what is all this upgrade stuff?
04-13-01, 08:00 PM
#1
tower braces, strut braces, calipers, brimen brakes, l tuned suspension, ecu, kn air filter, air intake, and all that other stuff? what is it all and what does each one do specifically? like the pluses and minuses of each?
i have a 99 gs4 and everything is simply stock, what are the best uprgrades and why should I upgrade? all the lowering, exhaust stuff, I don't know anything mechanical about cars. I got the gs4 cause it looks awesome, is really fast, a luxury and its a lexus. now you guys can let me in on what to do "after" you own a gs4 :-)
thanks
i have a 99 gs4 and everything is simply stock, what are the best uprgrades and why should I upgrade? all the lowering, exhaust stuff, I don't know anything mechanical about cars. I got the gs4 cause it looks awesome, is really fast, a luxury and its a lexus. now you guys can let me in on what to do "after" you own a gs4 :-)
thanks
04-14-01, 03:02 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
ok...
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Strut Tower Brace (Front and Rear)-This is a bar that joins the mount point for your shocks. This makes your suspension a "complete box" and improves your handling by quite a bit. The most effective one is the front strut tower bar (STB). The rear STB is nice to have but you won't notice as big of an improvement in handling compared to the front STB.
Sway Bars (Front and Rear) - This is similar in function to the STB above but attaches to the bottom of the car and looks completely different. The GS comes standard with Sway Bars but the TRD (and other aftermarket ones) are more heavy duty.
Calipers and Brakes (Usually, just the front) - This is a brake upgrade to help improve your braking. Some modfications do really nothing to improve your braking (like slotting and drilling your stock rotors won't really do anything), however, other upgrades will DRAMATICALLY improve your braking abilities (like upgrading to a 6 piston brake system with larger rotors and steel braided lines). You can also change out your brake pads even using stock rotors and calipers to obtain more effective braking.
Suspension - L-Tuned is a Lexus "factory" upgrade using a collection of aftermarket parts neatly packaged for your local Lexus Dealer to overcharge you. However, the L-Tuned items don't void your warranty, but their upgrades are rather mild. There are MANY aftermarket suspension parts. Everything is geared to lowering your car which lowers the center of gravity of your car which in turn improves handling. A Height adjustable Coil-Over system is the best way (in my opinion) to lower a car. It allows you to control the amount of lowering and on some system, you can adjust the dampening of the shock so that you can tune your ride "comfort" (from hard to soft).
ECU - There are two different type of ECU's (that you usually upgrade). One is the Steering ECU (GS only) which improves the GS's overall steering (especially at high speeds). The other is a Engine ECU which can be used to improve air/gas mixtures and other parameters. You usually do an ECU upgrade if you plan on doing some serious engine work...but there are also ECU upgrade that go with air filter that will give you a decent performance boost. ECU upgrades tend to be rather costly however.
Air Filters/Air Intake/K&N - K&N is just a name brand for air filters...air filter/intake replaces the factory filter to give you better airflow into your engine. There are kits that simply replace your stock filter and ther are kits where you remove your entire airbox and replace with an exposed fiter and new intake piping. Without the ECU upgrade above, this upgrade doesn't do much.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ok...that was just a brief overview...now for the fun stuff....
"If I had a stock 99 GS400...." - This question can lead you down various paths. You can go very mild and just do a rim upgrade (which many people do). You go the next level and get rims and get the car lowered (I wouldn't do anything less than this)....and of course, you can go all the way and do ALL SORTS of upgrades.
If this was REALLY my GS400, here's a list of what I would do...I'll start with the simple "updates" first and move into the more hardcore things:
1) Upgrade to 2001 Taillights. I think they look a LOT better.
2) Upgrade to 2001 grille. Again, I think it looks a LOT better. The other option would be to do an aftermarket grille but I have yet to find one I REALLY like.
3) Uprade to 2001 chrome shift trim and 2001 gauge cluster trim. Ask 1SICKLEX about this one...
4) Upgrade to 19" or 20" rims. But if you're not a careful driver, you've never owned a car with rims, or you live in a city that looks like Beruit, I would consider getting just 18" rims...ONE VERY IMPORTANT thing is to get ORIGINAL rims. If you plan on buy some cheezeball "knock-offs", don't even bother. Style of rim and finish is up to you. If this were my car, I would do 3 piece forged wheels, machine silver (not painted) centers with a high polish lip. These are in the $4000+ range so it's a pretty serious investment. HRE, Fikse, Kinesis would be my first choice, but if you don't like the styling of these rims, you can look to Lowenhart, Weds, Rays/Volk, Work, and the multitude of other Japanese brands.
5) Get a set of height adjustable coil overs. If you plan on doing rims, you should DEFINITELY lower your car. It looks stupid otherwise. Real stupid. Especially if you get 19" or 20" wheel, w/o lowering your GS will start to look a lot like an RX. For coilovers I recommend H&R, Tein, HKS Kansai, HKS, TOM'S...eh, there are hundreds of brands! You can also take the less expensive route and just get replacement springs and shocks (Eibach, Bilstein, Tokico, etc.)
6) If you're a driving ENTHUSIAST (you take the longer canyon route instead of the faster freeway route), then I would get a STB (Front and rear), upgrade the sway bars (front and rear), and also get a lower chassis brace. For the Front STB, Sways, and Chassis Brace, i would do TRD. For the rear you can get UGO, Cusco, Carbing, and some others. Also get the L-Tuned Steering ECU.
7) Visual mods - I would do a classy body kit consisting of a replacement front bumper, side skirts, and rear bumper. Tail/Spoiler is up to you. AutoCouture, WIN.RACING, Exclusive, Explosion, Wald, etc., etc., ..there are MANY MANY kits for the GS. I would stay away from aggressive kits like Veilside and other that are just way too race-like and aggressive simply because the GS isn't a sports car. It's a Luxury Car that's FAST. BIG DIFFERENCE. The GS is not a Supra TT.
