Manaray

Zushwa...thanks for the idea...

Here's the link:

https://www.clublexus.com/vb/showthr...5&pagenumber=1

One thing that isn't covered in the 1/2/3-piece thing.

3-piece rims consist of a inner lip, outer lip, and center. The best 3 piece rims are FORGED. Forging (this is a quicky description) consists of taking a block of aluminum (usually aircraft grade) and pressing it (with a LOT of force) into a disk. This disk is then CNC machined into the center of the wheel. The disk is also hardened to improve strength. Then the inner and outer rims (which are produced by a different method..) are all assembled with Titanium bolts (in the case of HRE's) and then silicon sealed. These are the best rims you can buy for a REASONABLE amount of money (1-piece forged rims exist but they are EXTREMELY rare and EXTREMELY expensive...L-Sportline sells a forged Magnesium rim from Japan which is like $2800/each or something like that and only come in 19")

There are also cast 3-piece rims...the casting quality and techinque on theses rims are usually far superior to the typical cast 1-piece wheel but, in my opinion, not as good as a forged wheel...


2-Piece rims are similiar to the 3 piece but utilizes only 2 pieces rather than 3. The Centers are still forged in the case of HRE's...there are, of course, cast 2-piece wheels also.

1- Piece rims are usually cast rims (metal is poured into a mold). This is the lowest cost rim (usually). Pretty strong (if the cast method is good) and by far, the most popular type of rim (due to price mostly)

The Kranze Shoki is a 3 piece cast rim. Weds produces great quality rims. Finding a Weds importer will be a problem. I don't know what happen to Dave at GTA but he hasn't been answering his phone or anything...I hope he's ok!

I LOVE the Shoki also (as I do the Hartge Classic which is a similiar rim but Hartge is a BMW tuner), but the Shoki (and Classic) only come in 19". For me, I wanted 20's....

gs4power

Hi Manaray,

Thanks for you explanation. I agree with you that 1-piece forged wheels are very rare . In my view they're the finest, the TRUE thing.

I may add though, the Volk Racing TE37 is a 1 piece, truly- forged aluminum rim at a reasonable price, priced lower than most HRE models. The L-sportline wheel you mentioned and the Volk TE37 MAG are much more expensive because they're made from magnesium.

I chose the TE37's because they're the most technically advanced aluminum wheels on the market, and reasonably priced.

Manaray

Personally, I like 3 piece wheels because you can get Deep lips (stop it)....I like the look of deep dished wheels (not necessarily "dish" style wheels). You can get them in more size variations...I don't know of any 1-piece forged 20" rims.

Plus, I can buy the rims in one width and later on, I can widen or narrow (say I buy another car) the rim w/o much hassle (can't do that at all on a 1-piece rim of any sort).

1-piece forged rims have a VERY VERY limited design selection. This is combination of a few things...limitations of the CNCing process which is due to lack of development because there isn't enough demand/market (people just don't know!)...

Also, say they made a 20" forged wheel, it would probably cost at least as much as a HRE wheel if not more...however, if I hit a pothole or run over a pedestrian or something and I dent the rim, I'll have to buy a whole new rim...with a 3 piece, I can just changed out the bent lip and go about my merry way...

The Volk TE37 is a nice rim...If I was doing up a serious track car, I would use the Mag version myself...however, I really wanted at LEAST a 19" rim...the L-Sportline wheel didn't really do it for me...if I was in LOVE with the design, I would have bought them, but the design was just OK and the price was too high for something I just thought was "OK"...

GS4Will

Hello Miguel,


there are several rays 1-piece, forged wheels that caugt my attention. mainly the F-0 line. would mind telling me how much you paid for the TE-37s, and where did you picked them up from? last time you told me you got your toyos at a duty-free port.

thanks.

will

gs4power

Manaray,

The production limitation on 1 piece forged wheels does not lie in the machinning process - any decent CNC center can do that. It lies on the forging process, which requires extremely sophisticated tools, and relatively small wheel manufactures like HRE can't afford those. Only a few, mostly japanese companies, have the necessary technical resourses.

Keep in mind 1 piece forged wheels are made for pure performance and not looks, so bigger than 18" would not make sense.

In my experience, I can tell you that bending them is VERY unlikely (remember they're forged AT the lip)- My old stock 17" where all badly bent and cracked (third-world roads here) and the TE37's haven't shown the slightest of bends. I'm pretty impressed.

gs4power

Hi gs4will,

When I was browsing for wheels, I asked Volk about the F-0 series. I liked the style very much (they're GORGEOUS) but wasn't impressed by their weight which was top priority for me.

Actually, the F-0s are not single piece forged wheels, but two soldered pieces . The weight of a 18"x8.0 F-0 wheel like the Daytona is 25 lbs. The rest of the F-0 series weight about the same. 25 lbs is good but not impressive, so it's likely some of the pieces is not forged. HRE's weight 23 lbs on that size and the TE37s weight 16 lb. (Sorry, I'm a wheel weight freak )

I got the wheels from David at GTAutosports.

