Must read: LAME DESIGN FLAWS OF THE 2ND GEN GS
07-18-01, 09:39 PM
#33
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My list of missing goods...
Having recently purchased a 2000 GS300, I obviously think the car is a beautiful machine despite its flaws. However, just in case there are any execs from Toyota/Lexus perusing this board (ya, right), here are some of the items I still can't believe are missing from the GS line of cars:
1) Trip computer - Jesus, even base model GM's come with this. I would like to know how many gallons of gas I have and what my cruising range is. The outdoor temperature is a start, but I'd rather know the miles left in my tank before I know how hot it is outside. The trip computers used on some other cars also doubles as an "information center", which has much more detailed information about the operating levels of the car than the typical idiot lights or guages.
2) HID - Lexus should have this standard on every car. Period. No excuses.
3) Seat heaters - one setting? Puhleeeeze. The rear seats should be heated, too.
4) Folding rear seats - in my opinion, this should be mandated by law. Very few carmakers have this feature and it's a crime. It's one of those options you never think of until you are trying to stuff something long into your trunk. At the very least, give me a passthrough in the center.
5) Jacknife hinges on trunklid - another item that should be mandated by law. Chryslers have this. Infinitis have this. Pontiacs have this. Nothing is more aggravating than closing the trunk and the hinges intrude into the trunk and squash your stuff. Jacknife hinges can't cost much more and they sure do make the trunk space more usable.
6) Air-conditioned seats - SAAB 9-5's have this as an option and this option alone NEARLY sold me on a Saab. In hot climates there is nothing more uncomfortable than sitting on leather seats in your shorts. The Saab A/C system blows through performations in the seat cushion and back. Really great idea!
7) Steering wheel controls - I never thought much of these until I started renting cars that have controls in the wheel for the radio, A/C, and cruise. After you get used to them it's hard to go back to anything else.
8) Manual transmission - given the choice, I would have preferred a 5 or 6 speed over the auto. I know I am a dying breed, but somebody has to understand that not everybody wants to put the car in "D" and press the gas pedal. I want to shift, too.
9) Moonroof vents - I think only the Germans install these, but they rock. Instead of a solid moonroof cover, the Audis and VWs have small slits at the front. This allows you to leave the cover closed, tilt the moonroof, and pump on the A/C. All the heat blows out the top. I also think this helps with general ventilation yet keeps the sun off your head. Nice idea.
10) On-Star - another idea that I didn't think anything of until my friend bought a new Tahoe. These things kick ***! Remote diagnostics...remote opening of your car if you lock yourself out...valet service. I think more services are to come, too. Please put this in future Lexus cars.
Thx...Doug
1) Trip computer - Jesus, even base model GM's come with this. I would like to know how many gallons of gas I have and what my cruising range is. The outdoor temperature is a start, but I'd rather know the miles left in my tank before I know how hot it is outside. The trip computers used on some other cars also doubles as an "information center", which has much more detailed information about the operating levels of the car than the typical idiot lights or guages.
2) HID - Lexus should have this standard on every car. Period. No excuses.
3) Seat heaters - one setting? Puhleeeeze. The rear seats should be heated, too.
4) Folding rear seats - in my opinion, this should be mandated by law. Very few carmakers have this feature and it's a crime. It's one of those options you never think of until you are trying to stuff something long into your trunk. At the very least, give me a passthrough in the center.
5) Jacknife hinges on trunklid - another item that should be mandated by law. Chryslers have this. Infinitis have this. Pontiacs have this. Nothing is more aggravating than closing the trunk and the hinges intrude into the trunk and squash your stuff. Jacknife hinges can't cost much more and they sure do make the trunk space more usable.
6) Air-conditioned seats - SAAB 9-5's have this as an option and this option alone NEARLY sold me on a Saab. In hot climates there is nothing more uncomfortable than sitting on leather seats in your shorts. The Saab A/C system blows through performations in the seat cushion and back. Really great idea!
