540 Bmw Vs Gs400
05-31-01, 08:01 PM
#16
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people can be so ignorant sometime.
the only thing that lexus lacks right now on the IS300 is a manual tranny. stock vs stock, auto vs auto, is300 vs 330 at a red light race, they are bumper to bumper, proven time and again. is300's steering feel is also better. and the braking....no need ot say anything. as for styling, that's a matter of opinion.
the only thing that lexus lacks right now on the IS300 is a manual tranny. stock vs stock, auto vs auto, is300 vs 330 at a red light race, they are bumper to bumper, proven time and again. is300's steering feel is also better. and the braking....no need ot say anything. as for styling, that's a matter of opinion.
05-31-01, 09:02 PM
#17
I myself think the IS300 looks really good from the front. And the behind looks good too, except that so many people copy it that I restrain away from the IS300 because of that very reason. People who don't notice my car well won't say I have a nice Lexus, they will say, "nice clear lights, what kinda car is that?".
I wish Lexus had put some sort of patent on their clear tail lights !!!
Almost every bmw looks ugly to me, EXCEPT the new 3 series, for some reason they look pretty good to me, from every angle, and they seem to have just a bit more of a grown up look than the IS. But then IS is a Lexus and the interior of the IS is very very nice!
I wish Lexus had put some sort of patent on their clear tail lights !!!
Almost every bmw looks ugly to me, EXCEPT the new 3 series, for some reason they look pretty good to me, from every angle, and they seem to have just a bit more of a grown up look than the IS. But then IS is a Lexus and the interior of the IS is very very nice!
05-31-01, 09:19 PM
#18
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Kerr,
I'm also in the process of shopping for a new car, and faced the tough choice between the BMW 540 and the GS430. For the past 3 years, I have been driving a '98 GS300 which has been an ABSOLUTE PLEASURE to drive every time I step into the car, but unfortunately, the lease will expire in August. Since I can now afford it, I plan to upgrade my car and was deciding between the 540 and the GS430 just like you.
I test drove a BMW 540 for the first time 3 weeks ago. In fact, over the course of 2 days I test drove the BMW 4 separate times! This includes the 540 6-speed w/sport suspension, 540 automatic, and 530. And the reason for all my craziness? I was just IMPRESSED by how well the BMW drives and handles. The steering is so much more responsive than a stock GS300 or GS430, and you can't beat the cornering ability. There IS a reason why BMW cars are considered ULTIMATE driving machines!!
I've also always admired the aggressive look of BMW's, especially from the front. (But I have to admit that I don't think much of the way 540's look from the rear--just too ordinary, if you ask me) Driving a BMW certainly gives you a notch up in the prestige department. And the resale value of a BMW? Much better than a Lexus.
I've been amazed just how well a used 1998 BMW 540 sells for compared to a comparable GS400.
But despite all of the things I've mentioned, I've decided to go with a GS430 (even though it will almost be the same car I've been driving!). Here are my reasons:
1. LESS-THAN REFINED BMW INTERIOR. I was frankly disappointed by the ordinary, cheap-looking interior, and would expect more from a $50K+ luxury car. The leather was also just not as comfortable or as nice-looking compared to a Lexus.
2. SMOOTH LEXUS RIDE. I guess I really am a die-hard Lexus owner, because I love the smooth comfortable ride of the GS. And after joining this forum, I've found out how I can do some simple (and rather inexpensive) after-market mods to give my GS the kind of handling that I appreciated in the BMW! This without sacrificing the smooth Lexus ride!!
3. BETTER LEXUS NAV. I didn't directly test this myself, but I've read from many others that the Lexus NAV has much better features and is easier to use than the BMW's. This may or may not be important to you.
4. LEXUS LESS EXPENSIVE. Let's face it. BMW's are way over-priced and you get alot more for your money with a Lexus. I can still do all the mods I plan to do on my GS to get the BMW handling while keeping the Lexus ride FOR LESS MONEY THAN A 540.
5. UBIQUITOUS 5-SERIES. I have to agree with the others that a GS gets far more looks than a 540, or any 5-series. A 540 is nothing special in appearance, and you see them everywhere, especially in So. Cal. You put in some mods and alot more people will be looking at your car!
6. LEXUS QUALITY. I have had nothing but perfect reliability from my GS, which is the experience of most Lexus owners. On the other hand, BMW is notorious for somewhat less-than-stellar quality, and breakdowns that will also break your bank account in order to pay for the repairs. Why would I want to risk that? You definitely need to think about this if you're considering buying a used BMW. A Lexus GS will cost you a lot less money to repair than a 540.
