Why should I pick the GS300 over these other cars?
10-17-04, 03:06 PM
#17
When I bought my 98 GS4, I drove every 530i/540i/E320/GS300/GS400 and I ended up with my GS because
1 ---- Out of the 3, it looks the best. It looks more athletic than the other 2, although performance wise, the BMW is better all around when considering handling, power, etc. I didn't really think this generation of the 5 series looked THAT good until I saw the new ones. The Lexus styling, even on it's 6th year, still looks good and classy. The E looks too boxy.
2 ---- Toyota's reliability. I know several LS400's and Camry's that have over 280,000 miles on them. Mercedes used to be reliable, but this isn't 1980 anymore.
3 ---- Cost to maintain the car. Even looking at the cost to maintain my GS4, it makes me miss my Camry. That's the only time I've thought about my Camry since dumping it for a GS.
Here's how I broke it down
GS400 > 540i > GS300 > 530i > E320
GS4 is the best buy. Most powerful of the group as well.
1 ---- Out of the 3, it looks the best. It looks more athletic than the other 2, although performance wise, the BMW is better all around when considering handling, power, etc. I didn't really think this generation of the 5 series looked THAT good until I saw the new ones. The Lexus styling, even on it's 6th year, still looks good and classy. The E looks too boxy.
2 ---- Toyota's reliability. I know several LS400's and Camry's that have over 280,000 miles on them. Mercedes used to be reliable, but this isn't 1980 anymore.
3 ---- Cost to maintain the car. Even looking at the cost to maintain my GS4, it makes me miss my Camry. That's the only time I've thought about my Camry since dumping it for a GS.
Here's how I broke it down
GS400 > 540i > GS300 > 530i > E320
GS4 is the best buy. Most powerful of the group as well.
10-17-04, 04:02 PM
#18
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i was in the exact same position like when i bought my gs 300. I looked at all of those cars above and drove them. wasnt really concerned about the accel or speed since i already have another fast car and sports bike. If i was looking for speed accel, i would have gone with gs4 or 540 but out of rest of the cars, def liked the gs300 over 5 series bmw and e320 or even e430.
10-17-04, 04:53 PM
#19
hmmm............
my answer to your question would be because u want us to consider u SMART,,,,,,,,,,,lol, man theres no comparison..........u want a nice, comfortable, reliable, attractive, roomy, awesome car or do u want to be at the dealership every other month spending 500 to a grand,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just a thought
10-17-04, 05:03 PM
#20
Well, I can add some first hand experience to this argument.
Back in late '98 my mom and stepfather were looking for the best buy for around $48K and narrowed down to the E320 and 528i. My (ex) stepfather was a brand snob to say the least, and always said that Lexus are nothing more than gussied up Toyotas that he'd never drive so the GS300 was never considered.
The Bimmer rides hard. You feel every bump, rock, rutt and imperfection in the road, but at the same time it handles the best of the three. It's a trade off really...you get a smooth ride or you get handling like a go cart. To be honest, I own a car right now that drives like this (Camry with TRD shocks, springs, struts, BBS wheels and performance tires) and I hate it. It handles like it's on rails, and I love that, however, the ride is punishing and there are some days where I really just wish I had a smoother riding car. I'm a teenage boy so there are plenty of times where I love the suspension and handling on my car, but overall, I'd gladly give up some G-Pulling ability for a more barable ride. Think about the fact that honestly, the only time that the BMW is going to have any handling advantage over the other two is if you're going up to the mountains or drive like a maniac (which granted, can be fun!). The interior is probably the least luxurious and least appealing of the three, and it's also the least comfortable IMO. BMW's seats are firm and supportive and sometimes thats nice, but overall I wouldn't want to take a road trip in the Bimmer if I had an option of the other two. I have a few friends who have 528is and 530is and all of them have had little problems with their cars. Never anything major but lots of electrical glitches, some engine work, brakes that always need maintenance, ect. It'd be my third pick overall.
