Who Did You Blow Away Today Or Vice Versa
11-26-08, 05:51 AM
#391
btw john , ur car runs strong and outstanding on the emanage but rem this , although you have a smaller turbo then dave you essentially have the same platform and at 20psi you are hitting 462 and dave at 22psi is at 675 , in other words your setup would be a true beast on a standalone with the same componets you currently have .. i would bet at 20 to 22psi on a standalone you would be in the mid 500 range for you would have total control of your timing and fuel
11-26-08, 06:42 AM
#392
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On John's GT35r at 20psi his HP is pretty much on point based on his airflow map. An emanage is tuned just as a standalone is. It tunes fuel and timing just as a full standalone does. It also changes the spark firing to sequential just like a standalone does. you also set your rev cut point and you build a map just like you do a stanalone. So in my opinion there is not much you can gain from a standalone powerwise in this scenerio. What dictates the difference is the tuner and not the Fuel Mngmnt.
11-26-08, 07:29 AM
#393
Ed, I have to agree with Din that one.
On John's GT35r at 20psi his HP is pretty much on point based on his airflow map. An emanage is tuned just as a standalone is. It tunes fuel and timing just as a full standalone does. It also changes the spark firing to sequential just like a standalone does. you also set your rev cut point and you build a map just like you do a stanalone. So in my opinion there is not much you can gain from a standalone powerwise in this scenerio. What dictates the difference is the tuner and not the Fuel Mngmnt.
On John's GT35r at 20psi his HP is pretty much on point based on his airflow map. An emanage is tuned just as a standalone is. It tunes fuel and timing just as a full standalone does. It also changes the spark firing to sequential just like a standalone does. you also set your rev cut point and you build a map just like you do a stanalone. So in my opinion there is not much you can gain from a standalone powerwise in this scenerio. What dictates the difference is the tuner and not the Fuel Mngmnt.
where do you guys get ur info from
driveline loss on manuel is between 12-15% driveline loss on auto between 18-23% and john would be on low end because of shift kit/valve body upgrade
emanage is a piggyback no matter how you slice it , it intercepts the signal and makes adjustments to timing by delaying sig pos or neg so no direct control .. it still relies generally speaking on stock ecu main maps as a look up point for ref and makes adjustments accordingly
if john was on a standalone with same components he would be easily in the mid to low 500 range
taken from greddys own website
"The GReddy e-manage Ultimate is as close to a stand-alone management system as you can get while maintaining the best features of a "piggy-back" engine management; an economical price, the usage of existing sensors, the ability to easily alter factory settings and not having to tune from scratch. But unlike the original e-manage, the Ultimate is more refined, requiring specific application usage " ALTER IS THE KEYWORD THERE not program as a good tuner would say "what numbers i program in are what comes out , nothing to fight or change"
ultimate is probably the best piggyback out there but its still a piggyback for us na-t's standalone is a neccessary evil
Last edited by lexforlife; 11-26-08 at 07:35 AM.
11-26-08, 07:32 AM
#394
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,872
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was talking about the REAL Ge blocks, not that weakling vvti they called a 2j. Totoya got smarter in 98 and made it weak so you dont have a choice but to upgrade the internals if you want to make power.
11-26-08, 08:14 AM
#395
If John was a manual with a 12% or 15% drive train lost he only loses between 55.6 HP to 69.6 HP and but since he is manual he loses between 89.5 HP to 102.3 HP when it hits the pavement. if he was manual he would be at close to or above the 500 mark.
shift kits and valve body upgrades don't give you power but simply give you a better timing response out of your transmission. by being in two gears at once when shifting up. It's known as shift overlap. Shift kits reduce or eliminate the shift overlap and speed up actuation of the shift, hence the harder feel to the shift. A shift kit will reduce wear because you won't have the trans trying to be in two gears at once."
this just mean the car can handle more without breaking.
11-26-08, 08:19 AM
#396
If John was a manual with a 12% or 15% drive train lost he only loses between 55.6 HP to 69.6 HP and but since he is manual he loses between 89.5 HP to 102.3 HP when it hits the pavement. if he was manual he would be at close to or above the 500 mark.
shift kits and valve body upgrades don't give you power but simply give you a better timing response out of your transmission. by being in two gears at once when shifting up. It's known as shift overlap. Shift kits reduce or eliminate the shift overlap and speed up actuation of the shift, hence the harder feel to the shift. A shift kit will reduce wear because you won't have the trans trying to be in two gears at once."
this just mean the car can handle more without breaking.
shift kits and valve body upgrades don't give you power but simply give you a better timing response out of your transmission. by being in two gears at once when shifting up. It's known as shift overlap. Shift kits reduce or eliminate the shift overlap and speed up actuation of the shift, hence the harder feel to the shift. A shift kit will reduce wear because you won't have the trans trying to be in two gears at once."
