So why don't we run bicycle tires?

The grip (traction) is a function of the amount of tire you can get on the road and the coefficient of friction between the tire and the road -- that's a function of tire compound, tire pressure, tread pattern, road surface, etc.

Short answer -- The more rubber you can get on the road, the more grip.

 

Well, if we used bicyle tires they would wear out once every week.

I don't want to start a fight about this since I'm anything but sure how traction work. I just know that people that have worked with tires on F1 racing cars have told me that wider tires do not equal more grip.

 

what O/T just presented in a way confirmed the tirerack testing result as well as many japanese racing wheels actually end at 18".

in one of the tirercak "upsizing" tests on wheels/tyres upgrading, depends on different cars, 19/20 might not necessarily mean the best improvement in performance traction. for certain model cars, 17/18 are actually the most ideal. for plus sizing in term of achieving max. performance results.

Mat Stone, senior editor of Motortrend also mentioned in an article on "diminishing returns when it comes to wheel/tyre upsizing"-sometimes larger does not necessarily mean better

just what i read in the past

 

Hi Overtaxed,

Please let me clarify a few things. What you said holds true for most “hard surfaces” under classical friction situations. BUT, automobile tires in general and racing tires in particular are exceedingly poor examples of "classical" friction.

Rubber is an elastic solid and “deforms” at a very low stress level. It can conform to the macro/microscopic imperfections on the asfalt. With rubber, in general, you can gain more friction force by increasing surface area (where as with other harder materials, you cannot). A bigger contact patch will allow a higher number of “grip points”. The lower pressure resulting from the increase in contact area, IN GENERAL and within the width range of standard production tires, won’t overcome the gripping effect thanks to the elastic (conforming) properties of rubber at low stress levels. This effect becomes even more pronounced as tire temperature risens.

Apart from the theory, it is widely accepted by practical experience that wider tires are grippier under dry conditions. However, wet conditions are a totally different story (and the theories become even more complicated!). Hope this clarifies the subject.

 

gs4power,

Thanks for putting it in better terms than I could.

Marty


William,

I believe you are confusing wider tires with bigger rims. I'm talking about increasing the cross section of the tire not the diameter.

 

thanks marty and miguel for the clarification...

 

Manaray thanks for clearing up things in my mind. I just mean TUNER WHEELS like you, not necessarily racial differences. Like, I have NOTHING against HRE wheels. They're not Japanese, but I wouldn't mind having those on my Lexus.

I thought the staggered setup would help the grip and traction. Don't think all FR vehicles would use staggered setups for looks only.

Both AVS dB and AVS Sport are very good tires. I have dBs now and they are very quiet like the stock wheels I had. AVS Sports perform not any less than S-02s.


I don't see anything wrong with the 400 series HRE wheels on the GS. They got the sizes, and different designs. It's just that most people who considers HREs have so much money that they would rather get 3-piece 500 series wheels. For me 2-piece 400s are enough. Talk about the money saved!

I don't want to make a statement if I don't know what i'm talking about. I don't know the quality of both the Fikse and Kinesis wheels, so I'll leave that up to someone else. But I think for these actual racing/tuning wheels, performance should all be around the same level. It's all up to personal taste on the design.

I wouldn't buy these tho. I strongly recommend Japanese wheels still, due to the fact that they can bring the same if not better performance at a fraction of the cost. I would take a RAYS wheel over the Fikses or the Kinesises anytime. Somehow These wheels don't seem like they belong on a GS. More like on a Porsche, with black surface and chrome lips. But that's personal taste.

Don't spend so much money on wheels. hahaha. If you're considering something like HREs then that means you got performance in mind not just looks. Then try looking through the VolkRACING catalog.

Sorry for the lengthy reply!

 

Bobcat - The Fikse FM/10 is a nice wheel. $4K with tires sounds pretty good! I would do staggered personally (oh wait, I did do staggered! )...both for traction and looks.

That's pretty cool that you got to talk with one of the owners! Maybe you can talk him into work out a Club Lexus discount?