8) Brake Upgrade - It's MUCH more important that you improve your braking ability than your acceleration ability which is why I would do this upgrade before any speed enhancements (the GS400 is already pretty fast). If it were me, I would do the AP Racing 6 piston brake setup...it's in the $4000 range but this will stop you about $100 dollars from the proverbial dime. You can also do lower cost upgrades like the 4 piston Brembo setup, the Supra TT setup, and the Rod Millen setup. But the AP are the ultimate (within reason). Of course, if you're made of cash, you can go for the full F1 style Carbon Fiber disc system that in the $14,000 range....back to reality, you should also do steel braided lines and higher temp brake fluid (like Motul)
9) Now we get into the engine modifications. If you don't want to REALLY void your warrenty, stop right here. If you dont' give a damn, read-on....now this is a WIDE open street. You can do mild (intake, exhaust, ecu) to wild (Stage 4 SuperCharger). For you, I think just adding an exhaust (just to get a more "aggressive" sound out of your engine) would be enough. Maybe a K&N replacement filter because it's not that much money. Don't bother with an air intake system unless you get the ECU to match (around $1000). You don't see much of a performance upgrade and you're dealership will know you messed with the car (the K&N replacement will not void your warrenty and it's not visable unless you open the airbox). But if you want more power, you can go with a SuperCharger or Turbo. I recommend a SuperCharger. It's much more streetable since the boost in power starts at a low RPM whereas Turbo's usualy don't kick in until your in the middle of your RPM clock. And SuperCharger require less maintainance...I could go much deeper into the Turbo vs. SuperCharger wars (lag vs. drag) but I don't think you care.
Conclusion: Before you do anything, I would do some SERIOUS RESEARCH. Don't rush into things. If you're short on cash, don't cheap out and buy crap. Just save up and buy the better product. Do it right...don't half-*** it. Remember, you own a Lexus GS400, not a Dodge Neon. I recommend hanging around ClubLexus and just read a lot of the posts (check out the old posts and everything). If you rush into things, your chances of making a mistake is much greater (as with anything!). There are tons of people on here with various degrees of knowledge and expertise that are willing to help out...I think you'll find ClubLexus to be a valuable resource...
Hope that helped a little...
Strut Tower Brace (Front and Rear)-This is a bar that joins the mount point for your shocks. This makes your suspension a "complete box" and improves your handling by quite a bit. The most effective one is the front strut tower bar (STB). The rear STB is nice to have but you won't notice as big of an improvement in handling compared to the front STB.
Sway Bars (Front and Rear) - This is similar in function to the STB above but attaches to the bottom of the car and looks completely different. The GS comes standard with Sway Bars but the TRD (and other aftermarket ones) are more heavy duty.
Calipers and Brakes (Usually, just the front) - This is a brake upgrade to help improve your braking. Some modfications do really nothing to improve your braking (like slotting and drilling your stock rotors won't really do anything), however, other upgrades will DRAMATICALLY improve your braking abilities (like upgrading to a 6 piston brake system with larger rotors and steel braided lines). You can also change out your brake pads even using stock rotors and calipers to obtain more effective braking.
Suspension - L-Tuned is a Lexus "factory" upgrade using a collection of aftermarket parts neatly packaged for your local Lexus Dealer to overcharge you. However, the L-Tuned items don't void your warranty, but their upgrades are rather mild. There are MANY aftermarket suspension parts. Everything is geared to lowering your car which lowers the center of gravity of your car which in turn improves handling. A Height adjustable Coil-Over system is the best way (in my opinion) to lower a car. It allows you to control the amount of lowering and on some system, you can adjust the dampening of the shock so that you can tune your ride "comfort" (from hard to soft).
ECU - There are two different type of ECU's (that you usually upgrade). One is the Steering ECU (GS only) which improves the GS's overall steering (especially at high speeds). The other is a Engine ECU which can be used to improve air/gas mixtures and other parameters. You usually do an ECU upgrade if you plan on doing some serious engine work...but there are also ECU upgrade that go with air filter that will give you a decent performance boost. ECU upgrades tend to be rather costly however.
Air Filters/Air Intake/K&N - K&N is just a name brand for air filters...air filter/intake replaces the factory filter to give you better airflow into your engine. There are kits that simply replace your stock filter and ther are kits where you remove your entire airbox and replace with an exposed fiter and new intake piping. Without the ECU upgrade above, this upgrade doesn't do much.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ok...that was just a brief overview...now for the fun stuff....
"If I had a stock 99 GS400...." - This question can lead you down various paths. You can go very mild and just do a rim upgrade (which many people do). You go the next level and get rims and get the car lowered (I wouldn't do anything less than this)....and of course, you can go all the way and do ALL SORTS of upgrades.
If this was REALLY my GS400, here's a list of what I would do...I'll start with the simple "updates" first and move into the more hardcore things:
1) Upgrade to 2001 Taillights. I think they look a LOT better.
2) Upgrade to 2001 grille. Again, I think it looks a LOT better. The other option would be to do an aftermarket grille but I have yet to find one I REALLY like.
3) Uprade to 2001 chrome shift trim and 2001 gauge cluster trim. Ask 1SICKLEX about this one...
4) Upgrade to 19" or 20" rims. But if you're not a careful driver, you've never owned a car with rims, or you live in a city that looks like Beruit, I would consider getting just 18" rims...ONE VERY IMPORTANT thing is to get ORIGINAL rims. If you plan on buy some cheezeball "knock-offs", don't even bother. Style of rim and finish is up to you. If this were my car, I would do 3 piece forged wheels, machine silver (not painted) centers with a high polish lip. These are in the $4000+ range so it's a pretty serious investment. HRE, Fikse, Kinesis would be my first choice, but if you don't like the styling of these rims, you can look to Lowenhart, Weds, Rays/Volk, Work, and the multitude of other Japanese brands.
5) Get a set of height adjustable coil overs. If you plan on doing rims, you should DEFINITELY lower your car. It looks stupid otherwise. Real stupid. Especially if you get 19" or 20" wheel, w/o lowering your GS will start to look a lot like an RX. For coilovers I recommend H&R, Tein, HKS Kansai, HKS, TOM'S...eh, there are hundreds of brands! You can also take the less expensive route and just get replacement springs and shocks (Eibach, Bilstein, Tokico, etc.)
6) If you're a driving ENTHUSIAST (you take the longer canyon route instead of the faster freeway route), then I would get a STB (Front and rear), upgrade the sway bars (front and rear), and also get a lower chassis brace. For the Front STB, Sways, and Chassis Brace, i would do TRD. For the rear you can get UGO, Cusco, Carbing, and some others. Also get the L-Tuned Steering ECU.
