Acura TL Type-S
06-26-01, 06:57 PM
#17
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I think NYCVR6 has made some excellent points. I agree the TL-S is great for the money. In fact, to me there is nothing better in that price range that presses all of my buttons. That is why I will probably be buying one in the next couple of months for my wife.
I test drove the TL-S, and it is definately pretty fast. One thing that it will never be able to provide is 310lb ft of torque. I love the torque of the smooth V8 in the GS. The TL-S is fast, but it is not 'effortless', like the GS4.
I too love the interior of the TL-S (parchment interior only). While I have the DVD, I like acura's more. It also allows you to make mods to it while driving, unlike the GS. I also like the seats more, they have more lateral support.
The GS interior (and exterior) is soo much nicer to me however. Feel the the leather on both, the GS is more substantial. Look at the switches (mirrors, windows, locks) and again the TL seems to have some very cheap componentry. And while someone might think the GS is ugly, it definately stands out. And the final problem I have with the TL is that (at least by me) they are everywhere! I may be different elsewhere, but by me I will se at least 50 TL's before I see another GS. That is no lie.
Regardless, is the GS worth 20K more then the TL? To some, yes. To me? Well, a used GS with a same as new warranty at the exact same price of a new TL is worth it...
Anyway you look at, both cars are nicer then 95% of anything on the road, IMO.
I test drove the TL-S, and it is definately pretty fast. One thing that it will never be able to provide is 310lb ft of torque. I love the torque of the smooth V8 in the GS. The TL-S is fast, but it is not 'effortless', like the GS4.
I too love the interior of the TL-S (parchment interior only). While I have the DVD, I like acura's more. It also allows you to make mods to it while driving, unlike the GS. I also like the seats more, they have more lateral support.
The GS interior (and exterior) is soo much nicer to me however. Feel the the leather on both, the GS is more substantial. Look at the switches (mirrors, windows, locks) and again the TL seems to have some very cheap componentry. And while someone might think the GS is ugly, it definately stands out. And the final problem I have with the TL is that (at least by me) they are everywhere! I may be different elsewhere, but by me I will se at least 50 TL's before I see another GS. That is no lie.
Regardless, is the GS worth 20K more then the TL? To some, yes. To me? Well, a used GS with a same as new warranty at the exact same price of a new TL is worth it...
Anyway you look at, both cars are nicer then 95% of anything on the road, IMO.
06-26-01, 09:40 PM
#19
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Nearly bought a TL
It sounds like my story is similar to many others on this board. I also thought long and hard about the Acura TL-S before I chose my GS. I looked at the base TL because of what it it offers for the price but I just couldn't swallow the Accord-grade interior (ugly fake wood, absolutely lame leather seats, door panels that didn't match the dash, 4 speaker stereo) and that oh-so-blah cookie-cutter exterior. I was moving up from a 1995 Infiniti G20T, a fairly sharp car in its own right, and I thought the TL's interior quality and exterior styling was a step down :eek: from my G.
However, when I was at the Acura dealership I checked out the 2002 TL-S. It definitely leans more to the sporty side of life in a non-descript sort of way (kind of how BMW does things). No fancy badges or cladding to speak of, which is a good thing in my opinion. There's nothing worse to me than a "sport" model that has all sorts of plastic draped off the side of the car. Yuck. So, the TL-S does make a slightly nicer statement than the TL, but it is still pretty cookie-cutter Accordish.
The interior of the TL-S was also nicer than the TL. They got rid of that ugly fake wood on the TL-S. I really liked the perforated leather seats (again, it is cheap thin leather with cheap vinyl cladding on the side and back but it looks better than the TL) and the silver guages (still looked cheaper than my G but better than the TL). Even with these improvements, the interior still didn't seem like a move up from my G20T.
In terms of the engine, the TL-S is great. In straight line acceleration the TL-S is a screamer -- very quick 0-60 and no torque steer at all. It was also very quiet on the highway (compared to the 2000 TL's, the 2002 is way quieter). The car really tracked well at speed too. I didn't get it over 80 so I don't know how well it pulls at high speeds.