7) Steering wheel controls - I never thought much of these until I started renting cars that have controls in the wheel for the radio, A/C, and cruise. After you get used to them it's hard to go back to anything else.
8) Manual transmission - given the choice, I would have preferred a 5 or 6 speed over the auto. I know I am a dying breed, but somebody has to understand that not everybody wants to put the car in "D" and press the gas pedal. I want to shift, too.
9) Moonroof vents - I think only the Germans install these, but they rock. Instead of a solid moonroof cover, the Audis and VWs have small slits at the front. This allows you to leave the cover closed, tilt the moonroof, and pump on the A/C. All the heat blows out the top. I also think this helps with general ventilation yet keeps the sun off your head. Nice idea.
10) On-Star - another idea that I didn't think anything of until my friend bought a new Tahoe. These things kick ***! Remote diagnostics...remote opening of your car if you lock yourself out...valet service. I think more services are to come, too. Please put this in future Lexus cars.
Thx...Doug
07-19-01, 01:20 AM
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Sport seats anyone?
Did anyone mentioned the sport seats option? To me the seats in the GS are very comfortable but lack some side support for the hard cornering guys out there
As far as the trip computer, I was a little suprised that the GS 400($50k car) don't have one if you don't order the Nav. Well, just one less thing to break I guess.
How about a compass? I know the 2001 model has one, but I would like one on my car too.
As far as the trip computer, I was a little suprised that the GS 400($50k car) don't have one if you don't order the Nav. Well, just one less thing to break I guess.
How about a compass? I know the 2001 model has one, but I would like one on my car too.
07-19-01, 05:49 AM
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Re: My list of missing goods...
Originally posted by dgangi
6) Air-conditioned seats - SAAB 9-5's have this as an option and this option alone NEARLY sold me on a Saab. In hot climates there is nothing more uncomfortable than sitting on leather seats in your shorts. The Saab A/C system blows through performations in the seat cushion and back. Really great idea!
Thx...Doug
6) Air-conditioned seats - SAAB 9-5's have this as an option and this option alone NEARLY sold me on a Saab. In hot climates there is nothing more uncomfortable than sitting on leather seats in your shorts. The Saab A/C system blows through performations in the seat cushion and back. Really great idea!
Thx...Doug
07-19-01, 10:53 AM
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"DESIGN FLAWS"
1)Transmission heat. After driving agressive for 5 minutes or so I can feel the heat from the transmission! This is extremely annoying and an easily fixed "flaw".
2)Heated seats. I don't know about yours but mine do not work for ****! I can leave them on for hours and barely feel any more heat then my body already puts out.
3)Rear defrost/defog. My rear window won't defog PERIOD.
I guess that's pretty much it. In my mind these are "design flaws" not things that aren't there that I want. Transmission heat has to be the worst of all.
1)Transmission heat. After driving agressive for 5 minutes or so I can feel the heat from the transmission! This is extremely annoying and an easily fixed "flaw".
2)Heated seats. I don't know about yours but mine do not work for ****! I can leave them on for hours and barely feel any more heat then my body already puts out.
3)Rear defrost/defog. My rear window won't defog PERIOD.
I guess that's pretty much it. In my mind these are "design flaws" not things that aren't there that I want. Transmission heat has to be the worst of all.
07-19-01, 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by davezaristo
Okay, this post is made to flame our GS despite that I am a proud owner of a 01 GS300. They could be minor or major design flaws to different ppl, but I find them quite annoying not having, especially for a car in this price segment. I am not trying to hurt anyone's feeling or be a flamer. I just want to state my perspective after owning this car for 6 months. I won't brag about our GS since the board has already done that, and it would be an overkill if I do. Pls feel free to input your honest opinions. Perhaps, maybe we can send this post to Lexus HQ so that they can come up with a better 3rd GEN GS.
P.S. Part of this list doesn't pertain to the JDM Aristo..but we don't get the Aristo so we have every right to complain!
