New Torque Converter installed!!
10-08-04, 12:48 AM
#18
Originally posted by DrewGS4
Another happy TC owner. You will love it......no lags at all in the shifts. I had my TC on for about 2 months now. It is the single best mod I have done and no regrets here except that I should have had it installed earlier.
I am having a very tough time trying to keep the tires from smoking. It takes a great deal of skill to launch the car in such a way as not to loose crucial seconds to wheels spin. Like DaveGS4 says it requires a lot of practice. I have been been able to get 0-60mph on my G-timer to be 5.6-5.7 seconds on a good launch and 5.5 on a exceptional launch. If I smoke the tires to much my times are 6.0-6.1 seconds. But the car most definitely feels faster in every gear.
I thought I could get away with not getting a LSD. I have since changed my position on that and looking to install a 3.76 LSD supra rear to help me eliminate the spin. Talked to hameed, bitukana and a few other members and everyone has given me the thumbs up on this as a must mod.
The problem is that these MUST mods cost MUCH money $$$
Henry, have you installed both the TC and 3.76 LSD? Not many members running this exact setup except for Bitukana, RMMGS4, and JacobT. Any other members running these exact 2 mods?
Another happy TC owner. You will love it......no lags at all in the shifts. I had my TC on for about 2 months now. It is the single best mod I have done and no regrets here except that I should have had it installed earlier.
I am having a very tough time trying to keep the tires from smoking. It takes a great deal of skill to launch the car in such a way as not to loose crucial seconds to wheels spin. Like DaveGS4 says it requires a lot of practice. I have been been able to get 0-60mph on my G-timer to be 5.6-5.7 seconds on a good launch and 5.5 on a exceptional launch. If I smoke the tires to much my times are 6.0-6.1 seconds. But the car most definitely feels faster in every gear.
I thought I could get away with not getting a LSD. I have since changed my position on that and looking to install a 3.76 LSD supra rear to help me eliminate the spin. Talked to hameed, bitukana and a few other members and everyone has given me the thumbs up on this as a must mod.
The problem is that these MUST mods cost MUCH money $$$
Henry, have you installed both the TC and 3.76 LSD? Not many members running this exact setup except for Bitukana, RMMGS4, and JacobT. Any other members running these exact 2 mods?
it will probably go head to head with your tc mod!and even more, let's just try to make a good turn with the lsd, and see what REAL turn is
oh and yes, i am running tc 2800 stall with 3,76 supra lsd. feel the power
10-08-04, 12:50 AM
#19
Originally posted by FutureGS400
Drew-you're gonna feel the same way about the 3.76 LSD mod that you do about the TC! After I did mine, I was amazed at the difference. I can only imagine once I get my TC done too
Yeah, Henry is running both the TC and LSD-I'll be joining the club any day now...
Drew-you're gonna feel the same way about the 3.76 LSD mod that you do about the TC! After I did mine, I was amazed at the difference. I can only imagine once I get my TC done too
Yeah, Henry is running both the TC and LSD-I'll be joining the club any day now...
10-08-04, 12:52 AM
#20
Originally posted by DrewGS4
Future, I been out of the loop this past month because of the birth of my new baby daughter. Did you and Henry do a writeup on the 3.76 LSD? If so please send or post me the link.
Also, on average on how much will labor cost be to install the LSD?
Future, I been out of the loop this past month because of the birth of my new baby daughter. Did you and Henry do a writeup on the 3.76 LSD? If so please send or post me the link.
Also, on average on how much will labor cost be to install the LSD?
i didn't do a write up on the lsd and the tc. i didn't tell anyone about my install untill now, kept quiet for the whole EOS meet. but yes, if i get the time i will post up my review and feeling about the tc and the lsd. the "problem" was that i put them on together, so it's hard for me to just review them separately
10-08-04, 06:45 AM
#21
EV ftw!!!
Congrats on the install!! 
Question regarding your statement about how it improves your acceleration when you are in 5th gear. I don't see how this is possible considering the fact that all the TC does is raise your stall speed from 1800 to 2800 rpm. This just helps your launch from a stop.
Once you are rolling how can the higher stall speed affect your acceleration when you hit the gas at speed and the car downshifts from 5th to 4th? That does not make any sense to me...............
Question regarding your statement about how it improves your acceleration when you are in 5th gear. I don't see how this is possible considering the fact that all the TC does is raise your stall speed from 1800 to 2800 rpm. This just helps your launch from a stop.
Once you are rolling how can the higher stall speed affect your acceleration when you hit the gas at speed and the car downshifts from 5th to 4th? That does not make any sense to me...............