18" x 8.5 $560
18" x 9.5 $600

+ 20$ x 4 for the wheel caps.

Hope this helps and good luck with your wheel selection!

Manaray

Miguel - Hmmm, interesting...I was told by serveral people (HRE, Fikse, Kinesis, and SSR rep, and some others) that CNC portion was the part was the limitation on the designs, not the forging...

Your point about forged 1-piece wheels being more performance oriented than 3-piece and therefore "looks" takes a backseat is a good point...I suppose they would be much more interested in cutting as much weight as possible while keeping the strength as high as possible rather that having it look good...

As far as bending them, granted the lips are also forged but I recently hit a 5" deep pothole (at night) by my house in my friend's car and it pinched (bubbled) a stock tire on a 14" rim and dented the steel...I didn't think you could do that on a 14 rim with a 60 series tire...I'm sure if that was a 20" rim of ANY TYPE, it would have been VERY, VERY ugly!

Either way, for me, the size limitations, the design limitations, and the potential replacement variable keeps me from getting 1-piece forged wheels...

gs4power

Hi Manaray,

What HRE, Fikse and Kinesis told you makes sense. The forging process they practice is relatively simple, granted they consider the machining part the most dificult.

They could even buy the forged aluminum disks in bulk from a large supplier, and machine the wheel centers themselves.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Wow that sounds incredibly light. Two questions:

1) How did the feel of your car change with such light wheels?

2) Is there a pic of your car online somewhere?

gs4power

Hi Bitkahuna,

For a pic, take a look at the thread:

https://www.clublexus.com/vb/showthr...=&threadid=158

You may also find some technical info at

http://www.mackinindustries.com/raysinfo.html

I saved 30 lbs of unsprung weight compared to the stock 17" even with the wider 9.5" rears. The car accelerates and brakes noticeably better. 30 Lbs of unsprung rotational mass equals about 90 -100 lbs of gross mass. (You need about twice the energy to accelerate a rotating mass, plus the energy for the linear acceleration = about three times more energy, the formula is more complicated but you get the picture). Also ride quality improved because the suspension reacts better to road irregularities.

Feel free to send me a message if you want more pics!!

GS4Will

thanks professor miguel, sometimes the site makes me feel like college days again.

anyway, Miguel, in the volk F-0 line, i really like the KUWAGATA model that came out last feburary-2000, rays claim that the wheel is also true forging, one piece. the price quote i got for the wheel is very good( very low $2000 for 18*8+*9). what is your take on this particular wheel?

thanks

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

I really like the F-Zero line and all of Volk's Racing wheels.
Kuwagata was modeled after a sakura flower. I think that wheel looks very nice, but then when I photoshopped it on my GS, it's not so great anymore..... I think the Challenge and Winning looks better on the GS. Daytona speed and Kuwagata looks too weird.


How can I compare the HREs and VOLK racing wheels? Some say that Japanese racing wheels from Volk or Enkei and Work or SSR are really good in terms of quality, design, and weight. Others say that HREs are the best because they're all multi-piece and stuff like that. What are the pros/cons of these two brands?
(They're so different.....)

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Excellent info Miguel, thanks! Some more questions of course.

Couldn't tell from the picture of your car (good choice silver ) are your wheels white or silver?

Did you have to get centering rings for them? I assume you got the +40 offset?

Did you put 235 and 265s on them? I did on my 8.5/9.5s but wish I'd done 245 and 275 now to fill out the wheel well a bit more.

Did you buy them from RAYS?

Anyway, they seem like terrific wheels.

gs4power

Hi gs4will,

HA HA that's funny I always get that

The new KUWAGATAS are awesome! The info I got was way before the Kuwagatas were released, it is likely they're 1 piece forged as you mentioned. You could ask Volk how much do they weigh, if that concerns you. Also, I think this wheel design is very rare and being new, it will take a bit log for the knock-offs to crowd the streets. You'd have pretty exclusive wheels.

BTW, the price they quoted you sounds very good, cheaper than the silver TE37s.

You can't go wrong with the Kuwagatas!

gs4power

Hi Bitkahuna,

Glad you like them. My TE37s are Silver, they also come in white (standard color) and Bronze.

Yes the offset of the TE37 is +40 mm front and back (mine are 8.5" and 9.5" wide respectively). My tires are 235/40 and 265/35.

Actually, the TE37's have a 60 degree conical lug housing design, and a matching conical lug set was included. This lug design is self centering: as you tighten them up in a star pattern, the lugs will force the wheel to sit perfectly centered. The wheels came with a set of centering rims, but i haven't used them since they aren't needed at all.

Here's another pic of my car.

I got the wheels from David at GTAutosports