v300

Guys,

Who is interested in a custom front brake kit? I am working with Jon Kaneda of Ziel Motorsports on customizing a front brake kit for the JZS16# 98+ GS300/400/430. FYI, Ziel's experience with custom brake systems include Porsche and their 993 GT-2 campaign and countless custom work on R32-R34, 300ZXs, JZA80, 93+ RX-7s... and soon my V300. The components we will be consisting of Brembo and genuine Porsche OEM components:

1) 996 Twin Turbo Calipers
2) 993 Twin Turbo (RSR, 993 GT-2) rotors at 335mmX32mm
3) 996 Twin pads
4) Ziel CNC machine rotor housing
5) Ziel Caliper Bracket.

This setup has been proven on the current 3600+lb 911 twin turbo. According to Jon's calculations, stopping a 3900 lb. GS on a dime will not be a problem with this kit. This custom kit requires at least 18" wheels. Sofar price will range anything from $1900 to $2400 depending on demand.

So who is interested? I will be getting more information shortly.

Manaray

Why use 996/993 calipers, rotors and pads? Couldn't they just get factory Brembo, AP Racing, or Alcon parts? I wouldn't want my brake kit to say "Porsche" on it anywhere! What, if any, advantages are there to using the 996/993 parts? And why not used the 996 GT2's rotors?

The price is pretty good (a little less than a similiar Brembo setup).

What I would like to see is a 14" or larger rotor along with a 8 to 12 piston system instead...with a minimum of 19" wheels...

Can they make something like that?

BETTER YET, how about a REAR brake upgrade also? 13" rotor with a 4-piston setup would be great!

v300

Hey Manaray,

Thanks for posting... I was beginning to get lonely.

I believe one of the reasons for using the selected 996/993 parts is that Zeal is a distributor and brake specialist for Porsche and RUF. Since Jon also works with high-end Japanese sport cars he has experimented with Brembo and Porsche combinations respectively on them. The MotorEx 600rwhp Blackbird R34 uses one of Ziel's custom brake kit. From our conversation he concluded that the parts are easily obtainable (that and I've seen his stash), proven and effective, aesthetically pleasing, and will work with our GS's ABS system. And since a group buy is on the way it would be easier for him to the lower the cost by making bulk housing at the machine shop. By the way, he can powder coat the "Porsche" logo on the caliper and leave it blank or use "Ziel" in it's place.

Please recall that the 996 is a heavy and extremely fast stock car. The brake system is more than suitable for that car already. The general design on the OE system was considered for Porsche owners who didn't mind getting chump-change traffic tickets.

I believe the 996 GT-2 rotors are going to be a tad bit expensive. Our plan was to aim for cost effective solution for the moderately heavy JZS16#. The kit is supposedly cheaper than the Brembo F50 ($2700 and smaller rotor/less pistons) and Stillen/AP Racing kits ($3000). Since my car will be the proto-type it will be a direct bolt on for our GS's. Back to the GT-2, you're talking about the Porsche Ceramic Composit System correct? Man, Porsche dealers charges 7K for that option on the standard Twin Turbo.

My car runs 19in Advans and the kit will be 14" with 6 piston calipers. On a personal note, I am aiming for quality "streetable" and not an overkill... to my wallet and passengers. Not everyone in the world drives the public roads like Daytona or Sebring, thus the demand note on 12" piston system might be restricted to custom work only. If you have like you can contact Jon about using a 8" to 12" piston system instead.

Regarding a rear brake kit with 13" rotor and a 4-piston setup... I am not too sure about that. What are you going to do about the E-brake? Again if you like to custom design that system I believe Jon wouldn't mind doing the custom work if you have the $$$$.

Manaray

I think the Porsche logo will definitely need to come off...I can't imagine many Lexus owners wanting that logo on their brake system (but who knows!) As for the rear brake upgrade, I don't remember the last time I used my e-brake...I don't think it would be a problem for me...

Good point about the 8-12 piston system and the ceramic brakes...I guess it would be a little overkill but then again, I think a lot of the people who are doing brake upgrades want the added performace and DO drive pulbic roads like Daytona or Sebring (or Suzuka, etc.)... A 8 or 12 piston system would be a nice option for those who like overkill.

$1900 for a complete brake system sound pretty good...but the rotor is a 13.2" rotor (335/2.54), right?

A 14" rotor with a 6 piston setup works for me...does Ziel want another GS (GS430) to sponsor?

GS4Will

V,

i wanted to contribute earlier, but i had some tech problems.

the porsche logo def has to leave. the ZEALs woud be very nice.
so the system would not work if one has wheels smaller than 19"s?
any chance the cost would be more close to $1500(do not mean to be unreasonable)

Manaray,
so 13.2" rotor is still not large enough?

gs4power

Brembo is the OEM supplier for Porsche's brake components, mainly discs and calipers, modified slightly to comply with Porche's specifications ( the Porsche badge being the most evident). Fortunately, Porsche brake parts are a bit cheaper than the regular Brembo ones because of marketing/volume reasons. I wouldn't mind to save a little $$ and have the Porsche badge removed later on.

It is my understanding the 996 Turbo calipers are a 4 piston, monoblock design (not 6 piston). The monoblock construction of the calipers is the only feature that distinguish them from other Brembo kits (like the F40).