Here are a few comments from Car and Driver on the 530i:
"On the road, it has the kind of trusty, predictable control responses and moves that we like. And, of course, impressive power from its 3.0-liter six. But it shows its age, too. Once a great-riding car, it now has been surpassed. Others are smoother and have fewer quivers in their structures following road impacts. "
"Others make less noise, too. Lots of sounds filter into the cockpit at idle, more than in the others. Interior controls, particularly for the heating and air-conditioning systems, seem wrongheaded. There's a rustic look to the dash, in part from markings and positioning of buttons and dials that may be BMW traditions but also betray a Munich isolationism."
"Criticism of the Jag—that it's confining for the driver—must be applied nearly equally to the BMW. Both companies try to wall off the driver from the rest of the car with a narrow foot space and a prominent console down the center. "
Highs: Control responses feel familiar and comforting, driver's seat accommodates all shapes, lots of engine music (for the few who need that in the $50K class).
Lows: Dated dash, tightly confining driver's compartment, loud at idle, ride on the harsh side.
They ended up buying the E320, and I must say that it was a good car. The engine is fabulous IMO, but not as smooth and snarly as the GS300's I6. It does get loud, but never intrusive, and likes to rev. It's a very enjoyable engine whether you're just driving to work or stomping it from a greenlight. The interior is pretty bland and boring, but more inviting and more comfortable than the BMWs. The car is composed in hard driving, but not as fluid and manageable as the GS, but overall it's a nicer car to own on a day to day basis than the 528i. The handling will satisfy the average person, the engine is great, it's smoother than the Bimmer, but not as "full package" as the GS300, IMO. The exterior is by far the worst of the three IMO. It was just horridly bland and not as Germanic as the 528i, nor as sporty, sleek and modern as the GS300. We also had a few little problems with our car- the windows would go up and then slip back down, radio went out a few times, and a few other, mainly electronic glitches. Overall, it was a great car and we really enjoyed it. It'd be my second pick.
I couldn't find any comments on the E320 from C&D.
The GS300 is about as "full package" as you can get here IMO. It handles nicely, accelerates faster than the other two (certainly not faster than the current Germans, but comparing these three cars the GS300 is fastest), has a smooth ride, fabulous interior, impeccable reliability, manageable maintanance costs, and sexy looks. The GS's handling is firmer and more responsive than the E320s with a smoother ride, and it's not as rock hard as the BMW. It's a very pleasant driving experience overall. The interior is far above the other two in comfort, features, style, and layout. The I6 engine is one of the very best Toyota/Lexus have ever produced and it's also one of the most reliable to roll off an assembly line. The Japanese are known for their electronics, and where you will probably have some electrical issues with the Germans, the GS should give you none. Overall, the GS should also hold it's resale better than the other two. If this was a race between three brand new cars, I wouldn't be as sure in my judgement, but when you're looking at cars that are 7-8 years old, the Lexus is still as reliable as it was when it was first built and with the BMW and Mercedes you've already had your share of little annoyances and there are only more to come. There are plenty of GS300s with 150K+ on them that run the same as the day they were purchased. You can't go wrong with the GS300, and the GS400 takes all the positive attributes about the car and brings them to the next level. If you've got the cash for the 400, it's a no-brainer.
A few comments from Car and Driver on the GS300:
"This Lexus has charm-school manners. We fit nicely in the driver's chair, the dials and details are easy to read if a bit small, the controls have a pleasing directness, and the in-line six sings a mellifluous purr. Even the BMW can't match its harmony. Nor can it approach the luxurious textures and hues of the GS300's interior appointments. Inside this car you feel a resident of the very best neighborhood."
"Generally, we like the handling a lot. It understeers predictably when pressed. Body motions are controlled, with a pleasing balance between athleticism and ride plushness. Part of the pleasure comes from the astute driver position—you sit up in this car—with a nicely located and large rest for your left foot. This is a machine you can work with. The shifter buttons on the spokes allow you to change gears without taking your hands from the rim. The steering is light, yet the turning effort builds appropriately as you corner. You can feel what's going on down at the tire contacts. The GS300 talks to you with tactile subtleties rather than sounds. It never goes numb on you."