7) Visual mods - I would do a classy body kit consisting of a replacement front bumper, side skirts, and rear bumper. Tail/Spoiler is up to you. AutoCouture, WIN.RACING, Exclusive, Explosion, Wald, etc., etc., ..there are MANY MANY kits for the GS. I would stay away from aggressive kits like Veilside and other that are just way too race-like and aggressive simply because the GS isn't a sports car. It's a Luxury Car that's FAST. BIG DIFFERENCE. The GS is not a Supra TT.
8) Brake Upgrade - It's MUCH more important that you improve your braking ability than your acceleration ability which is why I would do this upgrade before any speed enhancements (the GS400 is already pretty fast). If it were me, I would do the AP Racing 6 piston brake setup...it's in the $4000 range but this will stop you about $100 dollars from the proverbial dime. You can also do lower cost upgrades like the 4 piston Brembo setup, the Supra TT setup, and the Rod Millen setup. But the AP are the ultimate (within reason). Of course, if you're made of cash, you can go for the full F1 style Carbon Fiber disc system that in the $14,000 range....back to reality, you should also do steel braided lines and higher temp brake fluid (like Motul)
9) Now we get into the engine modifications. If you don't want to REALLY void your warrenty, stop right here. If you dont' give a damn, read-on....now this is a WIDE open street. You can do mild (intake, exhaust, ecu) to wild (Stage 4 SuperCharger). For you, I think just adding an exhaust (just to get a more "aggressive" sound out of your engine) would be enough. Maybe a K&N replacement filter because it's not that much money. Don't bother with an air intake system unless you get the ECU to match (around $1000). You don't see much of a performance upgrade and you're dealership will know you messed with the car (the K&N replacement will not void your warrenty and it's not visable unless you open the airbox). But if you want more power, you can go with a SuperCharger or Turbo. I recommend a SuperCharger. It's much more streetable since the boost in power starts at a low RPM whereas Turbo's usualy don't kick in until your in the middle of your RPM clock. And SuperCharger require less maintainance...I could go much deeper into the Turbo vs. SuperCharger wars (lag vs. drag) but I don't think you care.
Conclusion: Before you do anything, I would do some SERIOUS RESEARCH. Don't rush into things. If you're short on cash, don't cheap out and buy crap. Just save up and buy the better product. Do it right...don't half-*** it. Remember, you own a Lexus GS400, not a Dodge Neon. I recommend hanging around ClubLexus and just read a lot of the posts (check out the old posts and everything). If you rush into things, your chances of making a mistake is much greater (as with anything!). There are tons of people on here with various degrees of knowledge and expertise that are willing to help out...I think you'll find ClubLexus to be a valuable resource...
Hope that helped a little...
04-14-01, 10:03 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
WOW - what a post. Probably scared the cr*p out of nanotech, but it definitely deserves to go in the Q&A section!!!
One comment... you pointed to cosmetic upgrades first, then functional ones... that's debatable.
I'd take the L-Tuned spring/shocks ($500+install) over a grille and light lens change out (maybe $400?) any day.
Depends if your priority is 'show' or 'go' :-)
One comment... you pointed to cosmetic upgrades first, then functional ones... that's debatable.
I'd take the L-Tuned spring/shocks ($500+install) over a grille and light lens change out (maybe $400?) any day.
Depends if your priority is 'show' or 'go' :-)
04-14-01, 10:18 AM
#6
that helped a LOT !
Thanks a lot manaray, everything was well explained without giong into too much detail.
I have a gold w/beige gs4, simply from that color you may be able to tell that I am more into the lexus part of this car than the gs part. I don't want to project a "cool" image of myself with this car, but instead a "classy&fast" image. Therefore, I am not really interested in body kits or rims.
From your list, this is what I am interested in:
1. The 2001 upgrade. What about the steering wheel and the 2001 engine cover, they are both different than the previous models and I like them both, do you recommend doing the steering wheel? Would it void warranty or am I risking safety by not using factory wheel?
2. The height adjustable coil covers. I have 17" factory chrome rims and I live in a very hilly area. My all-stock gs already scrapes from the bottom sometimes. But I am still interested kind of interested, can you give more info about them? What will they do specifically, will it mess with the system computer or anything like that? And will I be able to adjust the comfort level at a touch of a button?
3. I am not really a driving enthusiast, but if I need to be somewhere quick, I want to be able to do that. Would the STB, Sways, and Chassis Brace make my car a safer car? or simply improve handling? can you give some examples of improved handling in real road situations? Also, how much does each of those things cost? And does it void warranty?
4. I want to do a brake upgrade also, but I don't really want to spend $4,000 or so on it. Which of the less expensive brake systems do you recommend or do you not recommend any that are under the $4g range?
5. With the engine, and actually the whole car, I don't want to do anything that would create more sound. I want more power but if I have to sacrifice sound for it then I rather not do it. I have heard that with the exhaust, the current stock one is the quietest, but if I want to upgrade, the l-tuned one is the next quietest? The intake/ecu doesn't sound too good to me (does it create more sound?) since it will void warranty, but I am interested in the K&N replacement air filter. But I have seen in some pictures that there is a round cylinder type air filter but without a box, is this the K&N one and would I be able to cover it with the box or not? And I am definitely not doing supercharger or turbo.
Thanks again for all the information manaray. And anyone can answer these questions, doesn't have to be strictly manaray, I am open to all opinions, suggestions, etc.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
I have a gold w/beige gs4, simply from that color you may be able to tell that I am more into the lexus part of this car than the gs part. I don't want to project a "cool" image of myself with this car, but instead a "classy&fast" image. Therefore, I am not really interested in body kits or rims.
From your list, this is what I am interested in:
1. The 2001 upgrade. What about the steering wheel and the 2001 engine cover, they are both different than the previous models and I like them both, do you recommend doing the steering wheel? Would it void warranty or am I risking safety by not using factory wheel?
2. The height adjustable coil covers. I have 17" factory chrome rims and I live in a very hilly area. My all-stock gs already scrapes from the bottom sometimes. But I am still interested kind of interested, can you give more info about them? What will they do specifically, will it mess with the system computer or anything like that? And will I be able to adjust the comfort level at a touch of a button?
3. I am not really a driving enthusiast, but if I need to be somewhere quick, I want to be able to do that. Would the STB, Sways, and Chassis Brace make my car a safer car? or simply improve handling? can you give some examples of improved handling in real road situations? Also, how much does each of those things cost? And does it void warranty?