However, as is with many Honda cars, the handling was just so-so. I don't know if the factory tires just suck, but the car was definitely not as fun to drive in the twisties as my G20T. Lots of body lean. Lots of tire squeal. Not a lot of feedback through the steering wheel. The TL-S was definitely an improvement over the base TL (which handled REALLY poorly...like a Cavalier), but it wasn't what it should have been. Compared to the same roads I put my G20T through, the TL-S was not at all a well handling car. Big disappointment.
Regardless, there is a reason the GS costs more than the TL. C'mon -- it's not like Lexus is gauging us for the price difference. The Lexus costs more because it is a true luxury car with much more expensive materials -- real wood, much better quality leather, better plastics, etc. In the end, the Acura is considered a "near-luxury" car, just like my Infiniti. Lexus is considered "luxury" and is classified with the best cars in the world. So...when I decided I wanted to move up in the my automotive standing, I had to eventually scratch Acura off my list. My keepers included Saab, BMW, Lexus, and Audi. You know which of these I eventually chose (and without any regret).
Don't get me wrong. The TL and TL-S is a great car for somebody who doesn't want a true luxury car. You get a quick car that looks decent and handles fair. It has a good warranty and, being a Honda, probably good build quality. But you certainly give up some of the engineering, styling, quality of materials, and "snob" appeal of the more expensive cars. To each his own...
Thx...Doug
However, when I was at the Acura dealership I checked out the 2002 TL-S. It definitely leans more to the sporty side of life in a non-descript sort of way (kind of how BMW does things). No fancy badges or cladding to speak of, which is a good thing in my opinion. There's nothing worse to me than a "sport" model that has all sorts of plastic draped off the side of the car. Yuck. So, the TL-S does make a slightly nicer statement than the TL, but it is still pretty cookie-cutter Accordish.
The interior of the TL-S was also nicer than the TL. They got rid of that ugly fake wood on the TL-S. I really liked the perforated leather seats (again, it is cheap thin leather with cheap vinyl cladding on the side and back but it looks better than the TL) and the silver guages (still looked cheaper than my G but better than the TL). Even with these improvements, the interior still didn't seem like a move up from my G20T.
In terms of the engine, the TL-S is great. In straight line acceleration the TL-S is a screamer -- very quick 0-60 and no torque steer at all. It was also very quiet on the highway (compared to the 2000 TL's, the 2002 is way quieter). The car really tracked well at speed too. I didn't get it over 80 so I don't know how well it pulls at high speeds.
However, as is with many Honda cars, the handling was just so-so. I don't know if the factory tires just suck, but the car was definitely not as fun to drive in the twisties as my G20T. Lots of body lean. Lots of tire squeal. Not a lot of feedback through the steering wheel. The TL-S was definitely an improvement over the base TL (which handled REALLY poorly...like a Cavalier), but it wasn't what it should have been. Compared to the same roads I put my G20T through, the TL-S was not at all a well handling car. Big disappointment.
Regardless, there is a reason the GS costs more than the TL. C'mon -- it's not like Lexus is gauging us for the price difference. The Lexus costs more because it is a true luxury car with much more expensive materials -- real wood, much better quality leather, better plastics, etc. In the end, the Acura is considered a "near-luxury" car, just like my Infiniti. Lexus is considered "luxury" and is classified with the best cars in the world. So...when I decided I wanted to move up in the my automotive standing, I had to eventually scratch Acura off my list. My keepers included Saab, BMW, Lexus, and Audi. You know which of these I eventually chose (and without any regret).
Don't get me wrong. The TL and TL-S is a great car for somebody who doesn't want a true luxury car. You get a quick car that looks decent and handles fair. It has a good warranty and, being a Honda, probably good build quality. But you certainly give up some of the engineering, styling, quality of materials, and "snob" appeal of the more expensive cars. To each his own...
Thx...Doug
06-26-01, 10:58 PM
#20
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By the way, my TL-S is bone stock..and will stay that way as long as i own it..I also dont think they look good modded..Besides, my real beast is my 97' GTI VR6 3.0L..