7. IMPECCABLE LEXUS SERVICE. Of all the things I've listed, believe it or not, this was the one thing I was most afraid of losing. I have never been less than completely satisfied and utterly impressed with my Lexus service over the past 3 years. This is their ultimate trademark in the auto industry!! And I know that BMW service will not be able to compete with that. Why would I want to give that up? You especially need to consider this since you will be relying on quality service to keep your used car running smoothly for years!
Sorry if I was too long-winded, but hope this helps . . . . BTW both cars are quality cars and you really can't go totally wrong with either one.
Good luck shopping!
I'm also in the process of shopping for a new car, and faced the tough choice between the BMW 540 and the GS430. For the past 3 years, I have been driving a '98 GS300 which has been an ABSOLUTE PLEASURE to drive every time I step into the car, but unfortunately, the lease will expire in August. Since I can now afford it, I plan to upgrade my car and was deciding between the 540 and the GS430 just like you.
I test drove a BMW 540 for the first time 3 weeks ago. In fact, over the course of 2 days I test drove the BMW 4 separate times! This includes the 540 6-speed w/sport suspension, 540 automatic, and 530. And the reason for all my craziness? I was just IMPRESSED by how well the BMW drives and handles. The steering is so much more responsive than a stock GS300 or GS430, and you can't beat the cornering ability. There IS a reason why BMW cars are considered ULTIMATE driving machines!!
I've also always admired the aggressive look of BMW's, especially from the front. (But I have to admit that I don't think much of the way 540's look from the rear--just too ordinary, if you ask me) Driving a BMW certainly gives you a notch up in the prestige department. And the resale value of a BMW? Much better than a Lexus.
I've been amazed just how well a used 1998 BMW 540 sells for compared to a comparable GS400.
But despite all of the things I've mentioned, I've decided to go with a GS430 (even though it will almost be the same car I've been driving!). Here are my reasons:
1. LESS-THAN REFINED BMW INTERIOR. I was frankly disappointed by the ordinary, cheap-looking interior, and would expect more from a $50K+ luxury car. The leather was also just not as comfortable or as nice-looking compared to a Lexus.
2. SMOOTH LEXUS RIDE. I guess I really am a die-hard Lexus owner, because I love the smooth comfortable ride of the GS. And after joining this forum, I've found out how I can do some simple (and rather inexpensive) after-market mods to give my GS the kind of handling that I appreciated in the BMW! This without sacrificing the smooth Lexus ride!!
3. BETTER LEXUS NAV. I didn't directly test this myself, but I've read from many others that the Lexus NAV has much better features and is easier to use than the BMW's. This may or may not be important to you.
4. LEXUS LESS EXPENSIVE. Let's face it. BMW's are way over-priced and you get alot more for your money with a Lexus. I can still do all the mods I plan to do on my GS to get the BMW handling while keeping the Lexus ride FOR LESS MONEY THAN A 540.
5. UBIQUITOUS 5-SERIES. I have to agree with the others that a GS gets far more looks than a 540, or any 5-series. A 540 is nothing special in appearance, and you see them everywhere, especially in So. Cal. You put in some mods and alot more people will be looking at your car!
6. LEXUS QUALITY. I have had nothing but perfect reliability from my GS, which is the experience of most Lexus owners. On the other hand, BMW is notorious for somewhat less-than-stellar quality, and breakdowns that will also break your bank account in order to pay for the repairs. Why would I want to risk that? You definitely need to think about this if you're considering buying a used BMW. A Lexus GS will cost you a lot less money to repair than a 540.
7. IMPECCABLE LEXUS SERVICE. Of all the things I've listed, believe it or not, this was the one thing I was most afraid of losing. I have never been less than completely satisfied and utterly impressed with my Lexus service over the past 3 years. This is their ultimate trademark in the auto industry!! And I know that BMW service will not be able to compete with that. Why would I want to give that up? You especially need to consider this since you will be relying on quality service to keep your used car running smoothly for years!
Sorry if I was too long-winded, but hope this helps . . . . BTW both cars are quality cars and you really can't go totally wrong with either one.
Good luck shopping!
06-01-01, 06:44 AM
#19
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I too battled between 98 540i sport and the 98 GS4 I am driving now.
Lower maintenance cost on the GS
Quicker Low end
Better instrument setup, not as antiquated
All personal choice and how cheap you can find either
Lower maintenance cost on the GS
Quicker Low end
Better instrument setup, not as antiquated
All personal choice and how cheap you can find either
06-01-01, 07:21 AM
#20
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I think it's been pretty well captured by now...