Here's the list (Compiled by Me and ARIST):
1. No sunglasses holder on the overhead (Camry has it!)
2. Side mirror doesn't tilt down when engage in reverse (BMW had this since 92!)
3. No trunk release at the trunk (imagine what a pain in the *** when your mom had to ask you to open the trunk after grocery shopping)
4. Door indicator doesn't say "which" door/trunk is open or close (My ex-1988 Accord had this feature)
5. No multifuction steering wheel
6. No trip computer (for those w/o navi)
7. HID not standard (and they are in the IS..wtf?)
8. No rear sunshade (not even an option!)
9. No wooden steering wheel option (except for GS4..hmm, I saw wooden steering wheel in a camry!)
10.CD changer still inside glove compartment..(geez, even the 01 accord has 6 disc in-dash changer)
11.No multiple driver keys (FYI, even the 3 series has this...it automatically retrieve individual settings as soon as the key is in)
12.No rain sensor for windshield wipers ((my uncle's Hyundai Trajet (a family van no sold in US) has that...but remember, we are talking HYUNDAI here!!..))
Well that's it for now...I truly think that these complains are legitimate for a 40k-50k car. Afterall, I still love my car..but I won't get another GS until they fix all these!
Okay, this post is made to flame our GS despite that I am a proud owner of a 01 GS300. They could be minor or major design flaws to different ppl, but I find them quite annoying not having, especially for a car in this price segment. I am not trying to hurt anyone's feeling or be a flamer. I just want to state my perspective after owning this car for 6 months. I won't brag about our GS since the board has already done that, and it would be an overkill if I do. Pls feel free to input your honest opinions. Perhaps, maybe we can send this post to Lexus HQ so that they can come up with a better 3rd GEN GS.
P.S. Part of this list doesn't pertain to the JDM Aristo..but we don't get the Aristo so we have every right to complain!
Here's the list (Compiled by Me and ARIST):
1. No sunglasses holder on the overhead (Camry has it!)
2. Side mirror doesn't tilt down when engage in reverse (BMW had this since 92!)
3. No trunk release at the trunk (imagine what a pain in the *** when your mom had to ask you to open the trunk after grocery shopping)
4. Door indicator doesn't say "which" door/trunk is open or close (My ex-1988 Accord had this feature)
5. No multifuction steering wheel
6. No trip computer (for those w/o navi)
7. HID not standard (and they are in the IS..wtf?)
8. No rear sunshade (not even an option!)
9. No wooden steering wheel option (except for GS4..hmm, I saw wooden steering wheel in a camry!)
10.CD changer still inside glove compartment..(geez, even the 01 accord has 6 disc in-dash changer)
11.No multiple driver keys (FYI, even the 3 series has this...it automatically retrieve individual settings as soon as the key is in)
12.No rain sensor for windshield wipers ((my uncle's Hyundai Trajet (a family van no sold in US) has that...but remember, we are talking HYUNDAI here!!..))
Well that's it for now...I truly think that these complains are legitimate for a 40k-50k car. Afterall, I still love my car..but I won't get another GS until they fix all these!
Here's another angle...I look at this list and most of them are features not design flaws. However, someone has already pointed that out. That being the case, I notice an alarming trend that A LOT of these features are ones that are INCLUDED on a comparable BMW ( I have one that has most of the features listed above as standard AND there's are comparisons made to the 3series BMW in other posts). Just remember, it's a Lexus and not a BMW. That's what makes them unique.
Sure, we can ask Lexus to include these things and they can go ahead and jack up the price of the MSRP on par with the BMW 5 series but I am sure a lot of people would not be happy with that. I am positive that a lot of us decided to buy a Lexus because it was less expensive than the BMW and had more features than a comparable 5 Series even though we don't have the above listed features...Just some food for thought.
