drewgo

That guy blew cuz he had a 2j. Be it a 1j, he'd still be running FLAWLESSLY!

Although the debate is good. As a side note, There is a glass of wine for every kind of food.
This is becoming a "who's fuel management system is better" kinda of back and forth.

I agree with Ed on many points, being the adaptability of the tunning. In which you can pretty much
do anything you'd like with it. I also agree with Jordan.
Both control fuel and timing. In this case EMU. And both have it's pros and cons.
I must say I was not a fan of the EMU until recent. And that for a number of reason.
I also must say that I see John's car and it's been chuggin along for almost 2 years now and still moving.
He's got a lead foot and holding strong. So there is a strong validity to the discussion, in defense to the "piggy back".
Now in regards to the AEM. It's like everything. Ed, your car purs like a kitten and morphs into a lion(u like that analogy) because of how Alpha tunes so Depending on the tuner will determine the outcome. The sky is the limit. You can pretty much
do what you'd like but again depending on the tuner. I've seen cars blow up on both set up. Reliable should not be in our dictionary. If we wanted reliablity we should of just left our cars stock, Period. But in our quest for more power we balance
how much power can I achieve versus how much power can I get away with and for how long.
Some think that 500 is the threshold of reliable power in the jz motors. Others think 600. Others don't give a rat's @ss just build it to blow it and then to find out it never does. Some run highly sophisticated Standalone and make 550 and others just run an AFC and make 600. My point in this matter is there is no point. Ed you can blow your motor with the standalone just as much as I can spin a bearing because I went with a thinner oil in exchange for quick rev. The truth is, anyone that is reading this and has a turbo in their ride, THEY WILL blow their motors. It's a fact! No one is spared. It is the nature of our obsession.

AMEN!

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

It might still be running, but it would have lost the race to the bike

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

dre i must say ,well puthowever for the sake of some who might be reading this trying to make a decision when going boost what to use for fuel management let me add this

if you are going na-t and seeking upwards of 400 rwhp , dont skimp or halfa$$ the build , you must go standalone for it to run correctly and safely period

if you are going gte route and are only seeking in the 500 range a vpc/safc , map ecu route will work if you are jdm gte then greddy edamage will work but if you plan on rising into mr wickeds terr close to mid 500's on up , go full standalone to ensure a complete and safe tune and full control ( but make sure you use a fully competent tuner) as jordan would say garbage in garbage out


now i agree with the statement that people using safc , emu and aem/haltech can all blow due to lack of tuners skills however all thing s being equal and assuming you are using a fully competent tuner the standalone route will always be the safest route to go period.. aem being good stuff but once we talk about the new haltech and motec units or even pro efi

when teelex did his build terry went aem from jump st , terrys like me reasearches things to death , their was a specific reason he went standalone from day one

90% of top tuners wont even go near safc, emu etc , inclusive of alpha because of the fighting stock ecu scnerio... jordan talk to me in a couple of weeks or so and tell me your lt fuel trims have not been altertered slighlty due to ecu making corrections, i know john has had slight back and forth issues with his tune over the last 2 years as i have as well when i was map ecu...why fight it , as crispeed would always preach to me , what numbers you plug in will always be the numbers coming out , nothin to fight me (btw he wont go near any type of piggyback period)


so this being said , you as the car owner make the decision what risks and rewards are you willing to take but dont decide lightly or you might just hear kaboom

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

You will never get an argument out of me if you are going to push well beyond factory limitations to not go stand alone. In your case with the NA-T, stock timing, fueling, etc are all wrong for a boosted application and thus would be a terrible starting point.

Remember the time before EMS? When Haltech was the big dog with its DOS interface, or perhaps SDS with its two line hand programmer and no computer at all costing roughly $1500+?

What did everybody else do? FMU and maybe the MSD BTM (boost/timing retard). It wasn't the best solution, but it worked and made power. With the rapid proliferation of EMS options out there, these things are pretty much going to the way side now. I cut my teeth on my own cars tuning what you guys would call NA-T setups and in that case would not accept anything less than a standalone for maximum reliabilty....but in the case of the factory turbo 2JZ-GT ECU, the variables are different and it all depends on how much power you want to make.