Also, i never said that the TL-S is better quality than a Lexus, because i dont believe that..I understand that Lexus has outstanding quality..This thread is also getting a lil tired...im gonna leave it here..Im gonna post some pix of my buddys gs4 soon, see whatcha guys think...Later..
Also, i never said that the TL-S is better quality than a Lexus, because i dont believe that..I understand that Lexus has outstanding quality..This thread is also getting a lil tired...im gonna leave it here..Im gonna post some pix of my buddys gs4 soon, see whatcha guys think...Later..
06-26-01, 11:01 PM
#21
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In going through all the posts one BIG point was overlooked in comparing the TL-S versus the GS...
While respectfully, the TL-S is a great blend of performance and price, no matter how FAST it is, the car is built on a Front Wheel Drive Platform. If you look at all the great sports cars and sports sedans that have SUPERIOR handling, they all have Rear Wheel Drive (eg, Porsches, Ferraris, Corvettes, Vipers, BMW's, Supras, Z's, NSX's). That is why in one of the posts, someone mentioned that handling was not awe-inspiring. Granted that the TL-S has done it's best in taking full advantage of FWD, it is still inferior to the RWD platform. The GS, incidentally, is RWD.
In my opinion, if I am going to pay over 30K for a sports sedan, it had better be RWD.
An example, I lost it once in my Integra on a two-lane road because I braked really hard and the brakes locked and the rear just started to come around. I let go of the brake and tried to steer into the skid but I could never recover in time because there is no power to the rear and slammed into the divider. Same kind of a situation but now with a Mstuang GT, hit brakes and rear starts to skid, let go of brakes, the rear grips again with a slight twitch and I am back in business fully recovered. Neither experience was pleasant BUT it convinced me that for my driving tastes, RWD is the way to go.
Brent
While respectfully, the TL-S is a great blend of performance and price, no matter how FAST it is, the car is built on a Front Wheel Drive Platform. If you look at all the great sports cars and sports sedans that have SUPERIOR handling, they all have Rear Wheel Drive (eg, Porsches, Ferraris, Corvettes, Vipers, BMW's, Supras, Z's, NSX's). That is why in one of the posts, someone mentioned that handling was not awe-inspiring. Granted that the TL-S has done it's best in taking full advantage of FWD, it is still inferior to the RWD platform. The GS, incidentally, is RWD.
In my opinion, if I am going to pay over 30K for a sports sedan, it had better be RWD.
An example, I lost it once in my Integra on a two-lane road because I braked really hard and the brakes locked and the rear just started to come around. I let go of the brake and tried to steer into the skid but I could never recover in time because there is no power to the rear and slammed into the divider. Same kind of a situation but now with a Mstuang GT, hit brakes and rear starts to skid, let go of brakes, the rear grips again with a slight twitch and I am back in business fully recovered. Neither experience was pleasant BUT it convinced me that for my driving tastes, RWD is the way to go.
Brent
06-26-01, 11:08 PM
#22
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Look Guys, it is ridiculous to compare the Acura TL-S to a GS400. Don't get me wrong, I've owned Acura's for 10 years and I think they are great cars for the money. I put 140,000 miles on my Legend, and it was still going strong when I sold it. I looked real hard at a TL before I bought my GS. I thought for the money, the TL was hard to beat! At the time, the Acura TL was around 31k. But it is just not in the same league as a Lexus. While being a great value, the fit and finish of an Acura is nowhere near the quality of a Lexus.
Being a front wheel drive car, you will always have the characteristics associated with that; torque steer under acceleration, understeering entering corners, oversteering on exiting, often lifting the inside rear tire under high speed cornering. The GS is a performance, rear wheel drive car! It makes a huge difference on handling.
If cars are judged on 0-60 times, the Acura is a hell of a deal. But in this world; you get what you pay for. And being an owner of both cars, I graduated from the Acura to a GS400. The 18k more I paid was to me, worth the money.
