Need Suggestions (TC or SC)
05-22-05, 03:06 PM
#16
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i have a biased view NOW 
but i would do what im in the process of doing..
get the SC, then do the TC in a few months.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i would call and talk to eric at RMm and confirm they have it, last tiem i talked to htme they had it sitting there but that was 2 weeks or so ago..
if they have you better JUMP ION IT becuase it will be a while before they are out aggain!
but i would do what im in the process of doing..
get the SC, then do the TC in a few months.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i would call and talk to eric at RMm and confirm they have it, last tiem i talked to htme they had it sitting there but that was 2 weeks or so ago..
if they have you better JUMP ION IT becuase it will be a while before they are out aggain!
05-22-05, 04:37 PM
#17
Originally Posted by 00lexondub
if they have you better JUMP ION IT becuase it will be a while before they are out aggain!
05-23-05, 05:29 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by T.L.W.
why no LSD ?? 
If I were to get a SC for $4500 I would be able to install it myself with a couple of my buddies so the $4500 would be close to what the SC would cost me total.
If I were to get LSD and TC I would prefer to get those installed by a shop. I would install the SRT intake myself. These 3 items would run me in the neighborhood of I am guessing $3K installed right?
So is the performance gain of the SC worth an extra $1500? Is there a performance gain for the SC over the Intake, LSD, and TC?
I cannot afford SC and TC, LSD so I really need to go one route or another. Obvously the SC has more "show" factor and uniqueness than the Tranny upgrades but is it worth the extra cost?
If it is possible with SRT intake, LSD, and TC to get to 13.5 quarter times (could have sworn I read somewhere that someone acheived this) how much faster could times be with SC alone?
13.0?
Maybe I should start with the TC and then wait to pick up a used SC once someone parts out?
05-23-05, 08:53 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by CinFulxGS4
That is a good point.
If I were to get a SC for $4500 I would be able to install it myself with a couple of my buddies so the $4500 would be close to what the SC would cost me total.
If I were to get LSD and TC I would prefer to get those installed by a shop. I would install the SRT intake myself. These 3 items would run me in the neighborhood of I am guessing $3K installed right?
:
If I were to get a SC for $4500 I would be able to install it myself with a couple of my buddies so the $4500 would be close to what the SC would cost me total.
If I were to get LSD and TC I would prefer to get those installed by a shop. I would install the SRT intake myself. These 3 items would run me in the neighborhood of I am guessing $3K installed right?
:
right now the setup i have is ...RMM S/C ,Supra LSd ,P.I. Tc 2800 stall,VB upgrade, and tranny cooler ....plent of power down below ..havent had any problems with the Rev Limiter so fAr
but i must say the when im on the Highway and i need to pass somebody ..there is more than enough power there to do it
05-23-05, 09:51 AM
#22
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I just went through this exact dilemma
I 'jumped' on the last RMM SC, then cancelled my order a day later (I'm not even sure they refunded my money yet - credit card stamemnt has not arrived)! So unless someone else has bought it in the last 3 weeks, it's still available. BTW, it's not put together yet - RMM still has to order the SC from Vortech, which they will only do once you pay for it.
Anyway, I ended up going with the TC and LSD. Is the car as fast as it would be with the SC? No way! BUT...
It depends what you want. If your're into racing other people on the street or if you take the dragstrip regularly, get the SC. It will give you bragging rights. Personally, I'm getting too old for that. Been there, done that.
What I was looking for was more fun from my current daily driver - the TC and LSD delivered this in spades!! The car is almost too quick on the street now - it will spin the tires without hesitation and can get you into trouble if you're not careful. Is it really that fast? I don't think so - I suspect even with an intake you will have trouble breaking into the 13s, but it FEELS much faster.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and in regards to price - even if you take the LSD to your favorite mechanic, it will only cost you about 100 bucks to install. It is easy, but I would not attempt it without a lift, air tools and strong helpers after watching them do it). The TC maybe $400-500, plus a tranny cooler. So overall the savings over the SC are not significant, especially if you're willing to try installing the SC yourself.
But, there is a lack of clarity on this forum and on speaking with RMM regarding need for tuning with the SC, including even the correct injector sizing with the different pulleys. Plus, some have had their tranny fry with the added power. And others say that the VVTi engine is simply not a good substrate for FI (that being said, at least 24 other guys have done this mod and have had good results, so take this with a grain of salt). Finally, it is arguably riskier than the TC/LSD combo, and you will not pass smog inspection unless you know a guy... This for only 13.5 in the quarter.