"As a passenger hauler, it ties the longer and far wider Audi for best comfort in back with two passengers and tops them all for three. As usual, Toyota knows exactly where to carve out space and add padding"
Highs: Built like a jewel box, great shifter buttons on the steering spokes, cockpit seems to fit all sizes, impeccable manners over the miles.
Lows: Overly sensitive stop and go pedals, weak engine muscles*
*These comments were taken from a comparison of 2003 Model Year vehicles, so the GS300 was slower than the others.
Hope that helps
-Michael-
Back in late '98 my mom and stepfather were looking for the best buy for around $48K and narrowed down to the E320 and 528i. My (ex) stepfather was a brand snob to say the least, and always said that Lexus are nothing more than gussied up Toyotas that he'd never drive so the GS300 was never considered.
The Bimmer rides hard. You feel every bump, rock, rutt and imperfection in the road, but at the same time it handles the best of the three. It's a trade off really...you get a smooth ride or you get handling like a go cart. To be honest, I own a car right now that drives like this (Camry with TRD shocks, springs, struts, BBS wheels and performance tires) and I hate it. It handles like it's on rails, and I love that, however, the ride is punishing and there are some days where I really just wish I had a smoother riding car. I'm a teenage boy so there are plenty of times where I love the suspension and handling on my car, but overall, I'd gladly give up some G-Pulling ability for a more barable ride. Think about the fact that honestly, the only time that the BMW is going to have any handling advantage over the other two is if you're going up to the mountains or drive like a maniac (which granted, can be fun!). The interior is probably the least luxurious and least appealing of the three, and it's also the least comfortable IMO. BMW's seats are firm and supportive and sometimes thats nice, but overall I wouldn't want to take a road trip in the Bimmer if I had an option of the other two. I have a few friends who have 528is and 530is and all of them have had little problems with their cars. Never anything major but lots of electrical glitches, some engine work, brakes that always need maintenance, ect. It'd be my third pick overall.
Here are a few comments from Car and Driver on the 530i:
"On the road, it has the kind of trusty, predictable control responses and moves that we like. And, of course, impressive power from its 3.0-liter six. But it shows its age, too. Once a great-riding car, it now has been surpassed. Others are smoother and have fewer quivers in their structures following road impacts. "
"Others make less noise, too. Lots of sounds filter into the cockpit at idle, more than in the others. Interior controls, particularly for the heating and air-conditioning systems, seem wrongheaded. There's a rustic look to the dash, in part from markings and positioning of buttons and dials that may be BMW traditions but also betray a Munich isolationism."
"Criticism of the Jag—that it's confining for the driver—must be applied nearly equally to the BMW. Both companies try to wall off the driver from the rest of the car with a narrow foot space and a prominent console down the center. "
Highs: Control responses feel familiar and comforting, driver's seat accommodates all shapes, lots of engine music (for the few who need that in the $50K class).
Lows: Dated dash, tightly confining driver's compartment, loud at idle, ride on the harsh side.
They ended up buying the E320, and I must say that it was a good car. The engine is fabulous IMO, but not as smooth and snarly as the GS300's I6. It does get loud, but never intrusive, and likes to rev. It's a very enjoyable engine whether you're just driving to work or stomping it from a greenlight. The interior is pretty bland and boring, but more inviting and more comfortable than the BMWs. The car is composed in hard driving, but not as fluid and manageable as the GS, but overall it's a nicer car to own on a day to day basis than the 528i. The handling will satisfy the average person, the engine is great, it's smoother than the Bimmer, but not as "full package" as the GS300, IMO. The exterior is by far the worst of the three IMO. It was just horridly bland and not as Germanic as the 528i, nor as sporty, sleek and modern as the GS300. We also had a few little problems with our car- the windows would go up and then slip back down, radio went out a few times, and a few other, mainly electronic glitches. Overall, it was a great car and we really enjoyed it. It'd be my second pick.
