M3 hater
02-27-05, 03:19 PM
#46
Originally Posted by CinFulxGS4
Here in the south, "smoking" someone usually means buslengths-cornfields. From a 2nd or 3rd gear roll a stock M3 is not going to put this distance on a GS using E-Shift sitting in gear... Hell, my buddies 05 E55 AMG put that kind of distance on me on the interstate and I know damn well no M3 is going to do better than that.
Nothing against the new M3's, but they are not that much faster "real world" than my 98 GS.
Nothing against the new M3's, but they are not that much faster "real world" than my 98 GS.
That is why I pay no attention to kill stories on car forums at all. 
02-27-05, 03:30 PM
#47
Lexus Champion
In case you're unaware of this, the SMG version (if not faster than) is just as fast as its stick shift counter part. Any average Joe can do well on a SMG tranny given practice.
Putting all the mods aside, stock for stock an E46 M3 will eat the GS for lunch despite having two fewer cylinders. Not to mention that there are just as many as aftermarket parts, if not more, for BMW in comparison to GS.
I do agree with the fact that most 6 cylinder (or 4 cylinder) BMWs feel very sluggish in the low RPM range. This is completely different from the perspectives of the pure power of a Lexus V8 engine. However, you rev that inline-six past beyond 6k RPM and all bets are off.
Jon
Putting all the mods aside, stock for stock an E46 M3 will eat the GS for lunch despite having two fewer cylinders. Not to mention that there are just as many as aftermarket parts, if not more, for BMW in comparison to GS.
I do agree with the fact that most 6 cylinder (or 4 cylinder) BMWs feel very sluggish in the low RPM range. This is completely different from the perspectives of the pure power of a Lexus V8 engine. However, you rev that inline-six past beyond 6k RPM and all bets are off.
Jon
Originally Posted by lexforlife
you guys have to be realistic here,, those nums that are published is with a professional driver max out and doing everything just right , how many can make that claim in the real world, all i know i have raped several and thats that 
02-27-05, 03:38 PM
#48
Originally Posted by Baby ///M3
eat the GS for lunch
Jon
Jon
I guess to be fair...
"eat the GS for lunch"="smoked"="raped"
Sorry Ed... LOL
I would have to think that in a race between such evenly matched vehicles (STOCK) the use of any of the above terms means someone was not racing, gave up, or something broke (not surprising with BMW - JK)
GS gets nod in engine size and TQ (maybe even drag), BMW gets nod on weight and HP... neither equals an outcome of the above terms.
Last edited by CinFulxgs; 02-27-05 at 03:44 PM.
02-27-05, 04:42 PM
#49
Originally Posted by Motu1
Lately I've been getting frustrated because every new M3 comes up and wants to go. I'm sure it doesn't help the my 430 has the looks. The car has all the L-tuned options(came with the car got it at auction killer deal would probably make most cry) and I installed an Injen cold air intake(OMG was the stock airbox a pain in the azz!) What's it gonna take to give these bimmers a run for the money?
Come middle March going to 19's I will post pics as soon as I slap the new shoes on
Any info to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated
Come middle March going to 19's I will post pics as soon as I slap the new shoes on
Any info to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated
If I had to make a bet, I'd put it on the M3 because it is a safe bet. Will it win every time? I can't say that for sure because road conditions, driver skill, and just pure (bad) luck comes into play. I believe Ed when he says he has beaten some M3s. I don't think he ever said in absolutes that the GS is faster than the M3.
02-27-05, 05:17 PM
#50
Originally Posted by Neo
This is what the original poster was after. He wanted to know how far he needed to take the GS to give the M3s "a run for their money". This was not about a theoretical discussion on which car is faster by the numbers, at least not intended by the original poster.
If I had to make a bet, I'd put it on the M3 because it is a safe bet. Will it win every time? I can't say that for sure because road conditions, driver skill, and just pure (bad) luck comes into play. I believe Ed when he says he has beaten some M3s. I don't think he ever said in absolutes that the GS is faster than the M3.
If I had to make a bet, I'd put it on the M3 because it is a safe bet. Will it win every time? I can't say that for sure because road conditions, driver skill, and just pure (bad) luck comes into play. I believe Ed when he says he has beaten some M3s. I don't think he ever said in absolutes that the GS is faster than the M3.
I would say do this to your GS
1. Keep 17's, get lightweight SSR Comps.
2. Don't go crazy with Suspension mods (added weight)
3. Loose the spare
4. Get a Carbon Fiber hood and Trunk
5. Do the throttle bypass mod and install TOMS thermostat.
6. SRT intake
7. TOM GS Barrel exhaust
8. TC
9. LSD
Should make running a M3 lots of fun. Adding a 75 shot of juice would lock it up 4 ya.
02-28-05, 12:49 AM
#51
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by Neo
This is what the original poster was after. He wanted to know how far he needed to take the GS to give the M3s "a run for their money". This was not about a theoretical discussion on which car is faster by the numbers, at least not intended by the original poster.
If I had to make a bet, I'd put it on the M3 because it is a safe bet. Will it win every time? I can't say that for sure because road conditions, driver skill, and just pure (bad) luck comes into play. I believe Ed when he says he has beaten some M3s. I don't think he ever said in absolutes that the GS is faster than the M3.
