I stumbled on this site and this one guy's search for a luxury sportscar replacement for his Mark VIII. He's apparently an automotive engineer of sorts and some of the info he gives about the American manufacturers vs the Japanese, in his dealings with both, are pretty interesting IMO. It really shouldn't surprise anyone here however, when he talks about the corporate people here and abroad and their distinctly different views on what they want, as far as quality vs cost, and how they go about it. Very good reading. I was wondering if anyone has seen him here at CL (I might've missed it) because he sure has a lot of knowledge about cars and how the industry operates.If he's not visited CL yet, perhaps he will in the near future. Interesting fellow. If you don't want to read his Lincoln review, or his Jaguar review, at least read his GS thread (last link).

His first test drive, Lincoln TC. The last post in this thread is the important one, which has implications to the last link. Heh.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=654

Next he test drives an XJR, which is really amazing to me because that is the car I wanted, and I also test drove one just prior to purchasing my GS. Small world;

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=661

And finally- Drumroll please, look what he winds up buying (GS400) His one long post here has a lot of arcane info that speaks to the differences between the domestics and the imports. I have no reason to disbelieve him, so it saddens me that, if true, Detroit still doesn't "get it";

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=1023

 

He is here. Same name: RRocket.

Here's the thread where he introduced himself.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hreadid=123030

 

Also, here's where he first came on the furm asking about the XJR vs the GS.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...threadid=96132

 

damn you guys got good memory @_@

good read though

 

Dan,

Yes..that was me. I also test drove many other cars. I do miss some options that my Mark VIII had that the GS does not. I also miss the aftermarket parts for the Mark VIII (4.6 DOHC as found in the Mustang Cobra since 1996). The Lincoln, while slower stock, will run 13's with ease with minimal cash outlay. But I do love the GS. It is a rung higher up on the food chain from the Mark. My 1st project will be to have a custom exhaust made. We had similar problems with the Mark VIII, in that a "cat-back" system gave minimal, if any horsepower. When we altered pipe diameter, and a few other tricks, the custom exhaust made 15 RWHP on the Marks 4.6 DOHC engine. I suspect similar results can be had on the GS. And yes..the comments about domestic vs. import is dead on. The domestics STILL don't get it. They are starting to get closer, but still not quite. They are all about CHEAP, not QUALITY.

 

Where was this Gem?

or was it this one...

Typo on the first account?

 

Ron, it's great to see you're already here. I found your personal experiences in your job intriguing to read.

I have a younger friend of mine that has a '94 Mark VIII, and having driven it, it's a nice car, but it doesn't quite reach the same bar as my GS400, in performance or build quality. I am waiting for Ford to get with it, I'd like to see them compete personally, I'm just smart enough not to hold my breath yet. This from a guy that used to be a "domestics only" buyer. Now I have to get the most I can for our money. Our GS has yet to see the shop and I have no regrets. Good luck with yours, and thanks for spotting this thread and all your previous comments. I have learned a few things.

Keep us up to date on your mods.

 

Hey RRocket, your profile says Wisconsin, but after reading the thread on the other forum, it appears you also live in Canada. Which one is correct?

I also live in Canada and I find it very hard to get owners of GS's to get together for a meet. Everybody always has some lame excuse or another.

We need to get together sometime if you ever come up to Toronto.

 

RRocket
I read you opinion of US made cars as you know everyone has their opinions. Last night I informed my wife I am seriously considering selling my 2001 GS300 with 25K miles CPO after 3.5 months of ownership. She was not surprised. Everytime we get in the car she has to drive so I can try to pinpoint a rattle or creaking sound. At this point it is second nature for me to reach up and pull the sun shade close every 5 minutes so I do not have to hear it. I have eliminated about 65% of the noises, but their always seems to me another one creaping up.

My wife has an US made Envoy with 30K miles not a creak, squeak or rattle and a much better torque curve than the GS 300, and cost about 14K less when compared to a new GS 300. Never been to the dealer.

On vacation I rented a Pontiac Grand AM, once again much better torque curve and not a squeak, creak or rattle. The whole time I am driving it I am thinking to myself how the hell can this thing not have a rattle and my 44K gs300 sound like a bowl of rice crispies. Ran like a champ and cost about 30K cheaper than a new GS 300. I may very well buy one just for kicks.

I sold a 97 Bonneville with 130K miles and never had squek,creak or rattle.

I agree the interior pieces of theGS 300 are of higher quality but not 10K plus higher. The noises that these cars and the entire lexus line makes is/should be embarasing to Lexus. I have a issue with noises, I know most people do not, it is my hang up. I will say Lexus would have come close to the perfect car if not for the noises and a little bit better torque curve, which could have been corrected with a responsive transmission.