As for the Edamange, I have not had a problem with wavering fuel trims and its been installed in the car since I had the twins. The trick with that is NOT fight the ECU when its in closed loop. If you nail the fuel down so it is close to what the stock ECU wants, it won't adjust its internal maps significantly throwing off the tune. This is not easy to do on a dynojet dyno as you can't control the load, which is why for a complete tune you need to tweak it some on the street or use a loadable dyno like a Mustang unit. I'll prove my point with the EMU with the power I'll make consistently with it on the rollers and with trap speed (cuz I can't launch for crap)....oh and beating you on the street

I just want people to know you do NOT have to go AEM if your power goals are moddest for a 2J or 1J....just look at the guys making near 500hp on stock fuel (mk4 guys) and minimal adjustment and running for a long time. This car has an EMU because Jon's car runs strong making reliable power and the price was more than right for a new unit straight out the box with harness....I paid a LOT less than a new AEM EMS and so far have achieved the goals I've set out to make with it....that's a win in my book.

Eventually this car will see a full standalone for a variety of reasons, none of which will be because the current tuning solution was not sufficient though.

All this being said, if you wanted to give me your AEM EMS, I definitely wouldn't turn it down

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

its still a crappy wanna be standalone piggyback

sc5sdanny

dont be cheap!!! avoid the headaches... go standalone

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

That's gonna smoke you Coolant still staying put?

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

i highly doubt that and so far yes

btw i did a pull last night finally looking at boost guage for a change and my low boost setting is only hitting about 17psi so i will gladly give you a full 23psi next time after retune i am sure the t67dbb will spool as quick or almost as quick as the 6262 you have but hit harder up top with the .81 and the cams going in , yes sir cams so bring it bring bring it

( oh chit did i just allow jordan to suck me into this stupid vacumn)

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

HAHAH! bring it boooyyy!!! Doesn't really matter as Jerome will fly by us anyways

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

aint that the truth brotha or is it

blk&blu*j

iTrader: (1)

Only if Rudys driving

blk&blu*j

iTrader: (1)

LExforlife,

I hate to bring up the relative recent past but I seem to remember you with a piggyback system (Map ecu) on your present car and the test and tune strip that you used almost daily while you were playing with the laptop for whatever the reason !!

After reading this thread bouncing back and forth like a Wimbledon tennis match I can't help but laugh, no offense Ed but really is their any opinion allowed except yours! We all share a common bond In my opinion, and all on here are building or rebuilding their toys to whatever there finances allow, but for you to degrade others choice of management is a shame and truly not a benefit to anybody but you and your ego!!!

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

...
here we go again , mr ego himself is here to set the record straight , lets all listen to mr ego who knows all speak and degrade and provide little actual info to the community

i knew it was a matter of time before the likes of your type to come in here and create stupid remarks like that ..

what info have you provided , i provided very real and factual info gained from my own firsthand exp and knowledge obtained from some of the best tuners in the country ( alpha,john reed , justin nenni , darin crispeed andre)to help out esp the na-t people and to provide some insight based on common sense approach and not the wallet approach if you cant handle the truth get out

shaodome

iTrader: (3)

I think ed has tried really hard not to degrade our choice of management, just point out the benefit of standalone vs SOME piggy back setups.

This thread is very much like bench racing...what matters is what people are doing in REALITY...and that reality is 2JZGTE users are making well into 500whp+ without extensive management over stock and have been doing so for many years. We could have the same conversation between an AEM EMS and a MoTec.

I'm going to say it again....I would love to have some of the guys who do this for a living chime in here...I have nothing but respect for the work that comes out of Crisspeeds shop (those evos are gangster) and clearly the cars Alpha tunes run great as well...originally I was trying to find out what these engines like for timing since I figured with the amount of tuning that goes on it would be easy. If I have to spend the time doing my own research on the rollers I will as it looks like that will be the case and I understand that....each tuner has there own opinions, tricks, methods....especially those doing it for a living, so why would they want to give up there competitive advantage?

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

thank you jordan for thats all my intent here is , he seems to forget about the problems i used to have with the tune changing , car shutting off in boost etc etc etc , i would not like one of my brothers to go thru what i went thru period if the pocket can afford

jordan , if you want to comapre your timing map to the one alpha did for me you are welcome to come to the dyno for alpha always did tell me that the boost some guys are running on stock timing was very scary to him to consider it a safe tune for higher boost applications