4. I want to do a brake upgrade also, but I don't really want to spend $4,000 or so on it. Which of the less expensive brake systems do you recommend or do you not recommend any that are under the $4g range?
5. With the engine, and actually the whole car, I don't want to do anything that would create more sound. I want more power but if I have to sacrifice sound for it then I rather not do it. I have heard that with the exhaust, the current stock one is the quietest, but if I want to upgrade, the l-tuned one is the next quietest? The intake/ecu doesn't sound too good to me (does it create more sound?) since it will void warranty, but I am interested in the K&N replacement air filter. But I have seen in some pictures that there is a round cylinder type air filter but without a box, is this the K&N one and would I be able to cover it with the box or not? And I am definitely not doing supercharger or turbo.
Thanks again for all the information manaray. And anyone can answer these questions, doesn't have to be strictly manaray, I am open to all opinions, suggestions, etc.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
04-14-01, 11:20 AM
#7
some more stuff I have heard about...
what is all this stuff...
1. front lip spoiler
2. trd lsd
3. tc (is that torque converter?)
4. intake filter
5. SRT HFI + ECU
and I am really interested in quad chrome exhaust pipes, they look really good !
1. front lip spoiler
2. trd lsd
3. tc (is that torque converter?)
4. intake filter
5. SRT HFI + ECU
and I am really interested in quad chrome exhaust pipes, they look really good !
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04-14-01, 01:38 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Bit - Oh, I'm with you on the performance first upgrades, I typed that list thinking that the first 6 things on the list would be done in a relatively short amount of time (like a month). If I were to span this project out over several months, I would DEFINITELY do the suspension upgrades (STB, etc.) first and the LAST things I'd do are the body kit and 2001 aesthetic upgrades. It was late, I was tired, my mind wasn't exactly 100% cohesive at the time. I guess steps 1-3 should be put into step 7 (visual mods). The correct order should be something like 6 (STB, braces, etc.), 5 (suspension), 4 (rims), 8 (brakes, and then 7, 1, 2, 3 (visuals)...and then 9 (SuperCharger)...but then again, it all depends on your available budget.
Biggie - yeah, it took a while...like 40 mintues or so...luckily, I type 60-80 wpm...and everything was just off the top of my head...
Front Lip Spoiler - This is a "mini" bodykit in a way. It adds a piece of bodywork to the bottom of the stock front bumper . This piece extends down from the front bumper so your clearence will go down a little bit. This is the mildest of the body kits. It's usually attached by rivits or double stick tape. Improves the looks for the most part (of course, this depends on which kit you get) and you can usually just get away with only the front lip and you can skip the side skirts (that attach to the "rocker panel") and the rear valance (bumper)
TRD LSD - This is a limited slip differential. TRD = Toyota Racing Development. Toyota/Lexus's inhouse go-fast tuner. This keeps your power distribution to the drive wheels (rear wheels in the case of the GS) relatively even. It prevents, for the most part, one wheel stealing all the power do to slippage. Not a cheap upgrade...over $1000 installed. Definitely for the handling performance junkies.
TC - Torque Converter - replaces the factory TC and puts more power to the ground basically. Again, not cheap. Over $1000 for part and install.
Intake Filter - this is the "cone" air filter you see a lot of people doing. However, the "hidden" type is also consider an intake filter.
SRT HFI + ECU - SRT = Swift Racing Technologies (a good brand!), HFI = High Flow Intake, ECU = Electronic Control Unit (aka: Brain, Management, etc.) This the upgrade I was talking about in my previous post. unless you do the full Intake & ECU, you won't notice much of a perfomance difference from stock with just a "intake". For you, I would just do a K&N Filter that replaces your "in-box" factory filter.
As far as quad exhaust tips, any time you add an exhaust, you're going to have a louder car. Some exhaust are pretty quiet but if you like the way your stock ones are (almost silent), you won't like any of ther aftermarket ones....but most are quiet until you get on the accelerator and they they're loud.
I don't think the 2001 engine cover will fit. I'm pretty sure it won't. It's a useless piece anyhow that you rarely see, I would do a strut tower bar instead.
As for the steering wheel, I don't think you'll get the functionality of the steering wheel controls because the electronic hookup isn't the same. You would need some MAJOR rewiring and the 2001 stereo system in order to take advantage of the newer steering wheel. If you just want wood, that's a different story.
As far as coil overs and stuff, if you're already bottoming out in your area, forget it. It'll just get worse if you lower your car or if you add a body kit (even a front lip). The coil overs are NOT adjustable via a button. You have either either reach through your wheels (if you have wide spokes and a small brake disc), reach around the wheel, or take the wheels off to adjust the height. There are two rings (one is for adjustment and the other is for locking) and you have adjust each shock. It's not something you want to do before you go to work everyday. You usually find a good setting and leave it....you would only change it if you get bigger or smaller wheels or you're bottoming out too often or something like that. Also, there are no computers involved. All mechanical.
Brake system - if you plan on keeping the stock wheels, you can forget any type of major brake upgrade. it just won't fit. I would just change the pads to some better pads. You can't fit a larger disc in there and aftermarket factory size discs don't do ****. Slotted/drilled doesn't really do anything in a stock system. Better brake pads are your best bet. Also, if you buy aftermarket rims, some do not support aftermarket brake systems. If you do plan on upgrading you wheels to larger wheels (18" or larger), I would do the Brembo package which is in the $2300 range (I believe)...it's a larger disc (12.5" or something) and it's a 4 piston caliper. Add some steel braided lines, and you're good to go. This is a brake upgrade you'll definitely notice!
As for as STB's, Sways, etc. go, all of them will definitely make your car safer because your car will handle better. The Front TRD STB is in the $220 range. The L-Tuned Steering ECU is like $125. The Sways are in the $500 range, the chassis brace is like $170 or something. These will not usually void your warranty. As far as examples, it's hard to explain. You just have to feel it. It basically makes your car a better handling car. Turns are more precise, wobbling at high speeds in turns goes down dramically, body sway goes down, etc., etc...you just have to feel it. Check with Steve @ Carson Toyota (SupraTRD). He'll get you all the TRD stuff you need and he gives great prices (plus he's a nice guy!)
Ok...I'm done for now...hopefully, I've answered all the questions you've asked...anything else, just post.