So it was not a 'no brainer' for me, but it may well be for you.
Anyway, I ended up going with the TC and LSD. Is the car as fast as it would be with the SC? No way! BUT...
It depends what you want. If your're into racing other people on the street or if you take the dragstrip regularly, get the SC. It will give you bragging rights. Personally, I'm getting too old for that. Been there, done that.
What I was looking for was more fun from my current daily driver - the TC and LSD delivered this in spades!! The car is almost too quick on the street now - it will spin the tires without hesitation and can get you into trouble if you're not careful. Is it really that fast? I don't think so - I suspect even with an intake you will have trouble breaking into the 13s, but it FEELS much faster.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and in regards to price - even if you take the LSD to your favorite mechanic, it will only cost you about 100 bucks to install. It is easy, but I would not attempt it without a lift, air tools and strong helpers after watching them do it). The TC maybe $400-500, plus a tranny cooler. So overall the savings over the SC are not significant, especially if you're willing to try installing the SC yourself.
But, there is a lack of clarity on this forum and on speaking with RMM regarding need for tuning with the SC, including even the correct injector sizing with the different pulleys. Plus, some have had their tranny fry with the added power. And others say that the VVTi engine is simply not a good substrate for FI (that being said, at least 24 other guys have done this mod and have had good results, so take this with a grain of salt). Finally, it is arguably riskier than the TC/LSD combo, and you will not pass smog inspection unless you know a guy... This for only 13.5 in the quarter.
So it was not a 'no brainer' for me, but it may well be for you.
05-23-05, 06:52 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by nicknace
This for only 13.5 in the quarter.
05-23-05, 07:13 PM
#24
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best time i ever got at a local track in los angeles (actually carlsbad - right about at sea level) before i put on the rmm s/c was a 14.4 (that was with just the srt intake, pi t/c and nitto extreme drag radials) i had the stock exhaust and stock diff...it's a pretty difficult track for rwd cars to get traction...my 60's were always between 2.2 to 2.3.
at the same track with similar tires, with the rmm s/c (3.33 pulley - approx. 340hp to the wheels) i ran consistent 13.3's at 103. i never made it back after i dropped a few pulleys...at one point before i sold the kit i had it dynoed at xs engineering and it made 400 hp to the wheels...it may have been able to crack the high 12's then, but i never got a chance to get down there (the track is about 140 miles from my house...and i really do not like lacr in palmdale).
i'm definitely planning to get into the mid to low 12's with my turbo kit...one of these days i'll get the project started (still waiting for rods...)
at the same track with similar tires, with the rmm s/c (3.33 pulley - approx. 340hp to the wheels) i ran consistent 13.3's at 103. i never made it back after i dropped a few pulleys...at one point before i sold the kit i had it dynoed at xs engineering and it made 400 hp to the wheels...it may have been able to crack the high 12's then, but i never got a chance to get down there (the track is about 140 miles from my house...and i really do not like lacr in palmdale).
i'm definitely planning to get into the mid to low 12's with my turbo kit...one of these days i'll get the project started (still waiting for rods...)
05-26-05, 05:38 AM
#25
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There ya go
Look, my other point is that there will always be someone faster than you, so you really need to figure what you will be happy with. My 2002 TransAm runs high 12s all day long with minor bolt on mods, and the other day I got spanked on the street by a 1980s stock looking Buick. Buy what you think might make you happy - just be realistic.
05-26-05, 09:28 PM
#26
Originally Posted by nicknace
Look, my other point is that there will always be someone faster than you, so you really need to figure what you will be happy with. My 2002 TransAm runs high 12s all day long with minor bolt on mods, and the other day I got spanked on the street by a 1980s stock looking Buick. Buy what you think might make you happy - just be realistic.
05-26-05, 10:15 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
Well, I have to chime in on this one since I have had both the TC AND the S/C for quite a while.
There is no comparison IMO. The TC even with the intake AND LSD will definetly be an improvement over stock, but is not as much an improvement as the S/C kit.