I couldn't find any comments on the E320 from C&D.
The GS300 is about as "full package" as you can get here IMO. It handles nicely, accelerates faster than the other two (certainly not faster than the current Germans, but comparing these three cars the GS300 is fastest), has a smooth ride, fabulous interior, impeccable reliability, manageable maintanance costs, and sexy looks. The GS's handling is firmer and more responsive than the E320s with a smoother ride, and it's not as rock hard as the BMW. It's a very pleasant driving experience overall. The interior is far above the other two in comfort, features, style, and layout. The I6 engine is one of the very best Toyota/Lexus have ever produced and it's also one of the most reliable to roll off an assembly line. The Japanese are known for their electronics, and where you will probably have some electrical issues with the Germans, the GS should give you none. Overall, the GS should also hold it's resale better than the other two. If this was a race between three brand new cars, I wouldn't be as sure in my judgement, but when you're looking at cars that are 7-8 years old, the Lexus is still as reliable as it was when it was first built and with the BMW and Mercedes you've already had your share of little annoyances and there are only more to come. There are plenty of GS300s with 150K+ on them that run the same as the day they were purchased. You can't go wrong with the GS300, and the GS400 takes all the positive attributes about the car and brings them to the next level. If you've got the cash for the 400, it's a no-brainer.
A few comments from Car and Driver on the GS300:
"This Lexus has charm-school manners. We fit nicely in the driver's chair, the dials and details are easy to read if a bit small, the controls have a pleasing directness, and the in-line six sings a mellifluous purr. Even the BMW can't match its harmony. Nor can it approach the luxurious textures and hues of the GS300's interior appointments. Inside this car you feel a resident of the very best neighborhood."
"Generally, we like the handling a lot. It understeers predictably when pressed. Body motions are controlled, with a pleasing balance between athleticism and ride plushness. Part of the pleasure comes from the astute driver position—you sit up in this car—with a nicely located and large rest for your left foot. This is a machine you can work with. The shifter buttons on the spokes allow you to change gears without taking your hands from the rim. The steering is light, yet the turning effort builds appropriately as you corner. You can feel what's going on down at the tire contacts. The GS300 talks to you with tactile subtleties rather than sounds. It never goes numb on you."
"As a passenger hauler, it ties the longer and far wider Audi for best comfort in back with two passengers and tops them all for three. As usual, Toyota knows exactly where to carve out space and add padding"
Highs: Built like a jewel box, great shifter buttons on the steering spokes, cockpit seems to fit all sizes, impeccable manners over the miles.
Lows: Overly sensitive stop and go pedals, weak engine muscles*
*These comments were taken from a comparison of 2003 Model Year vehicles, so the GS300 was slower than the others.
Hope that helps
-Michael-
10-17-04, 06:33 PM
#22
Originally posted by rpb86
If I were to choose on looks alone, the Bimmer wins.
If I were to choose on looks alone, the Bimmer wins.
Looks to dated for my taste... unless you are a bimmer fan.
When my GS and my Father-in-Laws 97 540i are parked in his driveway all the neighbors comment on my car and can't believe it's used. His BMW is flawless but does not draw the same attention.
10-17-04, 11:45 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
I looked at these cars, too. I bought the GS 400 mostly based on legendary Lexus reliability.
I do have friends with the other cars you mentioned- here are my conclusions:
BMW 528/530: Handsome car, unispired interior. Awful red dash lights and strange-sounding audio systems.
A friend just had front and rear rotors and pads done on his 528i- it was $1200 at the dealership! A replacement power window regulator was $900 (after it left him in Los Angeles with a rear window that wouldn't go up). Sport package has firm ride, but looks better ue to lower stance. The 17" optional Sport mesh wheels will NEVER be clean, however, due to overwhelming BMW brake dust.