Biggie - yeah, it took a while...like 40 mintues or so...luckily, I type 60-80 wpm...and everything was just off the top of my head...
Front Lip Spoiler - This is a "mini" bodykit in a way. It adds a piece of bodywork to the bottom of the stock front bumper . This piece extends down from the front bumper so your clearence will go down a little bit. This is the mildest of the body kits. It's usually attached by rivits or double stick tape. Improves the looks for the most part (of course, this depends on which kit you get) and you can usually just get away with only the front lip and you can skip the side skirts (that attach to the "rocker panel") and the rear valance (bumper)
TRD LSD - This is a limited slip differential. TRD = Toyota Racing Development. Toyota/Lexus's inhouse go-fast tuner. This keeps your power distribution to the drive wheels (rear wheels in the case of the GS) relatively even. It prevents, for the most part, one wheel stealing all the power do to slippage. Not a cheap upgrade...over $1000 installed. Definitely for the handling performance junkies.
TC - Torque Converter - replaces the factory TC and puts more power to the ground basically. Again, not cheap. Over $1000 for part and install.
Intake Filter - this is the "cone" air filter you see a lot of people doing. However, the "hidden" type is also consider an intake filter.
SRT HFI + ECU - SRT = Swift Racing Technologies (a good brand!), HFI = High Flow Intake, ECU = Electronic Control Unit (aka: Brain, Management, etc.) This the upgrade I was talking about in my previous post. unless you do the full Intake & ECU, you won't notice much of a perfomance difference from stock with just a "intake". For you, I would just do a K&N Filter that replaces your "in-box" factory filter.
As far as quad exhaust tips, any time you add an exhaust, you're going to have a louder car. Some exhaust are pretty quiet but if you like the way your stock ones are (almost silent), you won't like any of ther aftermarket ones....but most are quiet until you get on the accelerator and they they're loud.
I don't think the 2001 engine cover will fit. I'm pretty sure it won't. It's a useless piece anyhow that you rarely see, I would do a strut tower bar instead.
As for the steering wheel, I don't think you'll get the functionality of the steering wheel controls because the electronic hookup isn't the same. You would need some MAJOR rewiring and the 2001 stereo system in order to take advantage of the newer steering wheel. If you just want wood, that's a different story.
As far as coil overs and stuff, if you're already bottoming out in your area, forget it. It'll just get worse if you lower your car or if you add a body kit (even a front lip). The coil overs are NOT adjustable via a button. You have either either reach through your wheels (if you have wide spokes and a small brake disc), reach around the wheel, or take the wheels off to adjust the height. There are two rings (one is for adjustment and the other is for locking) and you have adjust each shock. It's not something you want to do before you go to work everyday. You usually find a good setting and leave it....you would only change it if you get bigger or smaller wheels or you're bottoming out too often or something like that. Also, there are no computers involved. All mechanical.
Brake system - if you plan on keeping the stock wheels, you can forget any type of major brake upgrade. it just won't fit. I would just change the pads to some better pads. You can't fit a larger disc in there and aftermarket factory size discs don't do ****. Slotted/drilled doesn't really do anything in a stock system. Better brake pads are your best bet. Also, if you buy aftermarket rims, some do not support aftermarket brake systems. If you do plan on upgrading you wheels to larger wheels (18" or larger), I would do the Brembo package which is in the $2300 range (I believe)...it's a larger disc (12.5" or something) and it's a 4 piston caliper. Add some steel braided lines, and you're good to go. This is a brake upgrade you'll definitely notice!
As for as STB's, Sways, etc. go, all of them will definitely make your car safer because your car will handle better. The Front TRD STB is in the $220 range. The L-Tuned Steering ECU is like $125. The Sways are in the $500 range, the chassis brace is like $170 or something. These will not usually void your warranty. As far as examples, it's hard to explain. You just have to feel it. It basically makes your car a better handling car. Turns are more precise, wobbling at high speeds in turns goes down dramically, body sway goes down, etc., etc...you just have to feel it. Check with Steve @ Carson Toyota (SupraTRD). He'll get you all the TRD stuff you need and he gives great prices (plus he's a nice guy!)
Ok...I'm done for now...hopefully, I've answered all the questions you've asked...anything else, just post.
Last edited by Manaray; 04-15-01 at 03:51 AM.
04-14-01, 01:51 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
i was going to...
NA,
i was going to shed some light , but i type kind of slow. but the important thing is that one of our mod guru, manaray, summed up all the essence of our site for the past year, lucky you. some of us had to read through them on a nightly basis to such detailed info.
basically, assess your own budget, read through the site and thend ecide which mod youwould like to see on your gs and go from there. i like all the break manaray suggested, but i would probably go for the supar TT set up, or even get the trd pads first, and if i like them, i would be satisfied. if not, just go back to your thinktank, wallet, and this site.
i was going to shed some light , but i type kind of slow. but the important thing is that one of our mod guru, manaray, summed up all the essence of our site for the past year, lucky you. some of us had to read through them on a nightly basis to such detailed info.
basically, assess your own budget, read through the site and thend ecide which mod youwould like to see on your gs and go from there. i like all the break manaray suggested, but i would probably go for the supar TT set up, or even get the trd pads first, and if i like them, i would be satisfied. if not, just go back to your thinktank, wallet, and this site.
04-14-01, 02:57 PM
#10
Thanks again for a quick and very informative reply.
These are the upgrades that sound good to me and I would like to know more about them:
1. TRD LSD, what are pros/cons? what is it going to be really helpfull in? does it make the car safer?
2. Torque Converter, it gives power to ground, what does that mean? how will it benefit me? any cons?
3. I think I am going to get the K&N Air Filter for the engine, it seems like the only upgrade I can do to the engine.
4. Which exhausts are the quietest and how much power do they add? any other benefits? any other cons besides noise? how much do they cost?
5. I like the wood and the airbag cover with the chrome lexus logo, any tips on how to aquire that look or the actual one? Is there an aftermarket wood trim that you can wrap around the wheel? I asked about the front airbag cover and it only comes with the airbag not without and costs $600+, any cheaper and/or safer alternative?
6. Which "better" brake pads do you recommend?
7. I think I am going to go ahead and do all of the handling bars first, which brand do you recommend for the rear stb? what are the pluses/minuses and cost of the most popular brands for the rear stb?
