Who Did You Blow Away Today Or Vice Versa
08-16-09, 04:39 AM
#1700
hers some info that will shed some light on the 2jz na-t vs 1jz scnerio
a 2 jz na head and porting of the head from toyota was done very aggressively to squeeze every bit of power out of a na engine.. the long runners is proof of that in itself..
however , when doing a na-t setup with a gte block or gte pistons one has to now be more careful and mindful of detonation... the lowering of compression in a full gte setup is done via the recession in the pistons matched to a slightly recessed head.. now match the same recessed pistons to a head with a deeper recession and you have just killed the quench factor as designed by toyota engineers to fend off pre ignition...so it works and works well but pre iginition is easier to occur vs keeping na pistons (which ge and gte are both cast) and lowering compression via headgasket , so if you are going gte route for bottom end , you must go standalone to control that timing and then your fine
comparing the 2jz to 1jz , a 1jz is a perfect square motor ..bore and stroke are identical.. with the proper turbo and turbine housing and proper cams and on a standalone a 1jz will out revv and 2jz any day.. the area thats needs to work is gettting proper trq out of the 1jz.. thats its only flaw and you cannot replace the ability to free rev fast with displacement to make the trq...trq is what gets you going hp keeps you going...
with the right combo and if one can get the trq to come on linear like hp does then the 2jz is dead period , its the laws of physics
every dyno i seen with 1jz hp is great (howver with tons of boost due to .5liter less displacement) but trq is always quite less unlike the 2jz where trq usually follows hp..now the failing part of the 2jz is when you go above a certain power threshold trq stops following then we become dyno queens..
like for instance making 608 rwhp and only 500 trq as compared to someone in the 500 range with 460 trq....
the 1jz is by far a more forgiving motor then 2jz as it was designed to rev high and fast
my monies still on the trq of the 2jz and after truly watching a car like mr wicked's move like it did on friday night i dont belive theres a 1jz here that can match it
nuff said
a 2 jz na head and porting of the head from toyota was done very aggressively to squeeze every bit of power out of a na engine.. the long runners is proof of that in itself..
however , when doing a na-t setup with a gte block or gte pistons one has to now be more careful and mindful of detonation... the lowering of compression in a full gte setup is done via the recession in the pistons matched to a slightly recessed head.. now match the same recessed pistons to a head with a deeper recession and you have just killed the quench factor as designed by toyota engineers to fend off pre ignition...so it works and works well but pre iginition is easier to occur vs keeping na pistons (which ge and gte are both cast) and lowering compression via headgasket , so if you are going gte route for bottom end , you must go standalone to control that timing and then your fine
comparing the 2jz to 1jz , a 1jz is a perfect square motor ..bore and stroke are identical.. with the proper turbo and turbine housing and proper cams and on a standalone a 1jz will out revv and 2jz any day.. the area thats needs to work is gettting proper trq out of the 1jz.. thats its only flaw and you cannot replace the ability to free rev fast with displacement to make the trq...trq is what gets you going hp keeps you going...
with the right combo and if one can get the trq to come on linear like hp does then the 2jz is dead period , its the laws of physics
every dyno i seen with 1jz hp is great (howver with tons of boost due to .5liter less displacement) but trq is always quite less unlike the 2jz where trq usually follows hp..now the failing part of the 2jz is when you go above a certain power threshold trq stops following then we become dyno queens..
like for instance making 608 rwhp and only 500 trq as compared to someone in the 500 range with 460 trq....
the 1jz is by far a more forgiving motor then 2jz as it was designed to rev high and fast
my monies still on the trq of the 2jz and after truly watching a car like mr wicked's move like it did on friday night i dont belive theres a 1jz here that can match it
nuff said
08-16-09, 05:41 AM
#1702
damm you had to take me to africa and back to finally see the light
now we have that outta the way heres my excuse for not hanging in there against mr wicked
lack of power period , nuff said , that friggin car runs to strong cams people make a huge diff in mid to top end as i have witnessed first hand
08-16-09, 11:14 AM
#1703
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hers some info that will shed some light on the 2jz na-t vs 1jz scnerio
a 2 jz na head and porting of the head from toyota was done very aggressively to squeeze every bit of power out of a na engine.. the long runners is proof of that in itself..
