planning (equivalent to spring drive) with default settings (perfect speed limit, perfect weather), starting 100%, 15% soc at end:
Total trip time
2022 Bolt EUV: 24h 13m (7 stops, 6h 25m charging)
2022 Model 3 LR: 17h 20m (4 stops, 1h 28m)
2021 Model S LR: 17h 25m (4 stops, 1h 32m)
2021 Audi Q4 Etron 50 quattro: 21h 24m (6 stops, 3h 44m)
2022 Taycan 4s 93kwh: 19h 51m (6 stops, 2h 17m )
2022 Kia EV6 LR RWD: 19h 12m (5 stops, 1h 39m)
In my experience, add 15% for Teslas and add 25-30% for others. Majority of the difference between fast charging ones (Porsche, Kia) and Tesla is that you have to take slower/further route compared to Tesla since there are no chargers everywhere. Q4 and Bolt simply charge slow, as do most VW, Ford, Toyota, etc, models.
In my experience, this will all be worse by 20%, especially if some of the fast charging stations dont work for Taycan for instance.
The Bolt was probably chosen as the example because it has the lowest DC fast charge speed of any EV on sale in North America. I suspect that was already understood when it was given as the example... Most EVs have much more usable DC fast charging then the Bolt. You may as well be suggesting taking an ICE vehicle with a small tank and poor fuel economy on the same trip. It would be equally asinine.
So, this is my route when I go to WV. The gold pins with the Tesla logo are Tesla Superchargers, the gold pins with the electric bolt are Level 3 fast chargers. So plan with an EV is I would stop in either Raphine or Lexington along 81 before getting on 64 to head over the mountains and rapid charge there to 80%, Thats about half way, so I should have plenty of charge when I get there even for running around, and there are Superchargers and Level 3 Chargers in Beckley now, I could stop there on the way home, and would have no problem getting all the way back to the DC Metro area if not all the way home on one charge.
Stopping for 15-30 min is no big deal there, I can go to the bathroom and eat and be on the road again.
Also, most of us make the same trips over and over, so we know the route and where to stop etc, I already stop on that trip at the same places every time because I've been making it so long.
This is the Tesla map, it agrees a 20 min stop in Lexington:
To add to the above, ABRP says the same trip in my Lightning can be done with just over three hours or charging (3:15). Also, you have to let ABRP know to stay within the fastest charge zone. By default it’s likely to be assuming DCFC to 90 or even 100%. DCFC will generally slow significantly after 80 and in particular after 90%.
The Bolt was probably chosen as the example because it has the lowest DC fast charge speed of any EV on sale in North America. I suspect that was already understood when it was given as the example... Most EVs have much more usable DC fast charging
The Bolt was picked because it is the cheapest vehicle that closely resembles my Toyota Corolla Matrix in size and range. The range in my 2.4 is not great. The Bolt is also new. I have no clue what the charging rate are. I plan on replacing my Corolla Matrix soon, so a Prius non plug in would be ideal. So exploring the EV solution here as well with the long distance thought as well
Our point is most people don't regularly drive trips like that, or even ever drive trips like that.
Your not accounting for the many thousands "Snowbirds" that travel from northern states(Canada included) to southern states(Florida) every spring and fall. I was one once myself drove 1200mi one way. The present day EV as designed is not meant for it especially with the crappy charger network in the east which is the subject of this thread.
Your not accounting for the many thousands "Snowbirds" that travel from northern states(Canada included) to southern states(Florida) every spring and fall. I was one once myself drove 1200mi one way. The present day EV as designed is not meant for it especially with the crappy charger network in the east which is the subject of this thread.
And for those people an EV is not ideal. That doesn't mean it isn't ideal for a whole lot of people.
The issue is the Anti-EV crowd picks a niche group of people and shows that an EV wouldn't work for them and then declares that they "don't work".
12-28-22, 06:12 AM
straight to the park where we were holding the party. I was there 15 minutes before it ended, and was able to close it out nicely with all the parents, players, and coaches. About 2.5 hours, door-to-door.