10-08-04, 06:55 AM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've wondered the same thing, but I've read several posts where people say their car shifts better with the TC mod. Maybe someone at Precision Industries could explain why?
10-08-04, 07:55 AM
#23
The downshift happens when tranny slippage was detected. The slippage came from the different rpm between the flywheel and the tranmission. When you cruise at highway speed, if you pushdown, the stock TC suddenly jumps to 18k rpm. This may not be enough slippage for the tranny ECU to downship but with Dragon TC, it would jump to 28k rpm immediately this will definitely make the downshift happened right away.
Hope I made the situation clear
Hope I made the situation clear
10-08-04, 08:23 AM
#24
JacobT, that is my thought on the matter exactly!
Personally, I only have noticed the 5-4 downshift improvement. I have NOT noticed (yet?) any improvement with any other shifting at this point. My theory is exactly as JacobT mentions. When I depress on the accelerator to pass someone, I now have to press LESS than before to get it to downshift. Seems to me that this is because of the FLUID PRESSURE/vacuum readings. (low rpm and heavy throttle vs (now) higher rpm's and less throttle) Obviously, the more you are in the throttle, the less vacuum you will have.
Personally, I only have noticed the 5-4 downshift improvement. I have NOT noticed (yet?) any improvement with any other shifting at this point. My theory is exactly as JacobT mentions. When I depress on the accelerator to pass someone, I now have to press LESS than before to get it to downshift. Seems to me that this is because of the FLUID PRESSURE/vacuum readings. (low rpm and heavy throttle vs (now) higher rpm's and less throttle) Obviously, the more you are in the throttle, the less vacuum you will have.
10-08-04, 08:28 AM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, not really...
With all due respect, that explanation doesn't work for me at all. The different stall speed should not really affect shifting performance at cruising speed IMO. I'm certainly no expert regarding torque converters, but I have a decent understanding of them from doing a lot of research on the topic and I have to disagree with this explanation. (Of course, as always, I could be completely wrong )
Also, I just got off the phone with Precision Industries and spoke to a technical support person about this question. They confirmed that the shifting of the trans should not be affected (even in a positive way) by the Dragon TC with the higher stall speed. A good understanding of stall speed and torque converters will show why this is true.
~ Here is some good basic info on how TCs work for anyone interested:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter1.htm
~ Also, Precision Industries own website has some good info here:
http://www.converter.com/
Why some people have reported "better" shifting performance (i.e. quicker downshifting etc.) is unclear. Can't argue with success I suppose; I'll find out first hand when I install mine-very soon I hope!
With all due respect, that explanation doesn't work for me at all. The different stall speed should not really affect shifting performance at cruising speed IMO. I'm certainly no expert regarding torque converters, but I have a decent understanding of them from doing a lot of research on the topic and I have to disagree with this explanation. (Of course, as always, I could be completely wrong
)Also, I just got off the phone with Precision Industries and spoke to a technical support person about this question. They confirmed that the shifting of the trans should not be affected (even in a positive way) by the Dragon TC with the higher stall speed. A good understanding of stall speed and torque converters will show why this is true.
~ Here is some good basic info on how TCs work for anyone interested:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter1.htm
~ Also, Precision Industries own website has some good info here:
http://www.converter.com/
Why some people have reported "better" shifting performance (i.e. quicker downshifting etc.) is unclear. Can't argue with success I suppose; I'll find out first hand when I install mine-very soon I hope!
10-08-04, 10:16 AM
#26
that's cool.
as long as we're clear on the difference between a quicker/smoother 5-4 downshift and "shifting" which others has mentioned, then all is good.
I expect absolutely no difference in "shifting" from a TC..... new fluid perhaps, but not the TC.
My background in racing is biased in that "shifting" is usually in regards to the actual firmness or actuaction of the shift itself, not the precursor to it which will all ways be vacuum and line pressure related. So, when I read of others "improved shifting",...I too am a bit confused. I tried to steer my description differently than that. Perhaps I was unclear.
EDIT:
Re-reading Jacobs note, I probably should state that using "tranny slippage" is probably misleading. I'm sure you mean torque converter slippage which is, in essence directly related to engine speed (RPM) and the pressure inside of the TC. These TC's take more engine rpm before sending power to the rear wheels because of the increased angle of the blades/fins inside the TC. Imagine a standard fan blowing into another fan. The other fan will start to spin. Same for a TC but all is incased and filled with fluid.
as long as we're clear on the difference between a quicker/smoother 5-4 downshift and "shifting" which others has mentioned, then all is good.
I expect absolutely no difference in "shifting" from a TC..... new fluid perhaps, but not the TC.