this just mean the car can handle more without breaking.
valve body upgrade alter line pressure sir and by altering line pressure it brings the shifts quicker and by bringing it on quicker can help to min drive train loss slightly by keeping it within powerband as opposed to delaying the shift points as designed by toyota for a smooth transition
and with standalone control timing would be brought on at diff points to improve trq delivery hence making more power on same boost, now if john also changed out trq converter to say a 3200 or 3400 stall his car would be a true rocket
11-26-08, 08:28 AM
#397
taken from greddys own website
"The GReddy e-manage Ultimate is as close to a stand-alone management system as you can get while maintaining the best features of a "piggy-back" engine management; an economical price, the usage of existing sensors, the ability to easily alter factory settings and not having to tune from scratch. But unlike the original e-manage, the Ultimate is more refined, requiring specific application usage " ALTER IS THE KEYWORD THERE not program as a good tuner would say "what numbers i program in are what comes out , nothing to fight or change"
ultimate is probably the best piggyback out there but its still a piggyback for us na-t's standalone is a neccessary evil
"The GReddy e-manage Ultimate is as close to a stand-alone management system as you can get while maintaining the best features of a "piggy-back" engine management; an economical price, the usage of existing sensors, the ability to easily alter factory settings and not having to tune from scratch. But unlike the original e-manage, the Ultimate is more refined, requiring specific application usage " ALTER IS THE KEYWORD THERE not program as a good tuner would say "what numbers i program in are what comes out , nothing to fight or change"
ultimate is probably the best piggyback out there but its still a piggyback for us na-t's standalone is a neccessary evil
You are correct
but for daily driver we prefer the use of piggybacks simply because most are very easy to tune and with a wideband street tuned it to your liking. for a daily driver I would PREFER a piggyback because you can when you drive alot and especially when your going from one state to the other like lets say New York my brothers Supra when it was up there he had a problem with a cold start the car was cranking and cranking but it kept shutting off and eventually it started. but when I had the E-mangle blue it started with one crank.
11-26-08, 08:28 AM
#398
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 1,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point noted!
Even if he had a standalone his power will not be much different then what it is now. For 2 very fundamental reasons. His Air flow map based on his turbo's spec and his 550cc injectors. More than 470 you enter the red zone in 550cc injector's duty cycle. You can make more than 500 on his set up but it wont be reliable on whatever fuel mngmnt system. He can adjust timing and squeeze out a few more horses but still you are out of the safe duty cycle. If he adds bigger injectors, his timing map can be adjust and make more power at 20psi.
A piggyback will always be a piggyback, but does not mean that it makes less power if tuned properly.
So it comes down to how verse you tuner is with your set up.
Even if he had a standalone his power will not be much different then what it is now. For 2 very fundamental reasons. His Air flow map based on his turbo's spec and his 550cc injectors. More than 470 you enter the red zone in 550cc injector's duty cycle. You can make more than 500 on his set up but it wont be reliable on whatever fuel mngmnt system. He can adjust timing and squeeze out a few more horses but still you are out of the safe duty cycle. If he adds bigger injectors, his timing map can be adjust and make more power at 20psi.
A piggyback will always be a piggyback, but does not mean that it makes less power if tuned properly.
So it comes down to how verse you tuner is with your set up.
jesus
where do you guys get ur info from
driveline loss on manuel is between 12-15% driveline loss on auto between 18-23% and john would be on low end because of shift kit/valve body upgrade
emanage is a piggyback no matter how you slice it , it intercepts the signal and makes adjustments to timing by delaying sig pos or neg so no direct control .. it still relies generally speaking on stock ecu main maps as a look up point for ref and makes adjustments accordingly
if john was on a standalone with same components he would be easily in the mid to low 500 range
taken from greddys own website
"The GReddy e-manage Ultimate is as close to a stand-alone management system as you can get while maintaining the best features of a "piggy-back" engine management; an economical price, the usage of existing sensors, the ability to easily alter factory settings and not having to tune from scratch. But unlike the original e-manage, the Ultimate is more refined, requiring specific application usage " ALTER IS THE KEYWORD THERE not program as a good tuner would say "what numbers i program in are what comes out , nothing to fight or change"
ultimate is probably the best piggyback out there but its still a piggyback for us na-t's standalone is a neccessary evil
where do you guys get ur info from
driveline loss on manuel is between 12-15% driveline loss on auto between 18-23% and john would be on low end because of shift kit/valve body upgrade
emanage is a piggyback no matter how you slice it , it intercepts the signal and makes adjustments to timing by delaying sig pos or neg so no direct control .. it still relies generally speaking on stock ecu main maps as a look up point for ref and makes adjustments accordingly
if john was on a standalone with same components he would be easily in the mid to low 500 range
taken from greddys own website