however , when doing a na-t setup with a gte block or gte pistons one has to now be more careful and mindful of detonation... the lowering of compression in a full gte setup is done via the recession in the pistons matched to a slightly recessed head.. now match the same recessed pistons to a head with a deeper recession and you have just killed the quench factor as designed by toyota engineers to fend off pre ignition...so it works and works well but pre iginition is easier to occur vs keeping na pistons (which ge and gte are both cast) and lowering compression via headgasket , so if you are going gte route for bottom end , you must go standalone to control that timing and then your fine
comparing the 2jz to 1jz , a 1jz is a perfect square motor ..bore and stroke are identical.. with the proper turbo and turbine housing and proper cams and on a standalone a 1jz will out revv and 2jz any day.. the area thats needs to work is gettting proper trq out of the 1jz.. thats its only flaw and you cannot replace the ability to free rev fast with displacement to make the trq...trq is what gets you going hp keeps you going...
with the right combo and if one can get the trq to come on linear like hp does then the 2jz is dead period , its the laws of physics
every dyno i seen with 1jz hp is great (howver with tons of boost due to .5liter less displacement) but trq is always quite less unlike the 2jz where trq usually follows hp..now the failing part of the 2jz is when you go above a certain power threshold trq stops following then we become dyno queens..
like for instance making 608 rwhp and only 500 trq as compared to someone in the 500 range with 460 trq....
the 1jz is by far a more forgiving motor then 2jz as it was designed to rev high and fast
my monies still on the trq of the 2jz and after truly watching a car like mr wicked's move like it did on friday night i dont belive theres a 1jz here that can match it
nuff said
a 2 jz na head and porting of the head from toyota was done very aggressively to squeeze every bit of power out of a na engine.. the long runners is proof of that in itself..
however , when doing a na-t setup with a gte block or gte pistons one has to now be more careful and mindful of detonation... the lowering of compression in a full gte setup is done via the recession in the pistons matched to a slightly recessed head.. now match the same recessed pistons to a head with a deeper recession and you have just killed the quench factor as designed by toyota engineers to fend off pre ignition...so it works and works well but pre iginition is easier to occur vs keeping na pistons (which ge and gte are both cast) and lowering compression via headgasket , so if you are going gte route for bottom end , you must go standalone to control that timing and then your fine
comparing the 2jz to 1jz , a 1jz is a perfect square motor ..bore and stroke are identical.. with the proper turbo and turbine housing and proper cams and on a standalone a 1jz will out revv and 2jz any day.. the area thats needs to work is gettting proper trq out of the 1jz.. thats its only flaw and you cannot replace the ability to free rev fast with displacement to make the trq...trq is what gets you going hp keeps you going...
with the right combo and if one can get the trq to come on linear like hp does then the 2jz is dead period , its the laws of physics
every dyno i seen with 1jz hp is great (howver with tons of boost due to .5liter less displacement) but trq is always quite less unlike the 2jz where trq usually follows hp..now the failing part of the 2jz is when you go above a certain power threshold trq stops following then we become dyno queens..
like for instance making 608 rwhp and only 500 trq as compared to someone in the 500 range with 460 trq....