This club is extremely helpful ! I think that lexus should give out a clublexus welcome kit for everyone who buys a lexus at their own expense ! :-)
These are the upgrades that sound good to me and I would like to know more about them:
1. TRD LSD, what are pros/cons? what is it going to be really helpfull in? does it make the car safer?
2. Torque Converter, it gives power to ground, what does that mean? how will it benefit me? any cons?
3. I think I am going to get the K&N Air Filter for the engine, it seems like the only upgrade I can do to the engine.
4. Which exhausts are the quietest and how much power do they add? any other benefits? any other cons besides noise? how much do they cost?
5. I like the wood and the airbag cover with the chrome lexus logo, any tips on how to aquire that look or the actual one? Is there an aftermarket wood trim that you can wrap around the wheel? I asked about the front airbag cover and it only comes with the airbag not without and costs $600+, any cheaper and/or safer alternative?
6. Which "better" brake pads do you recommend?
7. I think I am going to go ahead and do all of the handling bars first, which brand do you recommend for the rear stb? what are the pluses/minuses and cost of the most popular brands for the rear stb?
This club is extremely helpful ! I think that lexus should give out a clublexus welcome kit for everyone who buys a lexus at their own expense ! :-)
04-14-01, 04:40 PM
#11
Lead Lap
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Va Beach
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no offense manaray but this....
This club is extremely helpful ! I think that lexus should give out a clublexus welcome kit for everyone who buys a lexus at their own expense ! :-)
is the most useful knowledge shed on this sight, almost everything I've wanted to know is here....
"this will stop you about $100 dollars from the proverbial dime."
did you bite this from something???
I would kill or die to be able to type 60-80 wpm...I am a professional "pecker"...no pun intended
This club is extremely helpful ! I think that lexus should give out a clublexus welcome kit for everyone who buys a lexus at their own expense ! :-)
is the most useful knowledge shed on this sight, almost everything I've wanted to know is here....
"this will stop you about $100 dollars from the proverbial dime."
did you bite this from something???
I would kill or die to be able to type 60-80 wpm...I am a professional "pecker"...no pun intended
Last edited by zushwa; 04-14-01 at 05:34 PM.
04-15-01, 03:47 AM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Zushwa - Actually, I though that one up as I was typing my post...
As far as typing, I learned how to type when I was in the 6th grade because of my computer. My mom is pretty good typist (and 10 "keyer") and kinda gave me some basic lessons on typing (like where the home keys are, etc.)...when I was in high school, I took a typing class (requirement) and there I learned the "finer points" of typing...when I entered the class, on the first day, the teacher wanted to time everyone so that he could section off people in beginner, intermediate, and expert levels (that way he could give out different assignments that would improve our typing at our level)...at any rate, I was doing 40 WPM...by the time I was done with the class, I was doing 50 WPM...that was years ago, with as much typing as I do, I've picked up the pace a little bit....I just recently took a few typing "test" just to see what my WPM was...I was scoring 60 to 80 WPM depending on the test.
Nanotech:
1) TRD LSD - Unless you're a serious performance driver, you won't notice. LSD's help corner accelerations so if you're a canyon carver, the LSD is a bonus...
2) TC - TC's get the power (torque) from your motor to your wheels more effectively so your "driveline loss" is reduced...you'll improve your 0-60 and 1/4 mile time.
3) K&N - Good choice...you might even get some better gas mileage...
4) I haven't heard all the exhausts for the GS, but I would imaged that the L-Tuned one is the quietest...2-5HP is pretty much the max...don't even bother yourself with those numbers...it's more about creating noise than anything else...I've had an aftermarket exhaust on every car and motorcycle (where it makes more of a power difference) I've ever owned.
5) Wood Steering wheel - Forget about the factory Lexus ones...for the 2001 GS, it's like $2500 or so. There is a company in Southern California called William Rau that does awesome woodwork. http://www.rau-autowood.com/gs400.htm). Now this isn't cheap (over $1000 I believe) but he is EXCELLENT. And you can do the wood portion of the wheel in various ways...check out the other steering wheels he's done. Hell, he can do alternating strips of wood and leather if you want! (that would be ugly, but original! )
6) Brake Pads - TRD's Metallics or Stillen's Metal Matrix (I'm not sure if they make it for the GS, but I had them on another car and they worked pretty good)
7) Rear STB - Ukyo Katayama UGO and Cusco both make carbon fiber rears (lightweight and strong) but then again, even an alloy/aluminum one won't add much weight and they're more than strong enough...prices range from $200-$500. The only concern is that you have to cut out two small holes on the trunk lining (one on each side) so that the bar can be attached to the mount points. No big deal, I've done in other cars (just not on a GS...yet, I'm waiting for the part the arrive from Japan, I got the Ukyo Katayama UGO Carbon Fiber bar)...when I do mine, I'll take some digital pictures and make a little "how-to".
Ok, it's late, time to take my nap ...
As far as typing, I learned how to type when I was in the 6th grade because of my computer. My mom is pretty good typist (and 10 "keyer") and kinda gave me some basic lessons on typing (like where the home keys are, etc.)...when I was in high school, I took a typing class (requirement) and there I learned the "finer points" of typing...when I entered the class, on the first day, the teacher wanted to time everyone so that he could section off people in beginner, intermediate, and expert levels (that way he could give out different assignments that would improve our typing at our level)...at any rate, I was doing 40 WPM...by the time I was done with the class, I was doing 50 WPM...that was years ago, with as much typing as I do, I've picked up the pace a little bit....I just recently took a few typing "test" just to see what my WPM was...I was scoring 60 to 80 WPM depending on the test.
Nanotech:
1) TRD LSD - Unless you're a serious performance driver, you won't notice. LSD's help corner accelerations so if you're a canyon carver, the LSD is a bonus...
2) TC - TC's get the power (torque) from your motor to your wheels more effectively so your "driveline loss" is reduced...you'll improve your 0-60 and 1/4 mile time.
3) K&N - Good choice...you might even get some better gas mileage...
4) I haven't heard all the exhausts for the GS, but I would imaged that the L-Tuned one is the quietest...2-5HP is pretty much the max...don't even bother yourself with those numbers...it's more about creating noise than anything else...I've had an aftermarket exhaust on every car and motorcycle (where it makes more of a power difference) I've ever owned.