"The GReddy e-manage Ultimate is as close to a stand-alone management system as you can get while maintaining the best features of a "piggy-back" engine management; an economical price, the usage of existing sensors, the ability to easily alter factory settings and not having to tune from scratch. But unlike the original e-manage, the Ultimate is more refined, requiring specific application usage " ALTER IS THE KEYWORD THERE not program as a good tuner would say "what numbers i program in are what comes out , nothing to fight or change"
ultimate is probably the best piggyback out there but its still a piggyback for us na-t's standalone is a neccessary evil
11-26-08, 08:29 AM
#399
again din wrong info
valve body upgrade alter line pressure sir and by altering line pressure it brings the shifts quicker and by bringing it on quicker can help to min drive train loss slightly by keeping it within powerband as opposed to delaying the shift points as designed by toyota for a smooth transition
and with standalone control timing would be brought on at diff points to improve trq delivery hence making more power on same boost, now if john also changed out trq converter to say a 3200 or 3400 stall his car would be a true rocket
valve body upgrade alter line pressure sir and by altering line pressure it brings the shifts quicker and by bringing it on quicker can help to min drive train loss slightly by keeping it within powerband as opposed to delaying the shift points as designed by toyota for a smooth transition
and with standalone control timing would be brought on at diff points to improve trq delivery hence making more power on same boost, now if john also changed out trq converter to say a 3200 or 3400 stall his car would be a true rocket
BUZZ WRONG INFO ED
read it
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/shift-kits.html
Last edited by DINH300; 11-26-08 at 08:45 AM.
11-26-08, 08:34 AM
#400
again din wrong info
valve body upgrade alter line pressure sir and by altering line pressure it brings the shifts quicker and by bringing it on quicker can help to min drive train loss slightly by keeping it within powerband as opposed to delaying the shift points as designed by toyota for a smooth transition
and with standalone control timing would be brought on at diff points to improve trq delivery hence making more power on same boost, now if john also changed out trq converter to say a 3200 or 3400 stall his car would be a true rocket
valve body upgrade alter line pressure sir and by altering line pressure it brings the shifts quicker and by bringing it on quicker can help to min drive train loss slightly by keeping it within powerband as opposed to delaying the shift points as designed by toyota for a smooth transition
and with standalone control timing would be brought on at diff points to improve trq delivery hence making more power on same boost, now if john also changed out trq converter to say a 3200 or 3400 stall his car would be a true rocket
11-26-08, 08:45 AM
#402
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,872
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are correct
but for daily driver we prefer the use of piggybacks simply because most are very easy to tune and with a wideband street tuned it to your liking. for a daily driver I would PREFER a piggyback because you can when you drive alot and especially when your going from one state to the other like lets say New York my brothers Supra when it was up there he had a problem with a cold start the car was cranking and cranking but it kept shutting off and eventually it started. but when I had the E-mangle blue it started with one crank.
but for daily driver we prefer the use of piggybacks simply because most are very easy to tune and with a wideband street tuned it to your liking. for a daily driver I would PREFER a piggyback because you can when you drive alot and especially when your going from one state to the other like lets say New York my brothers Supra when it was up there he had a problem with a cold start the car was cranking and cranking but it kept shutting off and eventually it started. but when I had the E-mangle blue it started with one crank.
Last edited by sc250tt; 11-26-08 at 08:49 AM.
11-26-08, 08:51 AM
#403
the stock ECU tunes itself base on O2 sensors if I am correct. When you tune on a AEM FIC, Emanage Ultimate, Map Ecu2 and etc what alot of people do not acknowledge is O2 Feed back. When you tune your car for boost you also tune your car so the O2 sensor feedback so that your stock ECU does not see boost from the O2 sensors so it keeps the stock ecu in its cycle.
When I had my application I had a Split Sec ESC-1 so the car never saw boost and I was tuning on a E-manage blue. I ran 438 on 14PSI and for over a year.
11-26-08, 08:54 AM
#404
You are correct
but for daily driver we prefer the use of piggybacks simply because most are very easy to tune and with a wideband street tuned it to your liking. for a daily driver I would PREFER a piggyback because you can when you drive alot and especially when your going from one state to the other like lets say New York my brothers Supra when it was up there he had a problem with a cold start the car was cranking and cranking but it kept shutting off and eventually it started. but when I had the E-mangle blue it started with one crank.
but for daily driver we prefer the use of piggybacks simply because most are very easy to tune and with a wideband street tuned it to your liking. for a daily driver I would PREFER a piggyback because you can when you drive alot and especially when your going from one state to the other like lets say New York my brothers Supra when it was up there he had a problem with a cold start the car was cranking and cranking but it kept shutting off and eventually it started. but when I had the E-mangle blue it started with one crank.
rem on standalone we have no 02 feedback to confuse things .. i have zero coldstart , hotstart idle or any other problems period
11-26-08, 08:56 AM
#405