(By the way, a GS400 is actually quicker than the 540i automatic and will certainly surprise the owner of a 540i 6-speed. Since you are looking at the 6-cylinder models, this is of no consequence to you.
0-60 times on the 6-cylinder cars you are considering , for all intents and purposes, is the same.)
Mercedes 320/420: A pretty car if you get the AMG kit or do some lowering /body kit work. Dated, boring interior- almost depressingly teutonic. Huge, bus-driver steering wheel. Engine may require valve cover gaskets and/or head gasket replacement. Power steering rack may require replacement. Poor electrical reliability, but all items can be (happily) serviced by my friend, a Master MB Technician at Mercedes Benz of Laguna Niguel (he made $100K servicing MBs last year).
This car has a lack of appeal here in Southern california, as most W210 chassis E320s (the body style you are looking at) are driven by 50-year old divorced women or realtors.
Lexus GS 300: Rock-solid inline-6, pleasant interior with unique dash lighting. Excellent fit and finish. In my neighborhood, a unique car among the ubiquitous BMW and Mercedes vehicles. A no-brainer. Also, the GS is still a "current" body style, at least for a few months...
I do have friends with the other cars you mentioned- here are my conclusions:
BMW 528/530: Handsome car, unispired interior. Awful red dash lights and strange-sounding audio systems.
A friend just had front and rear rotors and pads done on his 528i- it was $1200 at the dealership! A replacement power window regulator was $900 (after it left him in Los Angeles with a rear window that wouldn't go up). Sport package has firm ride, but looks better ue to lower stance. The 17" optional Sport mesh wheels will NEVER be clean, however, due to overwhelming BMW brake dust.
(By the way, a GS400 is actually quicker than the 540i automatic and will certainly surprise the owner of a 540i 6-speed. Since you are looking at the 6-cylinder models, this is of no consequence to you.
0-60 times on the 6-cylinder cars you are considering , for all intents and purposes, is the same.)
Mercedes 320/420: A pretty car if you get the AMG kit or do some lowering /body kit work. Dated, boring interior- almost depressingly teutonic. Huge, bus-driver steering wheel. Engine may require valve cover gaskets and/or head gasket replacement. Power steering rack may require replacement. Poor electrical reliability, but all items can be (happily) serviced by my friend, a Master MB Technician at Mercedes Benz of Laguna Niguel (he made $100K servicing MBs last year).
This car has a lack of appeal here in Southern california, as most W210 chassis E320s (the body style you are looking at) are driven by 50-year old divorced women or realtors.
Lexus GS 300: Rock-solid inline-6, pleasant interior with unique dash lighting. Excellent fit and finish. In my neighborhood, a unique car among the ubiquitous BMW and Mercedes vehicles. A no-brainer. Also, the GS is still a "current" body style, at least for a few months...
10-18-04, 01:12 AM
#26
omg hands down the gs4 wins. e class mb is so freaking old. my aunt has one, and the cluster looks like it came out a 92. the 5 series is something that i would consider. but looking at cost on maintinance on a 97, parts, the gs wins my a landslide. i actually considered those 2 cars before i purchase my gs. these are the crucial things i thought about, there i got the gs.
10-18-04, 03:35 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by rpb86
I would but I don't know of any BMW or MB boards.
I would but I don't know of any BMW or MB boards.
and for mb www.mbworld.org
if you guys any better sites post up
ask the same question .....i really would love to know what they say
10-18-04, 05:10 AM
#28
which?
Originally posted by T.L.W.
try for bmw www.e46fanatics.com
and for mb www.mbworld.org
if you guys any better sites post up
ask the same question .....i really would love to know what they say
try for bmw www.e46fanatics.com
and for mb www.mbworld.org
if you guys any better sites post up
ask the same question .....i really would love to know what they say
Here's a few:
www.germantechnik.com
www.germancarfans.com
www.mbnz.org
These guys all love their german and will probably give biased replies. I have seen a few who are tired of their cars flaws and hate to admit it.