BTW, all these numbers that people are bouncing back and forth are really unrealistic. 12.5 from 340rwhp AND 4000 lbs????? You gotta be smoking some good stuff. Obviously, you don't realize just how fast 12.5 is let alone for a 4000lb car. Let me put it this way, my friend's Supra that is BUILT ran 12.7 on her street tune of about 16psi, which is somewhere around 450-500rwhp AND she's substantially lighter. So how in the world do you figure a heavy *** car like ours is going to jump to that with 150 LESS horses and probably 500lbs more???? Physics don't work that way my friend. Too many people that have never been to the track and ran think that low ET's are "easy". That's far from reality folks. I've seen S/C'd Cobras that have over 400 HP struggle to get in the low 13's at many tracks. You also have to factor some tracks are super stupidly bad because of everything from altitude to the way they prep. Trust me, if I ever get into the 12's, even 12.99, I'll be extatic. My best so far was 13.3 @ 108 @ 6 psi.
Also, at 6 psi I dyno'd well over 100rwhp MORE than stock. I dyno'd 249 with an SRT intake/chip and 378 with the S/C. That translates to somewhere north of 450 crank HP vs 300 Stock. It's a definite jump over stock believe me.
Now, as to the original question:
That merely depends on your budget and availability. I made a thread about someone possibly wanting to sell their S/C kit and got only one response. I was thinking people would go nuts over that. Anyway, if you have the budget and it's available, the S/C kit is awesome period. I've loved mine ever since I got it. If you have to do it in stages, go with the TC now and the S/C later when you find one. Reason? The TC only improves the effect of the S/C and it doesn't hinder it. Same goes with the LSD. Again, it will only improve the function of the S/C (as long as you go with the TRD LSD which retains the stock gearing which is what's needed to compliment the S/C).
As for tuning, don't believe the hype. Millen SAYS it needs no tuning, but that was not the case for me. It did need tuning. There were plenty of us that shared notes in those first few kits and we all seem to have the same results. The pulleys that Millen SAYS will make 10 psi, only make 6 psi. So, the starter pulley they SAY makes 6 psi, really only makes 3psi. So, a few of us have had custom pulleys made and some have even ran pulleys that even Millen said we were crazy to run because we'd get 12 psi.......Right, the most those guys ever saw was 8-9 psi MAX. So what I'm saying is that you should talk to some of the veterans of this particular kit. There are quite a few guys that have gone thru the same stuff I'm mentioning here. We paid lots of $ and did all the R&D for all you already. There are a few of us that have been helping each other and comparing notes all along. Believe me, I have a collection of pulleys, belts, and scars to prove that we have tried quite a few things Millen said COULDN'T be done. Like the BOV.
So in conclusion, I see several things that need to be taken into consideration in this thread. One is that people need to be realistic in their expectations and goals. Talk to some of the OG's that have already been where you wanna go. There is an FI registry that Dave worked hard to compose that can back up what I've said above. It even has best times for most of the FI guys here. Track times, not GTech or arm chair times. Track.
Second thing is that the TC is definetly worth it as is the S/C kit if you can get your hands on one. Question is really about your budget. If you can do both, you won't be dissapointed. If you can only do one and not the other ever, go with the S/C.
That's my long .02.
There is no comparison IMO. The TC even with the intake AND LSD will definetly be an improvement over stock, but is not as much an improvement as the S/C kit.
BTW, all these numbers that people are bouncing back and forth are really unrealistic. 12.5 from 340rwhp AND 4000 lbs????? You gotta be smoking some good stuff. Obviously, you don't realize just how fast 12.5 is let alone for a 4000lb car. Let me put it this way, my friend's Supra that is BUILT ran 12.7 on her street tune of about 16psi, which is somewhere around 450-500rwhp AND she's substantially lighter. So how in the world do you figure a heavy *** car like ours is going to jump to that with 150 LESS horses and probably 500lbs more???? Physics don't work that way my friend. Too many people that have never been to the track and ran think that low ET's are "easy". That's far from reality folks. I've seen S/C'd Cobras that have over 400 HP struggle to get in the low 13's at many tracks. You also have to factor some tracks are super stupidly bad because of everything from altitude to the way they prep. Trust me, if I ever get into the 12's, even 12.99, I'll be extatic. My best so far was 13.3 @ 108 @ 6 psi.
Also, at 6 psi I dyno'd well over 100rwhp MORE than stock. I dyno'd 249 with an SRT intake/chip and 378 with the S/C. That translates to somewhere north of 450 crank HP vs 300 Stock. It's a definite jump over stock believe me.
Now, as to the original question:
That merely depends on your budget and availability. I made a thread about someone possibly wanting to sell their S/C kit and got only one response. I was thinking people would go nuts over that. Anyway, if you have the budget and it's available, the S/C kit is awesome period. I've loved mine ever since I got it. If you have to do it in stages, go with the TC now and the S/C later when you find one. Reason? The TC only improves the effect of the S/C and it doesn't hinder it. Same goes with the LSD. Again, it will only improve the function of the S/C (as long as you go with the TRD LSD which retains the stock gearing which is what's needed to compliment the S/C).