BMW 540i
+ with sport package it handles much better than a stock GS
+ better sounding stock exhaust setup
+ available stick shift
+ cool looking front light rings on 01s
+ good resale value
- looking dated (changing this year I think)
- lame navigation system
- lame audio
- weak interior ergonomics
- spotty reliabillity, especially electronics/electrical
- drivers/owners are often arrogant jerks on the road! (couldn't resist)
- arrogant dealers
- generally bad service
- about $5K more expensive new
GS
+ very smooth
+ very reliable
+ very quiet
+ great ergonomics
+ great audio
+ ClubLexus!
- love it or hate it styling
- no factory sport package (why doesn't Lexus promote L-Tuned more!?)
- stock steering too sloppy on GS4s
- too much wheel gap with stock suspension
- weaker resale value
BMW 540i
+ with sport package it handles much better than a stock GS
+ better sounding stock exhaust setup
+ available stick shift
+ cool looking front light rings on 01s
+ good resale value
- looking dated (changing this year I think)
- lame navigation system
- lame audio
- weak interior ergonomics
- spotty reliabillity, especially electronics/electrical
- drivers/owners are often arrogant jerks on the road! (couldn't resist)
- arrogant dealers
- generally bad service
- about $5K more expensive new
GS
+ very smooth
+ very reliable
+ very quiet
+ great ergonomics
+ great audio
+ ClubLexus!
- love it or hate it styling
- no factory sport package (why doesn't Lexus promote L-Tuned more!?)
- stock steering too sloppy on GS4s
- too much wheel gap with stock suspension
- weaker resale value
06-01-01, 08:39 AM
#21
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only 2 things I disagree about with bitkahuna about:
1) love it or hate it styling
I've never EVER heard someone, either in the press or in general say " I hate what they've done with the GS" or even imply that the car is ugly or a serious design embarrassment. Some might think it's too daring for their subtle tastes, but I find it hard to believe that anyone couldn't find something positive about the look of the car
2) resale value
Granted, I know this is a fact that Lexus has a lower resale value than BMW, but I feel the satisfaction one receives from the ownership experience, along with the dealership experience, and their overall quality and reliability far outweighs any money lost over a period of time. BMW's better hold their value when you take into consideration all the little annoyances that come with owning one. Most Lexus owners simply don't turn their car in year after year considering the model changes are minimal throughout the 5 year or so lifecycle, they tend to hold on to them longer simply because of the lack of aggravation they provide. So when you do sell or trade the car, the pain is minimal and all but forgotten about once you get behind the wheel of your new Lexus.
1) love it or hate it styling
I've never EVER heard someone, either in the press or in general say " I hate what they've done with the GS" or even imply that the car is ugly or a serious design embarrassment. Some might think it's too daring for their subtle tastes, but I find it hard to believe that anyone couldn't find something positive about the look of the car
2) resale value
Granted, I know this is a fact that Lexus has a lower resale value than BMW, but I feel the satisfaction one receives from the ownership experience, along with the dealership experience, and their overall quality and reliability far outweighs any money lost over a period of time. BMW's better hold their value when you take into consideration all the little annoyances that come with owning one. Most Lexus owners simply don't turn their car in year after year considering the model changes are minimal throughout the 5 year or so lifecycle, they tend to hold on to them longer simply because of the lack of aggravation they provide. So when you do sell or trade the car, the pain is minimal and all but forgotten about once you get behind the wheel of your new Lexus.
06-01-01, 09:04 AM
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From personal experience with a BMW M3 and my new GS430. Almost everything is more likable on a GS the two cars are not really comparable but quality on the M3 is very poor. Its a convertible so more problems there but even little thing like the tweeter (speaker) in the door its been cracked and replaced 5 times! (its cracked right now too) The radio volume control **** broke off and it took them 2 months for them to replace, and the last time it was in the shop to fix the electric seat (which has been broken twice and cost over $500 to fix each time) they had it for TWO months to fix it yes we had a 99 328i, that had a broken sunroof, for a loaner the whole time but its not hte same. When we got the car back the back seat had a HUGE rip in it, we brought it back to find out that water was in the space where the top sits when down. The water leaked on to both the back seats and the dealership denies blame. The leather now crumbles in your hand. After threatening to hire a lawyer they've decided to go half on the price to replace the seats (just the bottom portion) I won't even get started on the convertible top!!
Just my experience with the "ultimate driving machine"
Just my experience with the "ultimate driving machine"
06-01-01, 12:10 PM
#23
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Thanks for all the input.