If I had to make a bet, I'd put it on the M3 because it is a safe bet. Will it win every time? I can't say that for sure because road conditions, driver skill, and just pure (bad) luck comes into play. I believe Ed when he says he has beaten some M3s. I don't think he ever said in absolutes that the GS is faster than the M3.
fair and well said.
02-28-05, 01:00 AM
#52
Lexus Champion
i'm utterly surprised by the mod-potential of the gs400. i'm higly reluctant on modding cars but the discussion so far has completely opened a whole new horizon in front of my eyes. some of you are aware that i'm slightly considering an e46. a white one if at all.
i love the driver-centric and detailed convenience of bmw's. although having owned only 1 beemer so far(a 2004), it hasn't caused me any problems at all as many rumors have about the terrible maintenance issue about beemers.
but if it only costs $20grand to boost a gs400 and make it a daily car, this would be a very interesting game plan that we are talking about here. after all, i've heard so many good stories about how the toyota engine can last at least 150 to 200 k miles. that's simply amazing engineering!
i love the driver-centric and detailed convenience of bmw's. although having owned only 1 beemer so far(a 2004), it hasn't caused me any problems at all as many rumors have about the terrible maintenance issue about beemers.
but if it only costs $20grand to boost a gs400 and make it a daily car, this would be a very interesting game plan that we are talking about here. after all, i've heard so many good stories about how the toyota engine can last at least 150 to 200 k miles. that's simply amazing engineering!
02-28-05, 02:00 AM
#53
Originally Posted by Lexy GS430
Hey' Rominl will the lsd, and tc make my engine checklight come on my 03 GS430?
Or is that even an option for the 03 430, and if it's avalible for 03 430, and the checklight does come on is there a way to get around that.
Or is that even an option for the 03 430, and if it's avalible for 03 430, and the checklight does come on is there a way to get around that.
but it's perfectly ok, not a problem at all. and the same tc goes on the gs430, same one from 98-05
haven't heard of a way to get around it though, since 01+ they have more sensors
02-28-05, 02:03 AM
#54
Originally Posted by BA_GS400
I'm glad to see that the facts rose to the top here. Even a GS4 with torque converter and 3.76 gearing shouldn't be beating the newer 330hp M3. The M3 is, as many have said already, in a different class. Better gearing, more HP, and lighter weight.
Someone mentioned the torque of our V8, well, it's a TINY V8 bro, and our cars are kinda portly.
Now, the slightly older, smaller 240hp 1995 era M3, now, ....there you're talking a potential race!!! (I think my TC'd car is a bit faster than my friends 95 M3)
Oh, and I have video of my other friend absolutely L E A V I N G me in his stock 330hp from 60 - 110mph. (i have stock gearing, and my car runs 14.17 at the track)
Perhaps the previous M3 is what LexforLife is racing??
Someone mentioned the torque of our V8, well, it's a TINY V8 bro, and our cars are kinda portly.
Now, the slightly older, smaller 240hp 1995 era M3, now, ....there you're talking a potential race!!! (I think my TC'd car is a bit faster than my friends 95 M3)
Oh, and I have video of my other friend absolutely L E A V I N G me in his stock 330hp from 60 - 110mph. (i have stock gearing, and my car runs 14.17 at the track)
Perhaps the previous M3 is what LexforLife is racing??
so yes, the gs4 is already the same speed as the e36 m3. with tc and lsd it will walk away from the e36 m3 for sure
but 3 yrs after the gs400 released, bmw came out with the e46 and the story ended
02-28-05, 02:06 AM
#55
Originally Posted by RRocket
I was under the impression (mistakenly?) that the race was on a roll, not a dead stop. On a roll, a GS430 with TC and LSD would take it. On a roll, where torque plays a big factor, the GS430 has the advantage by 50TQ or so...M3 only has 262TQ. And with LSD and TC + big torque...I think the GS will beat it...
ONLY 262tq? man, number doesn't mean everything man. the gs4 will STILL lose to the m3 at all speed under 100 or even 120 imho. sit in and drive a m3 and see how fast it is in all pick up speed. tq number is just at crank. gear ratio and stuff can change how the car pulls, even staying at the same tq value. just like how the supra tt lsd help the gs4 in pulling the car harder, even with the same tq value
and for the record, if i remember right, the m3 gear ratio is like 4.2x? someone correct me, but i beleive it's a lot more aggressive than the gs4. the m3 engine revs up VERY FAST
02-28-05, 02:08 AM
#56
Originally Posted by rominl
umm, for those who remember the history of gs... back in 98 when the gs400 was first relesaed, it was advertised as the "fastest sedan in the whole wrold". that was true coz' the car was A TAD faster than the 4 door m3 sedan at that time....
so yes, the gs4 is already the same speed as the e36 m3. with tc and lsd it will walk away from the e36 m3 for sure
but 3 yrs after the gs400 released, bmw came out with the e46 and the story ended
so yes, the gs4 is already the same speed as the e36 m3. with tc and lsd it will walk away from the e36 m3 for sure
but 3 yrs after the gs400 released, bmw came out with the e46 and the story ended
02-28-05, 02:14 AM
#57
Originally Posted by CinFulxGS4
IMHO...