Being a front wheel drive car, you will always have the characteristics associated with that; torque steer under acceleration, understeering entering corners, oversteering on exiting, often lifting the inside rear tire under high speed cornering. The GS is a performance, rear wheel drive car! It makes a huge difference on handling.
If cars are judged on 0-60 times, the Acura is a hell of a deal. But in this world; you get what you pay for. And being an owner of both cars, I graduated from the Acura to a GS400. The 18k more I paid was to me, worth the money.
06-26-01, 11:18 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
The Acura isn't a bad car at all, but I just could not get over the styling. It's WAY, WAY too Accord looking. That's what I liked about the GS...doesn't look like anything else...
And I don't think the interior of the Acura is as good as the GS's. No way. My friends that have TL's and CL's are still in awe when then get inside a GS...
But performance and price wise, the TL's and CL's are hard to beat...I would buy it over a current ES...but then again, I think I would buy the Inifniti I35 over the TL or CL (I35 isn't out yet, but it's just a engine upgrade and a minor cosmetic upgrade)
And I don't think the interior of the Acura is as good as the GS's. No way. My friends that have TL's and CL's are still in awe when then get inside a GS...
But performance and price wise, the TL's and CL's are hard to beat...I would buy it over a current ES...but then again, I think I would buy the Inifniti I35 over the TL or CL (I35 isn't out yet, but it's just a engine upgrade and a minor cosmetic upgrade)
06-27-01, 06:38 AM
#24
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Performance vs. price
One thought for this thread...
A car should not be judged solely on its 0-60 times. If that were the case, then the $27,000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP should be on top of every speed enthusiast's list. At $6K less than the TL-S, it can beat it 0-60 (6.5 sec) and most likely beat it out on the top end. It has a sweet supercharged engine that pulls a lot harder than most sixes on the road.
So, if you want all-out speed and have a budget then go buy one of those GTPs. But...it's still a Pontiac.
I also seem to recall that the Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed can pull mid-6 times from 0-60. But then you have to be seen in one of those oh-so-ugly Nissans.
Thx...Doug
A car should not be judged solely on its 0-60 times. If that were the case, then the $27,000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP should be on top of every speed enthusiast's list. At $6K less than the TL-S, it can beat it 0-60 (6.5 sec) and most likely beat it out on the top end. It has a sweet supercharged engine that pulls a lot harder than most sixes on the road.
So, if you want all-out speed and have a budget then go buy one of those GTPs. But...it's still a Pontiac.
I also seem to recall that the Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed can pull mid-6 times from 0-60. But then you have to be seen in one of those oh-so-ugly Nissans.
Thx...Doug
06-27-01, 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by theanimala
I think NYCVR6 has made some excellent points. I agree the TL-S is great for the money. In fact, to me there is nothing better in that price range that presses all of my buttons. That is why I will probably be buying one in the next couple of months for my wife.
I test drove the TL-S, and it is definately pretty fast. One thing that it will never be able to provide is 310lb ft of torque. I love the torque of the smooth V8 in the GS. The TL-S is fast, but it is not 'effortless', like the GS4.
I too love the interior of the TL-S (parchment interior only). While I have the DVD, I like acura's more. It also allows you to make mods to it while driving, unlike the GS. I also like the seats more, they have more lateral support.
The GS interior (and exterior) is soo much nicer to me however. Feel the the leather on both, the GS is more substantial. Look at the switches (mirrors, windows, locks) and again the TL seems to have some very cheap componentry. And while someone might think the GS is ugly, it definately stands out. And the final problem I have with the TL is that (at least by me) they are everywhere! I may be different elsewhere, but by me I will se at least 50 TL's before I see another GS. That is no lie.
Regardless, is the GS worth 20K more then the TL? To some, yes. To me? Well, a used GS with a same as new warranty at the exact same price of a new TL is worth it...
Anyway you look at, both cars are nicer then 95% of anything on the road, IMO.