Brent
07-19-01, 02:19 PM
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BLiu,
You are right about the pricing btw the 5-series and the GS. BUT, many of the features I listed are included in lower end cars such as accord, avalon, camry, and even HYUNDAI!...so how do you justify about pricing in your argument? In addition, the missing features i listed aren't that costly to the automaker but I don't understand why they aren't there. Could the GS design team be smoking crack when they approved the final production model??? Or were they trying to be original? I just hope that no one argues that a Modena 360 buys 5 GS and it still has no automatic climate control since that comparision won't make much sense.....IMO
Dave
You are right about the pricing btw the 5-series and the GS. BUT, many of the features I listed are included in lower end cars such as accord, avalon, camry, and even HYUNDAI!...so how do you justify about pricing in your argument? In addition, the missing features i listed aren't that costly to the automaker but I don't understand why they aren't there. Could the GS design team be smoking crack when they approved the final production model??? Or were they trying to be original? I just hope that no one argues that a Modena 360 buys 5 GS and it still has no automatic climate control since that comparision won't make much sense.....IMO
Dave
07-19-01, 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by davezaristo
BLiu,
You are right about the pricing btw the 5-series and the GS. BUT, many of the features I listed are included in lower end cars such as accord, avalon, camry, and even HYUNDAI!...so how do you justify about pricing in your argument? In addition, the missing features i listed aren't that costly to the automaker but I don't understand why they aren't there. Could the GS design team be smoking crack when they approved the final production model??? Or were they trying to be original? I just hope that no one argues that a Modena 360 buys 5 GS and it still has no automatic climate control since that comparision won't make much sense.....IMO
Dave
BLiu,
You are right about the pricing btw the 5-series and the GS. BUT, many of the features I listed are included in lower end cars such as accord, avalon, camry, and even HYUNDAI!...so how do you justify about pricing in your argument? In addition, the missing features i listed aren't that costly to the automaker but I don't understand why they aren't there. Could the GS design team be smoking crack when they approved the final production model??? Or were they trying to be original? I just hope that no one argues that a Modena 360 buys 5 GS and it still has no automatic climate control since that comparision won't make much sense.....IMO
Dave
Friendly debate - no flames intended...
I agree some features are incl on the accord, camry, etc BUT you can't justify cost to add features as just adding features. A LOT of money went in to the design of GS - that's why it's a Lexus and NOT a Honda or Toyota or even a Hyundai. In order to keep the car at a competitive price vs. the BMW while still providing luxury appointments, they had to set pricing at a certain level and remove things that would add cost to that set pricing...Sure, the accord may have those features but it is still an accord and NOT a Lexus. Bean counters know what they are doing, otherwise, Lexus would not have such a hit on their hands with the GS...Anyway, we are all just playing armchair business acountants anyway.
Maybe we should ask Lexus why they didn't add those features....HMMMMMMM....
Brent
07-19-01, 03:41 PM
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BLiu,
FYI, your Lexus GS is a TOYOTA and it is called the TOYOTA ARISTO in japan. Lexus is just a premium brand name that toyota created in order to seperate their high end models. Also, it's a marketing scheme so that ppl would pay more for the status of owning one. I think Lexus is definitely successful on this business strategy since everyone thinks that they are driving a Lexus and not a Toyota eventhough it was build with the same parts and made at the same location. I am just trying to be express my opinions and be informative here and in no way that i am antagonistic about your views or anyone's views. Afterall, this is why I posted this message in the first place since only a countable number of ppl have ever mentioned the negative sides of the GS
Dave
FYI, your Lexus GS is a TOYOTA and it is called the TOYOTA ARISTO in japan. Lexus is just a premium brand name that toyota created in order to seperate their high end models. Also, it's a marketing scheme so that ppl would pay more for the status of owning one. I think Lexus is definitely successful on this business strategy since everyone thinks that they are driving a Lexus and not a Toyota eventhough it was build with the same parts and made at the same location. I am just trying to be express my opinions and be informative here and in no way that i am antagonistic about your views or anyone's views. Afterall, this is why I posted this message in the first place since only a countable number of ppl have ever mentioned the negative sides of the GS
Dave
07-19-01, 03:48 PM
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Question: Why do all the JDM cars have all the extra/cool features and not the exports? Is it due to cost??? mktg strategy??? Can anyone answer???...I am just curious...AND FOR THE GERMANS, it is the other way around...we never get a E240 or 316i here....anyone ever thought about that as well??? hmm....