HRE 440 series - as GlobeCLK said, I don't see anything wrong with putting HRE 440 series wheels on a GS. I too think it's a cost issue. Most people who have IS300's and 3 series BMW's don't necessarily have $6K to drop on rims. But people that buy $57K GS430's and BMW 540i's (and of course, 80K-$120K Mercedes S500-CL600 class cars) usually do...

As far as quality about Fikse and Kinesis, I have friends that have them from my inspection (I'm not engineer by any means!), they looks as good as HRE's. Build quality, finish, etc., etc. I would have no problem putting them on my car or recommending them wholeheartedly.

Granted, as GlobeCLK said, you can get Japanese wheels with the same performance (if not better) for a fraction of the cost...but then again, they don't have the same designs. I've seen the Kinesis K28 on various car like a E430, 540i, etc., etc. and it looked good. The best way to get a idea is to photoshop it onto a white GS...that way, you can see what it'll look like before you buy them...

If money wasn't an object, I would get all of them. The Fikse FM/10 and the Kinesis K18 and K28 in every finish. Ok, if I had to pick one...hmmm, that would be a coin toss to tell you the truth. As for the color, on a White GS, I would agree that the silver would be classier (you can get the Kinesis in silver BTW) and the grey would be sportier. I would probably go classier, but if they had a set of grey ones in stock and were dealing on it, I would jump on it! Well that wasn't much help, was it!

Hey, anyone going to Hot Import Nights at the Long Beach whatever (Convention Center, Arena, whatever)? I'll be there...

 

The problem with writing a book on this stuff is that there will always be people who put fake rims on their cars, Lexus or not, and also put GS headlights on Neons! (check out that ugly toy on the other thread!)

Only people on this board can accept ideas like mine and Manaray's. Imagine us posting these things on TL forum or BMW board. We will be flamed because they're too hardcore to accept the truth.

 

Write a book would be great, but like GlobeCLK said, there will always be people who buy fake **** (honestly, I have more respect for people who run stock rims than buy fake ****)...but at least most of the people on this board are more open to our suggestions. People on Bimmer.org, etc. are too busy trying to prove who's **** is bigger.

Maybe we should write up a Club Lexus FAQ to stick in the "Lexus Q&A" section (don't you guys it should be call the "Lexus FAQs" section instead?)..."The Club Lexus Style Guide for Wheels". We can talk about what "Fake" and "Knock-Off" rims are, the reason why you don't put Carlssons on your GS, talk about what PCD, Offset, etc., is...the correct width rims, the advantages of staggered setups, maybe some brief info about some rim companies, recommendations (both for and against), etc., etc...

Think about it Globe, no more 5 page threads about the same **** over and over! We can just direct people to the FAQ!

 

I agree with adding a section to FAQ's about rims/tires.

I also suggest the following:

A new folder under Gallery dedicated to rims/tires. It could contain close-ups and regular photos of cars with rims and the person submitting the pic should indicate which rims/tires are on the vehicle.

 

Sounds lilke a great idea. Why not post this is the suggestions area or pm Michael.

 

I already brought it up a few weeks ago. Check the "suggestions" forum. I guess now that all the important members bring it up it will get done in no time. We newbies get no respect!!! J/J

It is the most talked about subject. I like the gallery idea. Even a few quick links could provide easy access to some of the more popular sites.

 

sounds good to put this info on Lexus QnA.

Should we write it as a long theory? Or like a Question and Answer style like what they got now?

I think the QnA style is easier to read and to structure, since we can go like:



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Should I use European tuner wheels like AMGs or Carlssons on my Lexus?

A: No because bla bla bla........ and bla bla bla and we'll spit at you and bla bla bla....... bla end of discussion don't use them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

sounds cool?

And how do we submit QnAs to have them up? Email them to Michael?

 

I think the Q&A method might be a little limiting...I think we should just type it all out and see if it can be made into a Q&A deal...hell, it could be done part in the Q&A format and part in paragraph format...like explaining offset...

Also, we could email some rim companies and have them give us some detail information about their manufacturing process. Like why is Racing Harts casting better than ALT's or why is forging better than simple billet?