Apexi Super Grounding Kit Installed
03-18-05, 11:44 AM
#19
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Well....this is what Apexi posted on their website....
http://www.apexi-usa.com/news.asp?ID=62
4/26/2004
A'PEX Super Ground makes 8.5 HP
We are pleased to announce that during a recent dyno test for D-Sport magazine, the new A'PEX Super Ground System made an outstanding 8.5 horse power to the wheels. Testing was conducted on a 2004 Subaru WRX STi using XS Engineering's four wheel chassis dynamometer. Previous modifications to the car consist of upgraded intake, downpipe, exhaust, and front mount intercooler. Power output was increased throughout the power band with a maximum gain of 8.5hp at 6000 RPM (400 RPM sooner than baseline max power). This test proves the real world capabilities of the Super Ground System.
For purchasing information, please contact an authorized A'PEX distributor (see "dealers" section of our website for a complete nation wide list).
Location: XS Engineering, Huntington Beach CA
Car: 2004 Subaru WRX STi
Modifications: Upgraded intake, exhaust, down pipe, front mount intercooler
MAX POWER (Baseline): 298.1 @ 6400RPM
MAX POWER with A'PEX Super Ground System: 306.6 @ 6000RPM
Power measured at all four wheels using four wheel chassis dynamometer.
http://www.apexi-usa.com/news.asp?ID=62
4/26/2004
A'PEX Super Ground makes 8.5 HP
We are pleased to announce that during a recent dyno test for D-Sport magazine, the new A'PEX Super Ground System made an outstanding 8.5 horse power to the wheels. Testing was conducted on a 2004 Subaru WRX STi using XS Engineering's four wheel chassis dynamometer. Previous modifications to the car consist of upgraded intake, downpipe, exhaust, and front mount intercooler. Power output was increased throughout the power band with a maximum gain of 8.5hp at 6000 RPM (400 RPM sooner than baseline max power). This test proves the real world capabilities of the Super Ground System.
For purchasing information, please contact an authorized A'PEX distributor (see "dealers" section of our website for a complete nation wide list).
Location: XS Engineering, Huntington Beach CA
Car: 2004 Subaru WRX STi
Modifications: Upgraded intake, exhaust, down pipe, front mount intercooler
MAX POWER (Baseline): 298.1 @ 6400RPM
MAX POWER with A'PEX Super Ground System: 306.6 @ 6000RPM
Power measured at all four wheels using four wheel chassis dynamometer.
03-18-05, 12:42 PM
#21
Originally Posted by corkycal
no flames here.
could it be that the better acceleration is due to taking off your battery cables during the install, thereby, resetting your ecu.
just a thought.
i'm glad the unit is working for you.
could it be that the better acceleration is due to taking off your battery cables during the install, thereby, resetting your ecu.
just a thought.
i'm glad the unit is working for you.
This is always a good point since your ECU will be reset if you remove the ground. You cannot make a fair impression if the ECU is reset. Sadly almost everyone who has installed this kit has disconnected the ground, so their impressions are tainted with the reset occuring at the same time as the ground kit install.
I have responded to grounding kit posts for a long time already and I will say the same thing here again.
Threads like this rarely accomplish any consensus. There are always doubters. The ONLY people who can provide worthy input are those who have tried it. The doubters are usually the ones that haven't.
We can talk electrical theory all day as well. Again, most people will quote magazines or other threads they've read on the subject or state an opinion with nothing to back it up.
With that said, here's a suggestion that I have also posted in the past.
It is much easier to tell a loss in performance then it is to tell a gain in performance.
So anyone who has a grounding kit, APEX or otherwise, can perform this test.
After having had the kit installed for a few months and driving the car agressively, try disconnecting the main ground connection located at the firewall near the battery. You don't need to remove all the grounding wires to perform this test, you just need to disconnect one end of the wires to disable their effectiveness.
If you follow what I've said, you won't need to disconnect the factory battery ground and so your ECU will not get reset. This last point is very important to follow or the experiment will not be valid.
Tape up the exposed terminal ends of the grounding kit and go take the car out for a drive.
If there is any worthwile improvement from the grounding kit, you should be able to noticably tell a loss in power, acceleration, tranny shift, whatever the claims have been.
No one has tried this to my knowledge.
So that's my challenge to those posting here.
Someone please do the above test and contribute something of value to this grounding kit topic that has beaten to death, over and over over for YEARS and to date we have no conclusive evidence, good, bad or otherwise.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 03-18-05 at 12:47 PM.