As for tuning, don't believe the hype. Millen SAYS it needs no tuning, but that was not the case for me. It did need tuning. There were plenty of us that shared notes in those first few kits and we all seem to have the same results. The pulleys that Millen SAYS will make 10 psi, only make 6 psi. So, the starter pulley they SAY makes 6 psi, really only makes 3psi. So, a few of us have had custom pulleys made and some have even ran pulleys that even Millen said we were crazy to run because we'd get 12 psi.......Right, the most those guys ever saw was 8-9 psi MAX. So what I'm saying is that you should talk to some of the veterans of this particular kit. There are quite a few guys that have gone thru the same stuff I'm mentioning here. We paid lots of $ and did all the R&D for all you already. There are a few of us that have been helping each other and comparing notes all along. Believe me, I have a collection of pulleys, belts, and scars to prove that we have tried quite a few things Millen said COULDN'T be done. Like the BOV.
So in conclusion, I see several things that need to be taken into consideration in this thread. One is that people need to be realistic in their expectations and goals. Talk to some of the OG's that have already been where you wanna go. There is an FI registry that Dave worked hard to compose that can back up what I've said above. It even has best times for most of the FI guys here. Track times, not GTech or arm chair times. Track.
Second thing is that the TC is definetly worth it as is the S/C kit if you can get your hands on one. Question is really about your budget. If you can do both, you won't be dissapointed. If you can only do one and not the other ever, go with the S/C.
That's my long .02.
05-27-05, 04:40 AM
#28
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by jmecbr900
Well, I have to chime in on this one since I have had both the TC AND the S/C for quite a while.
There is no comparison IMO. The TC even with the intake AND LSD will definetly be an improvement over stock, but is not as much an improvement as the S/C kit.
BTW, all these numbers that people are bouncing back and forth are really unrealistic. 12.5 from 340rwhp AND 4000 lbs????? You gotta be smoking some good stuff. Obviously, you don't realize just how fast 12.5 is let alone for a 4000lb car. Let me put it this way, my friend's Supra that is BUILT ran 12.7 on her street tune of about 16psi, which is somewhere around 450-500rwhp AND she's substantially lighter. So how in the world do you figure a heavy *** car like ours is going to jump to that with 150 LESS horses and probably 500lbs more???? Physics don't work that way my friend. Too many people that have never been to the track and ran think that low ET's are "easy". That's far from reality folks. I've seen S/C'd Cobras that have over 400 HP struggle to get in the low 13's at many tracks. You also have to factor some tracks are super stupidly bad because of everything from altitude to the way they prep. Trust me, if I ever get into the 12's, even 12.99, I'll be extatic. My best so far was 13.3 @ 108 @ 6 psi.
Also, at 6 psi I dyno'd well over 100rwhp MORE than stock. I dyno'd 249 with an SRT intake/chip and 378 with the S/C. That translates to somewhere north of 450 crank HP vs 300 Stock. It's a definite jump over stock believe me.
Now, as to the original question:
That merely depends on your budget and availability. I made a thread about someone possibly wanting to sell their S/C kit and got only one response. I was thinking people would go nuts over that. Anyway, if you have the budget and it's available, the S/C kit is awesome period. I've loved mine ever since I got it. If you have to do it in stages, go with the TC now and the S/C later when you find one. Reason? The TC only improves the effect of the S/C and it doesn't hinder it. Same goes with the LSD. Again, it will only improve the function of the S/C (as long as you go with the TRD LSD which retains the stock gearing which is what's needed to compliment the S/C).
As for tuning, don't believe the hype. Millen SAYS it needs no tuning, but that was not the case for me. It did need tuning. There were plenty of us that shared notes in those first few kits and we all seem to have the same results. The pulleys that Millen SAYS will make 10 psi, only make 6 psi. So, the starter pulley they SAY makes 6 psi, really only makes 3psi. So, a few of us have had custom pulleys made and some have even ran pulleys that even Millen said we were crazy to run because we'd get 12 psi.......Right, the most those guys ever saw was 8-9 psi MAX. So what I'm saying is that you should talk to some of the veterans of this particular kit. There are quite a few guys that have gone thru the same stuff I'm mentioning here. We paid lots of $ and did all the R&D for all you already. There are a few of us that have been helping each other and comparing notes all along. Believe me, I have a collection of pulleys, belts, and scars to prove that we have tried quite a few things Millen said COULDN'T be done. Like the BOV.