My background in racing is biased in that "shifting" is usually in regards to the actual firmness or actuaction of the shift itself, not the precursor to it which will all ways be vacuum and line pressure related. So, when I read of others "improved shifting",...I too am a bit confused. I tried to steer my description differently than that. Perhaps I was unclear.
EDIT:
Re-reading Jacobs note, I probably should state that using "tranny slippage" is probably misleading. I'm sure you mean torque converter slippage which is, in essence directly related to engine speed (RPM) and the pressure inside of the TC. These TC's take more engine rpm before sending power to the rear wheels because of the increased angle of the blades/fins inside the TC. Imagine a standard fan blowing into another fan. The other fan will start to spin. Same for a TC but all is incased and filled with fluid.
Last edited by BA_GS400; 10-08-04 at 10:21 AM.
10-08-04, 12:02 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, my comments were directed to JacobT's post about the rpm, "slipping" etc., but I forgot to quote his post when I made mine.
BA_GS400- thanks for the clarification, I agree there may be some reason related to the way the PI TC is made that allows it to either unlock or even enable the trans to downshift from 5th to 4th more easily (although it still seems like those actions would be controlled by the ECU and other factors).
Bottom line- this is a mod that works very well and if it affects the way the trans performs in a positive way, that's great!
BTW-the trans cooler you used; was it the B&M model 70255?
BA_GS400- thanks for the clarification, I agree there may be some reason related to the way the PI TC is made that allows it to either unlock or even enable the trans to downshift from 5th to 4th more easily (although it still seems like those actions would be controlled by the ECU and other factors).
Bottom line- this is a mod that works very well and if it affects the way the trans performs in a positive way, that's great!
BTW-the trans cooler you used; was it the B&M model 70255?
10-08-04, 01:43 PM
#28
Originally posted by Hameed
Congrats on the install!!
Question regarding your statement about how it improves your acceleration when you are in 5th gear. I don't see how this is possible considering the fact that all the TC does is raise your stall speed from 1800 to 2800 rpm. This just helps your launch from a stop.
Once you are rolling how can the higher stall speed affect your acceleration when you hit the gas at speed and the car downshifts from 5th to 4th? That does not make any sense to me...............
Congrats on the install!!
Question regarding your statement about how it improves your acceleration when you are in 5th gear. I don't see how this is possible considering the fact that all the TC does is raise your stall speed from 1800 to 2800 rpm. This just helps your launch from a stop.
Once you are rolling how can the higher stall speed affect your acceleration when you hit the gas at speed and the car downshifts from 5th to 4th? That does not make any sense to me...............
i think it helps if we understand more about how our car detects if a downshift is necesary?
10-08-04, 01:43 PM
#29
Originally posted by FutureGS400
Actually, my comments were directed to JacobT's post about the rpm, "slipping" etc., but I forgot to quote his post when I made mine.
BA_GS400- thanks for the clarification, I agree there may be some reason related to the way the PI TC is made that allows it to either unlock or even enable the trans to downshift from 5th to 4th more easily (although it still seems like those actions would be controlled by the ECU and other factors).
Bottom line- this is a mod that works very well and if it affects the way the trans performs in a positive way, that's great!
BTW-the trans cooler you used; was it the B&M model 70255?
Actually, my comments were directed to JacobT's post about the rpm, "slipping" etc., but I forgot to quote his post when I made mine.
BA_GS400- thanks for the clarification, I agree there may be some reason related to the way the PI TC is made that allows it to either unlock or even enable the trans to downshift from 5th to 4th more easily (although it still seems like those actions would be controlled by the ECU and other factors).
Bottom line- this is a mod that works very well and if it affects the way the trans performs in a positive way, that's great!
BTW-the trans cooler you used; was it the B&M model 70255?
10-08-04, 01:57 PM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: California
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by rominl
good question, i don't know exactly why, but that's the case for me too. it down shifts really fast and hits right the way. in fact, when i am on 4th on freeway onramp, i gun it (too much), it suddenly went all the way from 4th to 2nd and the car was like a jet flight. very fast, i was shocked.
i think it helps if we understand more about how our car detects if a downshift is necesary?
good question, i don't know exactly why, but that's the case for me too. it down shifts really fast and hits right the way. in fact, when i am on 4th on freeway onramp, i gun it (too much), it suddenly went all the way from 4th to 2nd and the car was like a jet flight. very fast, i was shocked.
i think it helps if we understand more about how our car detects if a downshift is necesary?
The cooler you got was the thicker one and I assume you had no problems with installation etc.?
I need to order one so I'll be ready to do the TC install (if I can get a hold of Todd @ TM Eng.)
Last edited by FutureGS400; 10-11-04 at 11:01 AM.