My buddy has a Toyatal 4Runner and it is plagued with nit picking noises also.

As far as resale value, they all depreciate the same. A Lexus you pay 45K sell it five years later for 15K. A gm you pay 30K and five years later it sells for 5K. The lexus dropped 30K the GM dropped 25K.

 

very interesting incite on the domestic vs import approach to production quality. I too refuse to buy American just for it's own sake. Hell, half of American autos are built in other countries now anyway.

Guitarman, very interesting thread, thanks for sharing the info.

 

RRocket, check out this thread

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...5&pagenumber=1

 

Hameed,

I am Canadian. I live in Windsor. My mom lives in WI. So sometimes I put my "home" as WI....like a home away from home!! Not only should we get together...we should meet halfway at St. Thomas dragway for a nite of racing and bench racing!

Unfortunately, even Lexus cars are plague with a problems....by quite a bit less than other makes. No car will be flawless. The ratings from JD Power proves that out, as even Lexus has a problem or two per car. My Lincoln (which was a 1997 by the way..ALOT better than the 94 model!) had few problems. My fiancee has a 2002 Olds Alero (I told her to get a Camry), and that thing has been in the shop many, many times. She is on her 5th set of front wheel bearings, among many other problems. Are Lexus perfect? Certainly not. But I can tell you that the Japanese are ahead of the game as far as quality goes. Their attention to detail is peerless. I would much rather drive a Lex, than most any domestic. It's a shame XYZ is having problems. But I would say my experience is a little more than "opinion". I see how the tools are built, and how mindful they are of quality. I just wish you'd had a better experience. What domestic product do you feel would be a worthy replacement for the GS300??

It was definitely 258RWHP. The 275 was either a type or a dream!!

 

RRocket:

I am different than most people in that my expectations of a car are directly related to its cost. I paid 29K (out the door including taxes) for a 2001 GS 300 with 28K miles. Every Lexus I have driven (11 total) from the ES300/330 to LS 430 exhibits the same characteristic noises that mine does. I do not agree with the fact that foreign cars are of higher quality or better value than domestic. Take mine for example, the original buyer purchased for 43K including tax. At trade-in they gave him 26K, the Lexus depreciated 17K over 2.5 years or 6,800 per year. Sure it looks impressive that a 2.5 year car sold for 27K prior to taxes but it cost 43K to begin with. Take a Pontiac Bonneville, new it cost $24K out the door. In 2.5 years it will sell for 12K? it has depreciated only 12K, 5K less than the Lexus. It is obvious to me that foreign car depreciate at the same rate.

As far as quality, you had the Lincoln I bet your Lexus will see the dealer more than the Lincoln. Look at you headlights the next time it rains, you will see condensate. Listen to your sunroof noises, they will wear on you. Look at the suggested Lexus maintenance schedule and compare to your Licoln. This is why I am so annoyed by the noises I hear in the Lexus, the cheap, low cost domestics did not make them, but they did calculate my gas mileage, they did turn on the windshield wipers and very the speed automatically, I could program the doors to unlock in the sequece I wanted without having to see the dealer. Hell they even got better gas mileage.

The only other Japanese car I had was a Mazda Miata. The engine cratered because the wrong thrust bearing was installed at the factory, replaced under warranty. I never had an engine replaced before. Do not buy a 99 or 00 Miata it is better know as the #4 thrust bearing failure.

Each manufacturer has their high and low points, but to say the foreign cars are better than domestic on a dollar for dollar based is not accurate.

 

Sorry my car had 22K miles when I purchased it.

 

everyone has the right to their opinion, but to state that a Lexus will see the shop more than a Lincoln is quite a sweeping speculation. Good luck proving that one. And again, JD Powers states that Lexus is tops in reliability over the long term.

Reliability = lower TCO (total cost of ownership) over time = a better value dollar for dollar. How long do you REALLY think that Lincoln is going to be on the road vs a similarly maintained Lexus?

Not to mention that along with said value comes unparalleled customer service if/when the time comes.

Quite honestly, XYZ, I've never seen someone complain so much about their Lexus on these boards and still keep the car. Why not just trade it back in on something "American-made"? Not flaming, just curious.

The depreciation numbers you posted further proves that the Lexus in your example is a smarter investment. What you're not seeing here is that the Lexus depreciated by approx. 40%, while the Bonneville has depreciated by 50%. For putting money into something that is guaranteed to lose value, I guess it's all about what's important to the consumer...driving a nicer car with relative bang-for-the-buck (Lexus) or saving some $$$ and buying something that is more common.