I think NYCVR6 has made some excellent points. I agree the TL-S is great for the money. In fact, to me there is nothing better in that price range that presses all of my buttons. That is why I will probably be buying one in the next couple of months for my wife.
I test drove the TL-S, and it is definately pretty fast. One thing that it will never be able to provide is 310lb ft of torque. I love the torque of the smooth V8 in the GS. The TL-S is fast, but it is not 'effortless', like the GS4.
I too love the interior of the TL-S (parchment interior only). While I have the DVD, I like acura's more. It also allows you to make mods to it while driving, unlike the GS. I also like the seats more, they have more lateral support.
The GS interior (and exterior) is soo much nicer to me however. Feel the the leather on both, the GS is more substantial. Look at the switches (mirrors, windows, locks) and again the TL seems to have some very cheap componentry. And while someone might think the GS is ugly, it definately stands out. And the final problem I have with the TL is that (at least by me) they are everywhere! I may be different elsewhere, but by me I will se at least 50 TL's before I see another GS. That is no lie.
Regardless, is the GS worth 20K more then the TL? To some, yes. To me? Well, a used GS with a same as new warranty at the exact same price of a new TL is worth it...
Anyway you look at, both cars are nicer then 95% of anything on the road, IMO.
Well said indeed. Nothing worse than driving the same car as everyone else on the road. Why not get a TL and while your at it get a Jeep Grand Cherokee so you can drive past your exact car 25 times on the way to the mall. There is a reason the Acura in 20k less, so everyone and their brother can drive one that matches.
06-27-01, 08:03 AM
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Re: Performance vs. price
Originally posted by dgangi
One thought for this thread...
A car should not be judged solely on its 0-60 times. If that were the case, then the $27,000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP should be on top of every speed enthusiast's list. At $6K less than the TL-S, it can beat it 0-60 (6.5 sec) and most likely beat it out on the top end. It has a sweet supercharged engine that pulls a lot harder than most sixes on the road.
So, if you want all-out speed and have a budget then go buy one of those GTPs. But...it's still a Pontiac.
I also seem to recall that the Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed can pull mid-6 times from 0-60. But then you have to be seen in one of those oh-so-ugly Nissans.
Thx...Doug
One thought for this thread...
A car should not be judged solely on its 0-60 times. If that were the case, then the $27,000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP should be on top of every speed enthusiast's list. At $6K less than the TL-S, it can beat it 0-60 (6.5 sec) and most likely beat it out on the top end. It has a sweet supercharged engine that pulls a lot harder than most sixes on the road.
So, if you want all-out speed and have a budget then go buy one of those GTPs. But...it's still a Pontiac.
I also seem to recall that the Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed can pull mid-6 times from 0-60. But then you have to be seen in one of those oh-so-ugly Nissans.
Thx...Doug
I don't care how hard pontiac or nissan tries, they won't catch Lexus. the 25th anniversary maxima is a nice car, quick and loaded with plastic components. "but hey look at are white display" get out of here with that crap. even the mercedes ML 55 amg SUV gets 0-60 in the mid 6's.
06-27-01, 11:05 AM
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This is a very interesting discussion. I do not own the Acura TL or the Lexus GS. I drive a 1998 Lexus SC400. I looked at and considered the GS400 because it is a wonderful car on the inside and outside. I really don't think you can compare the GS with the TL. I mean come on, there is a big price difference for a reason. The GS is a MUCH nicer car. I have to say that I do consider the TL to be an improved accord. But I also consider the ES to be an improved camry. I think comparing the TL and the ES is a much better comparison. The GS in out of both of their leagues. 
06-27-01, 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
I cannot believe this. The !@#$%^ car shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord, 45%!!!! IT IS AN ACCORD TYPE R, NOT AN ACURA. The only sensible comment I ever heard from a tl owner is in the stories/enthusiest forum where he said he is driving an Accord with more features...
Headers and an intake to catch up to the GS, let's also put an intake and headers on the GS and see what happens.
Tl's are for misguided souls that think it is a sports sedan, period, it is a great family car, like a Japanese Taurus or something.