the 1jz is by far a more forgiving motor then 2jz as it was designed to rev high and fast
my monies still on the trq of the 2jz and after truly watching a car like mr wicked's move like it did on friday night i dont belive theres a 1jz here that can match it
nuff said
I respectfully disagree on a few points ^^^^ 1) In bone stock trim a 1J and 2J are only 0 hp apart in factory trim IE: 280 to 280 unless we are talking about the vvti 2j at 310 with that being said the bore and stroke of the 2jzgte is exactly square at 86mm in bore and stroke with compression ratios at 8.5 to1 in all gte's and 10.0 to 10.5 to 1 in ge blocks pending on the car it was going in and the 1jzgte is 86.0 mm bore and 71.5 mm stroke with compression ratios for gte's 8.5 to 9.0 to 1 depending on the car it was going in! the reason for this is height of piston between 1 and 2 js Flat top to dished pistons
http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20...spec_sheet.htm
2) The way to get more trq in a 1j or a 2j is to increase the runner length before the plenum which is the reason the ge 2j runner is so beautiful and the whole plenum is actually more efficient due to it feeding 3 on 3 from the plenum but that is where the ge and gte separate as we all know!
3) trq is always going to be a benefit of displacement but there are numerous ways to regain lost trq such as porting, controlling overlap in valves plenum design etc etc!
4) You also have to consider compression of the 2 engines, weight, true rpms Etc. Etc. not to mention all 1js were only available in JAPAN 2j have the benefit of being born on both shores so cams are different, injector impedance and size of injectors are different, turbo's are different, Egr valves, air flow meters etc. etc. so the variables are much larger even in usdm vs jdm 2js
Last edited by blk&blu*j; 08-16-09 at 11:30 AM.
08-16-09, 11:36 AM
#1704
thank you roger for the correction , for some reason i always thought it was the reverse but thanks for posting the correct info
however let me correct you as well 1jz bhp is 280 and 2jzgte is approx 320 bhp
however let me correct you as well 1jz bhp is 280 and 2jzgte is approx 320 bhp
Last edited by lexforlife; 08-16-09 at 11:45 AM.
08-16-09, 11:54 AM
#1705
"I respectfully disagree on a few points ^^^^ 1) In bone stock trim a 1J and 2J are only 0 hp apart in factory trim IE: 280 to 280 unless we are talking about the vvti 2j at 310"
Roger you are wrong about that the jdm gentleman agreement has them boith at the same hp, but they are not the usdm 2j is 320.
Roger you are wrong about that the jdm gentleman agreement has them boith at the same hp, but they are not the usdm 2j is 320.
08-16-09, 01:27 PM
#1707
You all should know in japan the car manufacturers can only make up to 280hp. But that is gone now. Even then the cars dynos number proved that the cars made more than 280hp. The skyline gtrs actually made over 300hp to the wheels. I believe since the new gtr came out they got rid of that regulation.
08-16-09, 09:06 PM
#1708
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Nuff already Build what you have to best of your financial ability..At the end of the day who gives a chit what someone things..It your car..Options are like( butts ) for lack of a much better word everyone's got one
It's CLFL at the end of the day..
Now lets go out there and kick some Nissan A$$
08-16-09, 09:25 PM
#1709
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Just a reminder I said this earlier and I meant it..
Nuff already Build what you have to best of your financial ability..At the end of the day who gives a chit what someone things..It your car..Options are like( butts ) for lack of a much better word everyone's got one
It's CLFL at the end of the day..
Now lets go out there and kick some Nissan A$$
Nuff already Build what you have to best of your financial ability..At the end of the day who gives a chit what someone things..It your car..Options are like( butts ) for lack of a much better word everyone's got one
It's CLFL at the end of the day..
Now lets go out there and kick some Nissan A$$
08-17-09, 07:22 AM
#1710
Lexus Test Driver
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Just a reminder I said this earlier and I meant it..
Nuff already Build what you have to best of your financial ability..At the end of the day who gives a chit what someone things..It your car..Options are like( butts ) for lack of a much better word everyone's got one
It's CLFL at the end of the day..
Now lets go out there and kick some Nissan A$$
Nuff already Build what you have to best of your financial ability..At the end of the day who gives a chit what someone things..It your car..Options are like( butts ) for lack of a much better word everyone's got one
It's CLFL at the end of the day..
Now lets go out there and kick some Nissan A$$