03-18-05, 12:48 PM
#22
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
I can at least help dispel the resetting the ECU making a difference in power to the rear wheels.... At two different dates on two different dynos, I have reset my ECU in between runs with no appreciable difference in the dyno runs out for my car. This is pre-supercharger.
When I reset my own ECU, my butt-dynometer feels the car is faster, but who knows if thats mental, or just harder shifts/ slightly higher RPM allowed before shift. Doesn't make more power though IMO
When I reset my own ECU, my butt-dynometer feels the car is faster, but who knows if thats mental, or just harder shifts/ slightly higher RPM allowed before shift. Doesn't make more power though IMO
03-18-05, 12:59 PM
#23
Originally Posted by RMMGS4
This is always a good point since your ECU will be reset if you remove the ground. You cannot make a fair impression if the ECU is reset. Sadly almost everyone who has installed this kit has disconnected the ground, so their impressions are tainted with the reset occuring at the same time as the ground kit install.
I have responded to grounding kit posts for a long time already and I will say the same thing here again.
Threads like this rarely accomplish any consensus. There are always doubters. The ONLY people who can provide worthy input are those who have tried it. The doubters are usually the ones that haven't.
We can talk electrical theory all day as well. Again, most people will quote magazines or other threads they've read on the subject or state an opinion with nothing to back it up.
With that said, here's a suggestion that I have also posted in the past.
It is much easier to tell a loss in performance then it is to tell a gain in performance.
So anyone who has a grounding kit, APEX or otherwise, can perform this test.
After having had the kit installed for a few months and driving the car agressively, try disconnecting the main ground connection located at the firewall near the battery. You don't need to remove all the grounding wires to perform this test, you just need to disconnect one end of the wires to disable their effectiveness.
If you follow what I've said, you won't need to disconnect the factory battery ground and so your ECU will not get reset. This last point is very important to follow or the experiment will not be valid.
Tape up the exposed terminal ends of the grounding kit and go take the car out for a drive.
If there is any worthwile improvement from the grounding kit, you should be able to noticably tell a loss in power, acceleration, tranny shift, whatever the claims have been.
No one has tried this to my knowledge.
So that's my challenge to those posting here.
Someone please do the above test and contribute something of value to this grounding kit topic that has beaten to death, over and over over for YEARS and to date we have no conclusive evidence, good, bad or otherwise.
I have responded to grounding kit posts for a long time already and I will say the same thing here again.
Threads like this rarely accomplish any consensus. There are always doubters. The ONLY people who can provide worthy input are those who have tried it. The doubters are usually the ones that haven't.
We can talk electrical theory all day as well. Again, most people will quote magazines or other threads they've read on the subject or state an opinion with nothing to back it up.
With that said, here's a suggestion that I have also posted in the past.
It is much easier to tell a loss in performance then it is to tell a gain in performance.
So anyone who has a grounding kit, APEX or otherwise, can perform this test.
After having had the kit installed for a few months and driving the car agressively, try disconnecting the main ground connection located at the firewall near the battery. You don't need to remove all the grounding wires to perform this test, you just need to disconnect one end of the wires to disable their effectiveness.
If you follow what I've said, you won't need to disconnect the factory battery ground and so your ECU will not get reset. This last point is very important to follow or the experiment will not be valid.
Tape up the exposed terminal ends of the grounding kit and go take the car out for a drive.
If there is any worthwile improvement from the grounding kit, you should be able to noticably tell a loss in power, acceleration, tranny shift, whatever the claims have been.
No one has tried this to my knowledge.
So that's my challenge to those posting here.
Someone please do the above test and contribute something of value to this grounding kit topic that has beaten to death, over and over over for YEARS and to date we have no conclusive evidence, good, bad or otherwise.
03-18-05, 01:01 PM
#24
Originally Posted by DaveGS4
I can at least help dispel the resetting the ECU making a difference in power to the rear wheels.... At two different dates on two different dynos, I have reset my ECU in between runs with no appreciable difference in the dyno runs out for my car. This is pre-supercharger.
When I reset my own ECU, my butt-dynometer feels the car is faster, but who knows if thats mental, or just harder shifts/ slightly higher RPM allowed before shift. Doesn't make more power though IMO
When I reset my own ECU, my butt-dynometer feels the car is faster, but who knows if thats mental, or just harder shifts/ slightly higher RPM allowed before shift. Doesn't make more power though IMO
I think this depends on how your car has been running pre-ECU-reset. Countless times my car has been running like el-crappo, mainly due to extensive highway driving with little acceleration, and I've reset the ECU and it has immediately cured the problem, becomes way quicker off-the-line. There was definitely a horsepower gain, but only back to the original level where it should have been in the first place. I think the mileage algorithm in the ECU really toasts your performance if you do a lot of highway driving, but if you don't, the more frequent accelerations keep it in check.