Everyday people tell me AND I MEAN EVERY DAY I am driving their DREAM CAR, a tl is not a dream car, so why are we even begining to compare the 2.
For 30k, give me a WRX or a Passat (given it shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord any wonder why it is so cheap.) I have driven the tl and left unimpressed, I have driven the type-S CL and it was fast that's about it.
Styling, gosh those things are so bland and sterile it puts me to sleep when I see one.
WHY THE HECK ARE WE COMPARING A CAR THAT SHARES 45% OF IT'S PARTS WITH AN ACCORD WITH A GS300/400 THIS IS INSANE!!!!!!!
I cannot believe this. The !@#$%^ car shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord, 45%!!!! IT IS AN ACCORD TYPE R, NOT AN ACURA. The only sensible comment I ever heard from a tl owner is in the stories/enthusiest forum where he said he is driving an Accord with more features...
Headers and an intake to catch up to the GS, let's also put an intake and headers on the GS and see what happens.
Tl's are for misguided souls that think it is a sports sedan, period, it is a great family car, like a Japanese Taurus or something.
Everyday people tell me AND I MEAN EVERY DAY I am driving their DREAM CAR, a tl is not a dream car, so why are we even begining to compare the 2.
For 30k, give me a WRX or a Passat (given it shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord any wonder why it is so cheap.) I have driven the tl and left unimpressed, I have driven the type-S CL and it was fast that's about it.
Styling, gosh those things are so bland and sterile it puts me to sleep when I see one.
WHY THE HECK ARE WE COMPARING A CAR THAT SHARES 45% OF IT'S PARTS WITH AN ACCORD WITH A GS300/400 THIS IS INSANE!!!!!!!
1sicklex's "subtle" approach on talking about this subject. hahhahha
sometimes u crack me up.
06-27-01, 11:41 AM
#30
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
I cannot believe this. The !@#$%^ car shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord, 45%!!!! IT IS AN ACCORD TYPE R, NOT AN ACURA. The only sensible comment I ever heard from a tl owner is in the stories/enthusiest forum where he said he is driving an Accord with more features...
Headers and an intake to catch up to the GS, let's also put an intake and headers on the GS and see what happens.
Tl's are for misguided souls that think it is a sports sedan, period, it is a great family car, like a Japanese Taurus or something.
Everyday people tell me AND I MEAN EVERY DAY I am driving their DREAM CAR, a tl is not a dream car, so why are we even begining to compare the 2.
For 30k, give me a WRX or a Passat (given it shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord any wonder why it is so cheap.) I have driven the tl and left unimpressed, I have driven the type-S CL and it was fast that's about it.
Styling, gosh those things are so bland and sterile it puts me to sleep when I see one.
WHY THE HECK ARE WE COMPARING A CAR THAT SHARES 45% OF IT'S PARTS WITH AN ACCORD WITH A GS300/400 THIS IS INSANE!!!!!!!
I cannot believe this. The !@#$%^ car shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord, 45%!!!! IT IS AN ACCORD TYPE R, NOT AN ACURA. The only sensible comment I ever heard from a tl owner is in the stories/enthusiest forum where he said he is driving an Accord with more features...
Headers and an intake to catch up to the GS, let's also put an intake and headers on the GS and see what happens.
Tl's are for misguided souls that think it is a sports sedan, period, it is a great family car, like a Japanese Taurus or something.
Everyday people tell me AND I MEAN EVERY DAY I am driving their DREAM CAR, a tl is not a dream car, so why are we even begining to compare the 2.
For 30k, give me a WRX or a Passat (given it shares 45% of it's parts with the Accord any wonder why it is so cheap.) I have driven the tl and left unimpressed, I have driven the type-S CL and it was fast that's about it.
Styling, gosh those things are so bland and sterile it puts me to sleep when I see one.
WHY THE HECK ARE WE COMPARING A CAR THAT SHARES 45% OF IT'S PARTS WITH AN ACCORD WITH A GS300/400 THIS IS INSANE!!!!!!!