About the >8 piston brakes... definitely overkill for the road, and not even advisable for street use. The large number of pistons allow for better heat dissipation through the fluid, great for avoiding boiling (fade) under extreme racing conditions, but not good for initial pad bite (due to the larger pad area), and reliability goes down a notch or two.

v300

Manaray,

The rotor is 355 not 332. Yes, they will look nice with your 19s. The Porsche logo is easily dealt with because Jon can has powder-coating capabilities. I've seen plain red and also yellow calipers in his stash. I've also seen ones that have "Ziel" on the calipers. As for getting rid of the e-brakes and allowing the larger rear brake system... hypothetically speaking the rear might lock-up during hard braking without proper provisioning. It might create an adverse countersteer when the ABS engages under hard braking... then again I have not witnessed a GS with such a mod under emergency cirstance. However, it will look really "trick." As for sponsorship, I am not sponsored by Ziel. My part of the deal is prototyping that kit thus waiving labor and getting parts at cost. Jon did mentioned a possible sponsorship. The catch is that you'll have to upgrade to a complete JIC Magic suspension (Ohlins based coil-over [a lot thicker than my Tein HAs] w/ pillow mount, complete undercarriage suspension, rear and front strut bar); "the brake kit"; Bullet Exhaust System (components are manufactured by Fujitsubo), and DTA stand-alone engine management unit. I hope I didn't leave anything out.

gs4will,

Thanks for your interest. The rotor in fact is almost 14." I've seen a similar setup on a client's R33 with 18" Super Advan Generation II on the premises. Jon said as long as you meet the factory's proper offset the kit should fit nicely. If not, a hub/spacer will be utilized in the worst case scenario. As for pricing, its going to be strictly dependent on demand. Before Jon even starts the prototype I need 5 more buyers. I think $1800 is a possibility. Paying less than $2000 for such a JZS-16# specific kit utilizing Brembo/Porsche components is a good deal.

gs4power,

Thanks for your input. Maybe you can assist me in filling the blanks in the technical aspects for this kit. I am still trying to learn as much as possible because getting a genuine Brembo/Porsche kit under $2000 is a bargain. Interested? The picture below shows the 996 Twin Turbo's 18" standard wheel.

gs4power

V300,

Always a pleasure to help! Send me a PM or post here.

Recently I bought the F40-based Brembo kit from Steve. Still waiting for the customs processing - should get them within a week. With the kit on my hands I could assist you with any questions you might have.

v300

gs4power,

Mind if I ask you how much you acquired the Brembo F40 kit for? I was interested in that kit buy but the price was what stopped me from doing so. Also was that kit specific for the GS or an assumption was made due to similarities between the GS and the JZA80? Thanks.

gs4power

I learned from Steve that the brake kit is specific for the GS, you can find the specific model # on the Brembo N America website. On the price, retail is about $2900, ask Steve for the clublexus discount if you're interested.

v300

gs4power,

Thanks for replying. The ClubLexus discount is still how can I put it... not cheap. Then again Brembo is not cheap. The last time I've checked the price was still a tad bit less than $2600.00 due to low demand and Steve not being a high volume purchaser of Brembo products. Power to Steve though

Then again... if the prototype works out well and the components outperform the F40 kit maybe Steve can be a distributor for the Porsche/Brembo 14" rotor/996 caliper kit from Ziel eh? At this point we are aiming for under $2000 per kit... I just need a market.

RacingAristo

If the kit is lower than $2000, it's very attractive and I may consider an upgrade.

David GS400

iTrader: (1)

If you can get it under 2k, I am interested!

Manaray

$2600 for a Brembo kit isn't bad...if Ziel can do their kit for $1900 w/o the Porsche logo, I think you'll have a winner...

On a similar vein, I got finally got my kit installed (AP Racing 6 Piston caliper with a Stillen designed/manufactured hat (it's a 2 piece system) with a AP Racing 13.56" rotor...along with some Goodridge Steel Braided Lines and Motul high temp brake fluid...here's a pict...

Man, I gotta clean my rims! (notice the purplish brake dust haze...those slots/holes make some SERIOUS brake dust!)

KKelly

I would also recommend you guys check with a company called Stoptech. I hear they do a great job and retain stock pedal feel. I would imagine those of you who went too 6 piston calipers noticed a difference in pedal feel. In my M5, going to a 4 piston made the pedal travel a bit more before biting.

If you go for these huge 6-8 piston set ups, to do it right would require some mods to the brake system itself (like a bigger master cylinder). I would ask these tuners about these issues.

I just did my front for now due to $$ (345mm/32 Euro M5 floating rotors with 4 piston ATE's, BMW part that bolts right on, $1750 including pads). However, they are working great as my car is very front brake biased in stock form (I hope to get the 328 mm rears next year sometime). The GS has a noticeably large rear rotor and I would be somewhat concerned that you are affecting braking bias without doing all four corners together.

I have now tracked my car with my set up 6 days and they are working great with no fade or soft pedal (also have steel lines and super blue).

Unless you are doing it just for looks, a 4 piston set up with a 13"-14" rotor should be sufficient for hard street and occassional track use. I think the Alcons and AP Racing are overkill for most cars, even those used quite often in driving schools. They don't actually stop your car that much quicker in an emergency stop on the street than the stock brakes -- it is the additional stops where their heat capacitiy improves your braking.

As for appearance, my rotors do look huge but I painted my calipers black including the //M stamp. No need to attract undue attention from our public servants.


FYI, many new E39 M5 owners have been able to use their stock brakes on the track with no problems by changing the pads, fluid, lines and, most importantly, ducting their brakes (it was actually built in, they just had to open the ducts up).