03-18-05, 01:12 PM
#25
please correct me if i am wrong, but i think the ecu is constantly monitoring the driver's habit. so every certain time the ecu will overwrite itself with the most "recent" driving habit of the driver. at least i think that's the case for me. if i drive like a grandpa every day, the car is just normal. but if one day i be aggressive and drive like a mad man, after 20 to 30 mins, the response of the car is noticeably different.
03-18-05, 01:29 PM
#26
Originally Posted by rominl
please correct me if i am wrong, but i think the ecu is constantly monitoring the driver's habit. so every certain time the ecu will overwrite itself with the most "recent" driving habit of the driver. at least i think that's the case for me. if i drive like a grandpa every day, the car is just normal. but if one day i be aggressive and drive like a mad man, after 20 to 30 mins, the response of the car is noticeably different.
03-18-05, 01:37 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by engin_ear
What can explain this increase in horsepower? Doesn't make much sense to me, I don't see how the grounding can make that much difference.
Look at it this way.. Lets say motor swaps... When you swap a motor and forget to connect one of the grounding points to the motor... What happens? You get sluggish response and rough idle correct? (Yes, happend to me when i was swapping motor on my CRX)
Not an increse in HP but helps your engine perform better which helps you bring out the lost HP.
03-18-05, 03:28 PM
#28
Since I haven't driven my car a lot lately, I've killed the battery. So after re-charging the battery, I definitely feel the car responding much better and feeling overall a lot faster. I'm not even looking for this change, but can I feel a significant difference and soon I realize the ECU reset probably caused it.
Dave,
As far as HP gains, not all performance gains can be measured in HP.
Changing your TC, valvebody mods, rear differential gearing have little if no effect on HP. Not sure about TQ.
You DO feel improvements with the above mods and we do measure faster 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times.
As many know, both redgs4 and myself have raced and dyno'd our cars several times. We know our cars are much faster than stock, but our dyno measurements show very little HP improvement compared to stock.
Dave,
As far as HP gains, not all performance gains can be measured in HP.
Changing your TC, valvebody mods, rear differential gearing have little if no effect on HP. Not sure about TQ.
You DO feel improvements with the above mods and we do measure faster 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times.
As many know, both redgs4 and myself have raced and dyno'd our cars several times. We know our cars are much faster than stock, but our dyno measurements show very little HP improvement compared to stock.
03-18-05, 03:57 PM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
I don't think reseting ecu affects wot power. i think it just makes car more reponsive on light throttle and maybe shifts a bit crisper.
I always wonder if the ecu can become even more aggressive from its reset point or if it can only go downhill
About the ground kit-we should all donate a dollar to Mikal and he can do a dyno run with and without extra ground hooked up for comparo.
I always wonder if the ecu can become even more aggressive from its reset point or if it can only go downhill
About the ground kit-we should all donate a dollar to Mikal and he can do a dyno run with and without extra ground hooked up for comparo.
03-18-05, 09:46 PM
#30
Originally Posted by chuckb
I don't think reseting ecu affects wot power. i think it just makes car more reponsive on light throttle and maybe shifts a bit crisper.
I always wonder if the ecu can become even more aggressive from its reset point or if it can only go downhill
About the ground kit-we should all donate a dollar to Mikal and he can do a dyno run with and without extra ground hooked up for comparo.
I always wonder if the ecu can become even more aggressive from its reset point or if it can only go downhill
About the ground kit-we should all donate a dollar to Mikal and he can do a dyno run with and without extra ground hooked up for comparo.
this is what i think. the ecu probably is just like a FIFO, that's how it keeps a history of stuff and determine your driving habit. if it's reset (blank), then you start feeding in data and it calculate your driving style. so if you start like a grandpa, the car reacts like a grandpa, and you are at the bottom of the hill already.
on the other hand, if you drive like a mad man, the car is a mad man to begin with. but say as soon as you get to the freeway and make a 6 hour trip, you car is a grandpa again.
the ecu memory size can only be so big, personally i don't think it's going to store too long of a memory on the driving style. but yes, if you want some instant change, reset the ecu is probably the best way