07-19-01, 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by davezaristo
FYI, your Lexus GS is a TOYOTA and it is called the TOYOTA ARISTO in japan. Lexus is just a premium brand name that toyota created in order to seperate their high end models.
Question: Why do all the JDM cars have all the extra/cool features and not the exports? Is it due to cost??? mktg strategy??? Can anyone answer???...I am just curious...AND FOR THE GERMANS, it is the other way around...we never get a E240 or 316i here....anyone ever thought about that as well??? hmm....
FYI, your Lexus GS is a TOYOTA and it is called the TOYOTA ARISTO in japan. Lexus is just a premium brand name that toyota created in order to seperate their high end models.
Question: Why do all the JDM cars have all the extra/cool features and not the exports? Is it due to cost??? mktg strategy??? Can anyone answer???...I am just curious...AND FOR THE GERMANS, it is the other way around...we never get a E240 or 316i here....anyone ever thought about that as well??? hmm....
I don't know if you meant it - but you came off in your words as thinking I am ignorant of the fact that Lexus is Toyota which I think almost everybody on this forum pretty much knows, right? So I guess you assume my knowledge of Lexus/Toyota is pretty - no, make that VERY - limited, right?
If that was your intentions, then I don't really care because it doesn't really bother me that you think I am ignorant because my life consists of more than just knowing that Lexus is Toyota.
If not, that's cool, I guess I read too much into the text and I need to chill. Just be careful, because your words may be mistaken as talking down to someone. I am pretty cool with it because I initially prefaced my posts with the disclaimer of "a friendly debate" and "no flames intended". I can't speak for how somebody else would react though...
I KNOW Lexus is Toyota - that's not my point. My point is there is a pricing strategy going on. I am willing to bet there are some features/options on an Honda Accord that are not on an Acura TL and it still due to pricing strategies but I know Honda owns both and it sets pricing strategies on both- same thing same principle.
And to answer the question above, I think mainstream America don't necessarily care about all the extra/cool gadgetry to a certain extent-if they had to pay for it. Otherwise, all the neat electronic stuff they sell in Japan would also sell here. Mainstream america is looking for luxury and convenience at an affordable price-so there is no market for extra goodies. At least that's my take on it.
All of us here on the forum do not represent even a third of the Lexus owners out there. That's why we come to this forum to express opinions...
Sorry so negative, we will never "get such wonderful toys" because it all boils down to profit and cost. And there's just too little profit and too much cost.
Brent
Last edited by BLiu; 07-19-01 at 05:45 PM.
07-19-01, 08:04 PM
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First of all, I am not trying to test your knowledge on whether you know Lexus is a toyota or not because I really don't care. BUT, you were the one that came up with this "that's why it's a Lexus and NOT a Honda or Toyota or even a Hyundai" and that statement led me to believe that you think Lexus is Lexus and not a Toyota. Maybe I've misunderstood your intention and it seems like I did from your previous post, but you words were certainly very unclear in your original post. I do understand that most people on this forum knows that the GS is a Toyota Aristo, but there are always the few that doesn't know. (even a Lexus salesman I've came across before didn't know) I was just trying to be clear and to the point.
07-19-01, 08:07 PM
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Let me add a beef that I haven't seen. Mind you, I am extremely happy with my vehicle.
The license plate holder on the back only has 2 screw holes. Therefore, every time I close the trunk, the tag rattles against the trunk lid. For a car where everything else is tight and without rattles I would like to be able to put the 4 screws in so the blasted thing doesn't move at all. I may have to see if I can do something on my own.
My humble opinion.
Matt
The license plate holder on the back only has 2 screw holes. Therefore, every time I close the trunk, the tag rattles against the trunk lid. For a car where everything else is tight and without rattles I would like to be able to put the 4 screws in so the blasted thing doesn't move at all. I may have to see if I can do something on my own.
My humble opinion.
Matt