5) Wood Steering wheel - Forget about the factory Lexus ones...for the 2001 GS, it's like $2500 or so. There is a company in Southern California called William Rau that does awesome woodwork. http://www.rau-autowood.com/gs400.htm). Now this isn't cheap (over $1000 I believe) but he is EXCELLENT. And you can do the wood portion of the wheel in various ways...check out the other steering wheels he's done. Hell, he can do alternating strips of wood and leather if you want! (that would be ugly, but original!
)6) Brake Pads - TRD's Metallics or Stillen's Metal Matrix (I'm not sure if they make it for the GS, but I had them on another car and they worked pretty good)
7) Rear STB - Ukyo Katayama UGO and Cusco both make carbon fiber rears (lightweight and strong) but then again, even an alloy/aluminum one won't add much weight and they're more than strong enough...prices range from $200-$500. The only concern is that you have to cut out two small holes on the trunk lining (one on each side) so that the bar can be attached to the mount points. No big deal, I've done in other cars (just not on a GS...yet, I'm waiting for the part the arrive from Japan, I got the Ukyo Katayama UGO Carbon Fiber bar)...when I do mine, I'll take some digital pictures and make a little "how-to".
Ok, it's late, time to take my nap ...
04-15-01, 11:52 AM
#13
First about the typing part...for zushwa...
I remember in my 9th grade typing class, near the end, I myself had gotten up to a max of around 55wpm and I wasn't the fastest either, there was one who almost reached 60 ! And at that time, computers weren't as popular as they are now. Now with the net, forums, chat rooms, every teacher requiring typed papers, and these days I even take notes and do my schedule and contacts on computer my speed has increased a lot. And I can say that even my speed is around 70 wpm.
Now back to the gs talk:
1. I am going to forget about an exhaust, I guess I will simply dip the ends of my pipes in chrome to make them look good and that's it.
2. I am going to go ahead and get the KN filter, do you know where I can get it from?
3. I think I will go with the TRD Metallic pads for the brakes, is there a specific type? What I am asking is that when I go to order a set, what do I tell Steve? Simply that I want TRD Metallic brake pads for my gs? And who do you recommend do an install? My dad does a lot of mechanical things in his spare time, do you think he could do it? Or should I just go to a real mechanic? Or should I do it only at a lexus dealership? How much do you think installation should cost? (just an estimate so that I know they aren't ripping me off)
4. You recommended TRD for all the braces and bars except the rear stb, which you recommend should be the Ukyo Katayama UGO Carbon Fiber right? How much does this specific bar cost and how much would the whole bars and braces handling package cost? Again, is install easy or should a shop do it?
5. After looking at the wood steering wheels at that site and again at a 01 GS, I don't really think I like it. I think what really interests me is the airbag cover with chrome lexus symbol, that looks sweet ! Do you know anything about where I could get that?
6. I am still quite interested in the TRD LSD and the TC, who is the TC made by, is it TRD also? Would a LSD or TC void my warranty? How much do you think installation for a LSD would cost? For a TC? Where could I get more information about these two upgrades?
Finally, I would like to know more about your car, is it a gs4 also? What color, upgrades, future upgrades? Any pics?
Thanks
I remember in my 9th grade typing class, near the end, I myself had gotten up to a max of around 55wpm and I wasn't the fastest either, there was one who almost reached 60 ! And at that time, computers weren't as popular as they are now. Now with the net, forums, chat rooms, every teacher requiring typed papers, and these days I even take notes and do my schedule and contacts on computer my speed has increased a lot. And I can say that even my speed is around 70 wpm.
Now back to the gs talk:
1. I am going to forget about an exhaust, I guess I will simply dip the ends of my pipes in chrome to make them look good and that's it.
2. I am going to go ahead and get the KN filter, do you know where I can get it from?
3. I think I will go with the TRD Metallic pads for the brakes, is there a specific type? What I am asking is that when I go to order a set, what do I tell Steve? Simply that I want TRD Metallic brake pads for my gs? And who do you recommend do an install? My dad does a lot of mechanical things in his spare time, do you think he could do it? Or should I just go to a real mechanic? Or should I do it only at a lexus dealership? How much do you think installation should cost? (just an estimate so that I know they aren't ripping me off)
4. You recommended TRD for all the braces and bars except the rear stb, which you recommend should be the Ukyo Katayama UGO Carbon Fiber right? How much does this specific bar cost and how much would the whole bars and braces handling package cost? Again, is install easy or should a shop do it?
5. After looking at the wood steering wheels at that site and again at a 01 GS, I don't really think I like it. I think what really interests me is the airbag cover with chrome lexus symbol, that looks sweet ! Do you know anything about where I could get that?
6. I am still quite interested in the TRD LSD and the TC, who is the TC made by, is it TRD also? Would a LSD or TC void my warranty? How much do you think installation for a LSD would cost? For a TC? Where could I get more information about these two upgrades?
Finally, I would like to know more about your car, is it a gs4 also? What color, upgrades, future upgrades? Any pics?
Thanks
04-16-01, 05:35 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
1) Not a bad idea, but the GS's tips are already chromed or polished I believe (at least it is on mine)
2) You can get the filter from Steve@Carson Toyota (who's currently out due to surgury...)
3) Yes, ask Steve, he'll help you out. Changing out brake pads can be done by anyone who's done it before...it's not hard, but personally, I'd rather just pay someone to do it. You can even have it done at a Toyota dealership...it's less expensive!
4) I think the UGO rear STB is like $500 or something...but I can't remember for sure...again, ask Steve...he can give you all the prices...the whole package should be about $1300-$1400 or so plus install (Front STB, Sways, Lower Chassis, rear STB)...again, ask Steve, he'll give you exact prices.
5) As far as I know, you can't just add that chrome logo. And don't take one from the trunk or hood and double stick it on the steering wheel (I see guys in Civic's do this all the time)...when the airbag goes off, it'll fly off and shoot through your head...making your airbag a moot point.
6) TC - Precision Industries makes it (What Swift Racing sells). RMM also has one but I'm not sure who makes them (I've heard conflicting reports) If something happens to your drivetrain and you take it in for warranty, they take the tranny apart and find a aftermarket (even TRD) LSD or TC, they will most likely void your warranty...but it's really up to the dealership...and your lawyer. LSD install is costly...around 5 hours of labor...shops charge $50-$85/hr. for labor...for the TC should be less than the LSD.