So in conclusion, I see several things that need to be taken into consideration in this thread. One is that people need to be realistic in their expectations and goals. Talk to some of the OG's that have already been where you wanna go. There is an FI registry that Dave worked hard to compose that can back up what I've said above. It even has best times for most of the FI guys here. Track times, not GTech or arm chair times. Track.
Second thing is that the TC is definetly worth it as is the S/C kit if you can get your hands on one. Question is really about your budget. If you can do both, you won't be dissapointed. If you can only do one and not the other ever, go with the S/C.
That's my long .02.
There is no comparison IMO. The TC even with the intake AND LSD will definetly be an improvement over stock, but is not as much an improvement as the S/C kit.
BTW, all these numbers that people are bouncing back and forth are really unrealistic. 12.5 from 340rwhp AND 4000 lbs????? You gotta be smoking some good stuff. Obviously, you don't realize just how fast 12.5 is let alone for a 4000lb car. Let me put it this way, my friend's Supra that is BUILT ran 12.7 on her street tune of about 16psi, which is somewhere around 450-500rwhp AND she's substantially lighter. So how in the world do you figure a heavy *** car like ours is going to jump to that with 150 LESS horses and probably 500lbs more???? Physics don't work that way my friend. Too many people that have never been to the track and ran think that low ET's are "easy". That's far from reality folks. I've seen S/C'd Cobras that have over 400 HP struggle to get in the low 13's at many tracks. You also have to factor some tracks are super stupidly bad because of everything from altitude to the way they prep. Trust me, if I ever get into the 12's, even 12.99, I'll be extatic. My best so far was 13.3 @ 108 @ 6 psi.
Also, at 6 psi I dyno'd well over 100rwhp MORE than stock. I dyno'd 249 with an SRT intake/chip and 378 with the S/C. That translates to somewhere north of 450 crank HP vs 300 Stock. It's a definite jump over stock believe me.
Now, as to the original question:
That merely depends on your budget and availability. I made a thread about someone possibly wanting to sell their S/C kit and got only one response. I was thinking people would go nuts over that. Anyway, if you have the budget and it's available, the S/C kit is awesome period. I've loved mine ever since I got it. If you have to do it in stages, go with the TC now and the S/C later when you find one. Reason? The TC only improves the effect of the S/C and it doesn't hinder it. Same goes with the LSD. Again, it will only improve the function of the S/C (as long as you go with the TRD LSD which retains the stock gearing which is what's needed to compliment the S/C).
As for tuning, don't believe the hype. Millen SAYS it needs no tuning, but that was not the case for me. It did need tuning. There were plenty of us that shared notes in those first few kits and we all seem to have the same results. The pulleys that Millen SAYS will make 10 psi, only make 6 psi. So, the starter pulley they SAY makes 6 psi, really only makes 3psi. So, a few of us have had custom pulleys made and some have even ran pulleys that even Millen said we were crazy to run because we'd get 12 psi.......Right, the most those guys ever saw was 8-9 psi MAX. So what I'm saying is that you should talk to some of the veterans of this particular kit. There are quite a few guys that have gone thru the same stuff I'm mentioning here. We paid lots of $ and did all the R&D for all you already. There are a few of us that have been helping each other and comparing notes all along. Believe me, I have a collection of pulleys, belts, and scars to prove that we have tried quite a few things Millen said COULDN'T be done. Like the BOV.
So in conclusion, I see several things that need to be taken into consideration in this thread. One is that people need to be realistic in their expectations and goals. Talk to some of the OG's that have already been where you wanna go. There is an FI registry that Dave worked hard to compose that can back up what I've said above. It even has best times for most of the FI guys here. Track times, not GTech or arm chair times. Track.
Second thing is that the TC is definetly worth it as is the S/C kit if you can get your hands on one. Question is really about your budget. If you can do both, you won't be dissapointed. If you can only do one and not the other ever, go with the S/C.
That's my long .02.
This sums it up for me very well as I am unwilling to spend the $$$ for low 13's. I am more than happy to be in low 14's for less $$$. If the SC had a bigger effect on performance in just a bolt on and go application it would be an easy choice for me. Instead I would rather pony up to another car for speed/track where bigger gains can be realized from bolt on modifications.
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