The M3 only has 30 more horses... with 40lbs less torque... Compared to a bone stock GS400. Give the GS the SRT intake (if performs as advertised), TC, LSD, Lightweight 17 inch wheels and a small weight diet and I can't believe so many people question the close possibiblity of this race. The M3 comes in at 3400lbs, not really a lightweight by any means but 300lbs lighter than the GS. It's only + (and it is a big one) is the manual tranny but is only a + if the driver knows how to drive the M3. I would bet that any modded GS on this board similar to what I mentioned above could keep a stock 05 M3 at bay on the street with just the hit and bieng in the right gear whether the M3 has a good driver or not...
and we are talking about GS400's that are 5 years or more older than the M3.
Disclaimer
As long as the M3 has 2 buddies in it or 1 300lb guy.
Just Kidding, of course in street racing these kind of factors are very typical.
The M3 only has 30 more horses... with 40lbs less torque... Compared to a bone stock GS400. Give the GS the SRT intake (if performs as advertised), TC, LSD, Lightweight 17 inch wheels and a small weight diet and I can't believe so many people question the close possibiblity of this race. The M3 comes in at 3400lbs, not really a lightweight by any means but 300lbs lighter than the GS. It's only + (and it is a big one) is the manual tranny but is only a + if the driver knows how to drive the M3. I would bet that any modded GS on this board similar to what I mentioned above could keep a stock 05 M3 at bay on the street with just the hit and bieng in the right gear whether the M3 has a good driver or not...
and we are talking about GS400's that are 5 years or more older than the M3.
Disclaimer
As long as the M3 has 2 buddies in it or 1 300lb guy.
Just Kidding, of course in street racing these kind of factors are very typical.
and one thing i wanna stressed (that couple other members have stated) is that throw out the driver, that's for no comparisons. we are talking about car capabilities here.
and don't give me the history of the gs400 being 5 yrs older than the m3..... no one cares..... loss is loss, heck i am sure a ferrari from the museum will probably lose to my gs4. oh yeah baby i win a ferrari..... makes no sense man. @+@
02-28-05, 02:15 AM
#58
Originally Posted by CinFulxGS4
I guess we just need to figure out if "run for their money" is literal or does it mean "smoked","raped", or "eating one's lunch"?
I would say do this to your GS
1. Keep 17's, get lightweight SSR Comps.
2. Don't go crazy with Suspension mods (added weight)
3. Loose the spare
4. Get a Carbon Fiber hood and Trunk
5. Do the throttle bypass mod and install TOMS thermostat.
6. SRT intake
7. TOM GS Barrel exhaust
8. TC
9. LSD
Should make running a M3 lots of fun. Adding a 75 shot of juice would lock it up 4 ya.
I would say do this to your GS
1. Keep 17's, get lightweight SSR Comps.
2. Don't go crazy with Suspension mods (added weight)
3. Loose the spare
4. Get a Carbon Fiber hood and Trunk
5. Do the throttle bypass mod and install TOMS thermostat.
6. SRT intake
7. TOM GS Barrel exhaust
8. TC
9. LSD
Should make running a M3 lots of fun. Adding a 75 shot of juice would lock it up 4 ya.
02-28-05, 08:41 AM
#59
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Ok got off the phone this morning with a guy named Phil at SFP(South Florida Performance). He said my best bet would be to do a engine swap with a Supra engine, 400hp at the wheels easy. He said it would cost around 8-10k with everything. Engine, tranny/6 speed AEM computer pretty much everything I could ask. He said the engines come from Japan with about 30k miles. They do all the tuning. That would be kind of nutts having a a 6 speed GS430. He told me I would be better off spending my money on an engine with more hp capability.
Anyway I thought that was interesting. I asked him what about my old engine he said ebay LOL
Anyway I thought that was interesting. I asked him what about my old engine he said ebay LOL
02-28-05, 09:14 AM
#60
Originally Posted by Motu1
Ok got off the phone this morning with a guy named Phil at SFP(South Florida Performance). He said my best bet would be to do a engine swap with a Supra engine, 400hp at the wheels easy. He said it would cost around 8-10k with everything. Engine, tranny/6 speed AEM computer pretty much everything I could ask. He said the engines come from Japan with about 30k miles. They do all the tuning. That would be kind of nutts having a a 6 speed GS430. He told me I would be better off spending my money on an engine with more hp capability.
Anyway I thought that was interesting. I asked him what about my old engine he said ebay LOL
Anyway I thought that was interesting. I asked him what about my old engine he said ebay LOL
2. Supra engines ARE capable of more HP
3. For 10K call SRT and see what they can offer in a stage 1 turbo setup.
4. Call the guy back at South Florida Performance and ask him what a 75 shot of NoS will run you. (less expensive, safe if done right, power only when you need it)
Good luck Motu1, just keep in mind if you go the swap route your daily driving reliablity will most likely be out the window. Best bet for a daily driver is to do what you can with what you already have to work with.