A far as my car, I'll post it's specs when it's complete. There are few issues that I'm dealing with that will affect it's final outcome...
2) You can get the filter from Steve@Carson Toyota (who's currently out due to surgury...)
3) Yes, ask Steve, he'll help you out. Changing out brake pads can be done by anyone who's done it before...it's not hard, but personally, I'd rather just pay someone to do it. You can even have it done at a Toyota dealership...it's less expensive!
4) I think the UGO rear STB is like $500 or something...but I can't remember for sure...again, ask Steve...he can give you all the prices...the whole package should be about $1300-$1400 or so plus install (Front STB, Sways, Lower Chassis, rear STB)...again, ask Steve, he'll give you exact prices.
5) As far as I know, you can't just add that chrome logo. And don't take one from the trunk or hood and double stick it on the steering wheel (I see guys in Civic's do this all the time)...when the airbag goes off, it'll fly off and shoot through your head...making your airbag a moot point.
6) TC - Precision Industries makes it (What Swift Racing sells). RMM also has one but I'm not sure who makes them (I've heard conflicting reports) If something happens to your drivetrain and you take it in for warranty, they take the tranny apart and find a aftermarket (even TRD) LSD or TC, they will most likely void your warranty...but it's really up to the dealership...and your lawyer. LSD install is costly...around 5 hours of labor...shops charge $50-$85/hr. for labor...for the TC should be less than the LSD.
A far as my car, I'll post it's specs when it's complete. There are few issues that I'm dealing with that will affect it's final outcome...
04-16-01, 06:56 PM
#15
1. I think the GS's tips are just polished, definitely not chromed. I also saw some aftermarket tips, do you think I could cut out these stock tips and weld on aftermarket tips? I found some that are dual pipe (dual on each side making it quad for the whole car) and they are chrome too. Do any of you recommend replacing stock with those? Do any of you know a good exhuast tip maker?
2. With the brake pads I think I will have it done at toyota. Will they ever complain about me putting in the TRD pads instead of stock? For example voiding warranty, etc?
3. What does STB stand for? I talked to some guy at Carson Toyota who is supposed to be covering for Steve, and he didn't know what STB was, he thought it was the sway bars and he simply gave me prices on the front ($292) & rear ($252) sways, the lower chassis brace ($170), and the L-Tuned steering ecu ($125). $500 for the UGO STB rear and the total already comes out to $1339 without the front TRD STB and without installation, does that sound right? Also, I heard that I will have to drill holes in my trunk and that's where the rear STB would connect, is that right? I need to put a desktop computer over there in the rear which might conflict with that bar, and that's not counting the sound system my brother is trying to persuade me to put in there. Someone even said that the rear bar doesn't make a big difference, I think his screename was something like biggie123 or something, so is that true?
4. I am definitely not going to simply stick a logo on there for that very reason, the airbag would almost kill the driver that way. I have been wondering how even lexus put a symbol there without conflicting any safety standards, but I am sure they know what they are doing. What I actually want is the whole airbag cover, because it isn't just the symbol that I like but also the circular part surrounding the symbol (i have seen that in many 01 toyota/lexus). I need to ask Steve about that I guess.
5. Last night I spent a lot of time in the clublexus forum trying to find stuff about the TC and LSD. It looks kinda risky to install something like that in there, not only might it void warranty, but I guess I will also be loosing some of the lexus reliability. From what I understand the TC will improve the 0 to 60 times, which means improved acceleration, and I like that, but what cons (besides voiding warranty) does it have? Will it lower my gas mileage? Will it wear out any of my car faster (tires, brakes, engine, etc)? Does anyone have the numbers on the 0 to 60 rating of a gs4 with the TC?
6. What exactly will the LSD do? Will it improve 0 to 60 times or will it improve cornering? And which kind of cornering will it improve? I mean I almost never race, I mainly only like acceleration, I don't turn corners really fast or anything like that, so I am not sure if I should actually go for the LSD. But I think it might make the car safer because of improved traction during rain/snow, am I right? Do you know of a website or a person that could get into detail about the LSD on exactly what it does and all of its pros/cons?
Thanks
2. With the brake pads I think I will have it done at toyota. Will they ever complain about me putting in the TRD pads instead of stock? For example voiding warranty, etc?
3. What does STB stand for? I talked to some guy at Carson Toyota who is supposed to be covering for Steve, and he didn't know what STB was, he thought it was the sway bars and he simply gave me prices on the front ($292) & rear ($252) sways, the lower chassis brace ($170), and the L-Tuned steering ecu ($125). $500 for the UGO STB rear and the total already comes out to $1339 without the front TRD STB and without installation, does that sound right? Also, I heard that I will have to drill holes in my trunk and that's where the rear STB would connect, is that right? I need to put a desktop computer over there in the rear which might conflict with that bar, and that's not counting the sound system my brother is trying to persuade me to put in there. Someone even said that the rear bar doesn't make a big difference, I think his screename was something like biggie123 or something, so is that true?
4. I am definitely not going to simply stick a logo on there for that very reason, the airbag would almost kill the driver that way. I have been wondering how even lexus put a symbol there without conflicting any safety standards, but I am sure they know what they are doing. What I actually want is the whole airbag cover, because it isn't just the symbol that I like but also the circular part surrounding the symbol (i have seen that in many 01 toyota/lexus). I need to ask Steve about that I guess.
5. Last night I spent a lot of time in the clublexus forum trying to find stuff about the TC and LSD. It looks kinda risky to install something like that in there, not only might it void warranty, but I guess I will also be loosing some of the lexus reliability. From what I understand the TC will improve the 0 to 60 times, which means improved acceleration, and I like that, but what cons (besides voiding warranty) does it have? Will it lower my gas mileage? Will it wear out any of my car faster (tires, brakes, engine, etc)? Does anyone have the numbers on the 0 to 60 rating of a gs4 with the TC?
6. What exactly will the LSD do? Will it improve 0 to 60 times or will it improve cornering? And which kind of cornering will it improve? I mean I almost never race, I mainly only like acceleration, I don't turn corners really fast or anything like that, so I am not sure if I should actually go for the LSD. But I think it might make the car safer because of improved traction during rain/snow, am I right? Do you know of a website or a person that could get into detail about the LSD on exactly what it does and all of its pros/cons?
Thanks