I don't know where to start. When I first started driving my father put me in my moms old 93? (first year of new body style) 325IS. That car was a love a hate relationship. My friends and family loved the car and felt safe with me driving it however at 16 you cant have a lot of fun in a automatic with 170hp. Moving on a few years, went i started college my dad picked up a used 89 750il for a doctors wife when he passed away for $10,000. I drove that car for about two years when a guy at the gas station said ill give $15,000 for your car. Needless to say SOLD. After college i started working for a insurance company driving a lot...... Anyway i picked up a 93 SC400 at a salvage sale over in Tennessee. The car was a theft recovery car with a 179K miles and would still fly. I took it to the Lexus dealer and they said the heads have never been adjusted and it would cost 2800 for new heads. Well I only paid $3000 for the car so needless to say i drove it till it quit. 228K ,miles. Some where in there I decided to get married. Well she finished school and we have set the date. Now this is where the BMW or LEXUS comes into play. Right now i have a 67 corvette convertible that was the old mans. So it will not be going anywhere. My other car is a 98 Toyota Supra turbo that is making 480hp(crank) 495tq and is a 6 speed. She cant drive a stick, that and im not sure i would want her in a car with that much power. My daily driver is a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee that I have lifted, It has the winch bumper, roof racks, cb antenna's, and off road tire. ( she hates it). Which im sure you all know how much a Jeep deprecates. It might be worth $10K on trade in but I drive 220 miles a day so i the way i see it I can not replace it with a car that cost $10K
All she really wants is a nice sedan with leather, nice stereo, nice wheels etc etc. The car she has now is 88 Chevy beretta, (POS) so anything is nicer than that. When we started looking around she really liked the IS300,(so do I, but when we start a family it might be two small) but im not going to pay $35,000 for IS300 when you can get a used GS400 for that.
I guess it all comes down to this. I don't want a 800+ a month car payment so if we go with a newer used BMW, Lexus, or Benz scratch that no Benz I will probably have to sell the supra.
I don't know where to start. When I first started driving my father put me in my moms old 93? (first year of new body style) 325IS. That car was a love a hate relationship. My friends and family loved the car and felt safe with me driving it however at 16 you cant have a lot of fun in a automatic with 170hp. Moving on a few years, went i started college my dad picked up a used 89 750il for a doctors wife when he passed away for $10,000. I drove that car for about two years when a guy at the gas station said ill give $15,000 for your car. Needless to say SOLD. After college i started working for a insurance company driving a lot...... Anyway i picked up a 93 SC400 at a salvage sale over in Tennessee. The car was a theft recovery car with a 179K miles and would still fly. I took it to the Lexus dealer and they said the heads have never been adjusted and it would cost 2800 for new heads. Well I only paid $3000 for the car so needless to say i drove it till it quit. 228K ,miles. Some where in there I decided to get married. Well she finished school and we have set the date. Now this is where the BMW or LEXUS comes into play. Right now i have a 67 corvette convertible that was the old mans. So it will not be going anywhere. My other car is a 98 Toyota Supra turbo that is making 480hp(crank) 495tq and is a 6 speed. She cant drive a stick, that and im not sure i would want her in a car with that much power. My daily driver is a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee that I have lifted, It has the winch bumper, roof racks, cb antenna's, and off road tire. ( she hates it). Which im sure you all know how much a Jeep deprecates. It might be worth $10K on trade in but I drive 220 miles a day so i the way i see it I can not replace it with a car that cost $10K
All she really wants is a nice sedan with leather, nice stereo, nice wheels etc etc. The car she has now is 88 Chevy beretta, (POS) so anything is nicer than that. When we started looking around she really liked the IS300,(so do I, but when we start a family it might be two small) but im not going to pay $35,000 for IS300 when you can get a used GS400 for that.
I guess it all comes down to this. I don't want a 800+ a month car payment so if we go with a newer used BMW, Lexus, or Benz scratch that no Benz I will probably have to sell the supra.
06-01-01, 12:10 PM
#24
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I've never EVER heard someone, either in the press or in general say " I hate what they've done with the GS" or even imply that the car is ugly or a serious design embarrassment. Some might think it's too daring for their subtle tastes, but I find it hard to believe that anyone couldn't find something positive about the look of the car
I'm actually a huge fan of the 540i and I used to lust after the //M5, but I'm also just an overall auto fanatic. My wife drives a Z3 and I think it's gorgeous. If BMW: a) had a decent nav system; and b) had a more professional and resposive dealer in Austin, I'd probably have the M5 right now instead of my Lex.
I do think Lexus (and all of the Japanese luxury brands) does a better job on the interior than BMW (or MB or Audi or...), provides better service and reliability, etc., so I bought the Lex. I was also impressed with the aftermarket potential of the GS...
So having said all that, don't get me wrong...I'm absolutely, positively love my GS430. I just think the 5 series is great as well...
06-01-01, 01:07 PM
#25
Kerr:
Since this is a LEXUS forum, there COULD be some biased opinions here (such as styling). If you go to BMW board it'll be even more biased, NO +s for Lexus at all.
I say you actually need to drive those cars before buying, or ask people on other boards.
Since this is a LEXUS forum, there COULD be some biased opinions here (such as styling). If you go to BMW board it'll be even more biased, NO +s for Lexus at all.
I say you actually need to drive those cars before buying, or ask people on other boards.
06-01-01, 02:23 PM
#27
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LOL I was on the www.m5.com or something like that but that forum is DEAD. I posted an ad that said would like to trade 98 Twin Turbo Toyota supra for a 98+ 540, 01 M3 or a 01 M-5, However I will not pay anything over sticker. Not one response. Oh well. I two love both of the cars and would LOVE to have a M5 But there is no way in this world that would work unless i won the loto.
The person that said something about the after market of the GS400 is right on. I spent about 3 hours last night ( could not sleep) on line looking for parts for a 540. The only place i found was Dinan. and those guys have lost there mind. Computer hip. $499 20 hp. ** must have $500 trans chip to work. The they two offer a SC for there cars. $13,000 and it picked up 110 Hp. bringing it to a total with all parts installed to about $20K after you pay for the chips, and all the other jaz.
I will give BMW credit, the 01 lights are BAD ***!!!
Click on this link and look at all the mods this guys has done to his BMW, It Dynoed like 380hp.
http://www.geocities.com/jimmy540i/
I was on the www.m5.com or something like that but that forum is DEAD. I posted an ad that said would like to trade 98 Twin Turbo Toyota supra for a 98+ 540, 01 M3 or a 01 M-5, However I will not pay anything over sticker. Not one response. Oh well. I two love both of the cars and would LOVE to have a M5 But there is no way in this world that would work unless i won the loto. The person that said something about the after market of the GS400 is right on. I spent about 3 hours last night ( could not sleep) on line looking for parts for a 540. The only place i found was Dinan. and those guys have lost there mind. Computer hip. $499 20 hp. ** must have $500 trans chip to work. The they two offer a SC for there cars. $13,000 and it picked up 110 Hp. bringing it to a total with all parts installed to about $20K after you pay for the chips, and all the other jaz.
I will give BMW credit, the 01 lights are BAD ***!!!
Click on this link and look at all the mods this guys has done to his BMW, It Dynoed like 380hp.
http://www.geocities.com/jimmy540i/
06-01-01, 02:46 PM
#28
BMW has a few tuning companies such as AC S., Hamann, Hartge, MVR, etc. etc. But they're ALL OVERPRICED.
In terms of mods, performance or looks or wheels or whatever, Lexus has alot of parts available. And the GS300 has alot more than GS4 or 430 if you check out Japanese mags.
In terms of mods, performance or looks or wheels or whatever, Lexus has alot of parts available. And the GS300 has alot more than GS4 or 430 if you check out Japanese mags.
06-01-01, 03:38 PM
#29
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Like I said "subjective". I gave you my subjective opinion. I am trying to figure out what the argument is here.
The IS even looks more like a Civic than the 3 series and I would bet you the buyer for the IS is on average 5 years younger than the 3 series based on what I have seen on the street.
The IS even looks more like a Civic than the 3 series and I would bet you the buyer for the IS is on average 5 years younger than the 3 series based on what I have seen on the street.
06-01-01, 03:44 PM
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Bimmer guys know where to get stuff cheaper (Metric Mechanic, Korman, Turner Motorsports, Eurasian, Bavarian Autosport, BMP, Bekkers, etc.). You have to be willing to do a bit more work yourself rather than buying packages from the major tuners you mentioned (that would also include Dinan). H&R springs and Bilsteins are no more for a 540 than GS if you buy from the sources listed above.
As far as ECU tuning, the only real gain is the rev limit. OBDII engines already optimize power.
That guy Jimmy has basically paid for Steve Dinan's latest racecar. Dinan is very overpriced but people pay without a second thought. I have bought a few things there but try to avoid it when I can.
As far as ECU tuning, the only real gain is the rev limit. OBDII engines already optimize power.
That guy Jimmy has basically paid for Steve Dinan's latest racecar. Dinan is very overpriced but people pay without a second thought. I have bought a few things there but try to avoid it when I can.