Must read: LAME DESIGN FLAWS OF THE 2ND GEN GS
07-19-01, 09:19 PM
#46
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Price argument
OK -- it looks like a mini-war has started over the pricing structure of Lexus cars. While I don't want to fan any flames, let me at least add my 2 cents:
In my opinion, every "upscale" car brand within a company should have every feature that the 'lower" brands contain. I would expect a Cadillac to have every feature as standard (with few exceptions) that is available on a comparable Buick, Chevy, etc. For Lexus cars to exclude some of the items they put on Camrys and Avalons is total BS.
Second -- and this is all about perception -- if Lexus is going to maintain their snob appeal, they have to appeal to us snobs. That means they need to include the same toys and "cool" engineering features that other manufacturers include at the same or better price. I can't say how much it pisses me off that some of the features I put in my list are available on cheaper cars! Yes, I may have real wood and some "better" engineering, but I expect a $40K+ "luxury" car to have most of what every other "luxury" car has.
When I finally made my decision to buy the Lexus, it was for its style, performance, and reputation. I didn't buy it for the gadgets because it really doesn't have much...but I would not consider myself to be a "typical" consumer (wayyyyy too **** and conservative). But as you marketing types know, it's the showy flashy stuff that catches a person's eye and the quality and performance that gets them to buy. Consumers are fickle and they always want the "next best thing" at the best price point possible. In the car world, that typically means more comfort, performance, and techno-nifty **** at rock bottom prices.
Remember -- Lexus knocked Mercedes, Jaguar, and other luxury brands off the mountain by undercutting their overinflated prices with as good or better cars, in both technology and features. Now that Lexus has gone way up in price, other manufacturers can play the same game on Lexus that Lexus played on Mercedes a decade ago. For Lexus to remain a viable product, they have to figure out how to stuff more features and technology into their cars while keeping their quality top notch and their prices down. If they don't, somebody else will muscle in on their game. That's just Economics 101 and one of the great things about a consumer driven system.
Thx...Doug
In my opinion, every "upscale" car brand within a company should have every feature that the 'lower" brands contain. I would expect a Cadillac to have every feature as standard (with few exceptions) that is available on a comparable Buick, Chevy, etc. For Lexus cars to exclude some of the items they put on Camrys and Avalons is total BS.
Second -- and this is all about perception -- if Lexus is going to maintain their snob appeal, they have to appeal to us snobs. That means they need to include the same toys and "cool" engineering features that other manufacturers include at the same or better price. I can't say how much it pisses me off that some of the features I put in my list are available on cheaper cars! Yes, I may have real wood and some "better" engineering, but I expect a $40K+ "luxury" car to have most of what every other "luxury" car has.
When I finally made my decision to buy the Lexus, it was for its style, performance, and reputation. I didn't buy it for the gadgets because it really doesn't have much...but I would not consider myself to be a "typical" consumer (wayyyyy too **** and conservative). But as you marketing types know, it's the showy flashy stuff that catches a person's eye and the quality and performance that gets them to buy. Consumers are fickle and they always want the "next best thing" at the best price point possible. In the car world, that typically means more comfort, performance, and techno-nifty **** at rock bottom prices.
Remember -- Lexus knocked Mercedes, Jaguar, and other luxury brands off the mountain by undercutting their overinflated prices with as good or better cars, in both technology and features. Now that Lexus has gone way up in price, other manufacturers can play the same game on Lexus that Lexus played on Mercedes a decade ago. For Lexus to remain a viable product, they have to figure out how to stuff more features and technology into their cars while keeping their quality top notch and their prices down. If they don't, somebody else will muscle in on their game. That's just Economics 101 and one of the great things about a consumer driven system.
Thx...Doug
07-19-01, 09:58 PM
#47
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Originally posted by davezaristo
First of all, I am not trying to test your knowledge on whether you know Lexus is a toyota or not because I really don't care. BUT, you were the one that came up with this "that's why it's a Lexus and NOT a Honda or Toyota or even a Hyundai" and that statement led me to believe that you think Lexus is Lexus and not a Toyota. Maybe I've misunderstood your intention and it seems like I did from your previous post, but you words were certainly very unclear in your original post. I do understand that most people on this forum knows that the GS is a Toyota Aristo, but there are always the few that doesn't know. (even a Lexus salesman I've came across before didn't know) I was just trying to be clear and to the point.
First of all, I am not trying to test your knowledge on whether you know Lexus is a toyota or not because I really don't care. BUT, you were the one that came up with this "that's why it's a Lexus and NOT a Honda or Toyota or even a Hyundai" and that statement led me to believe that you think Lexus is Lexus and not a Toyota. Maybe I've misunderstood your intention and it seems like I did from your previous post, but you words were certainly very unclear in your original post. I do understand that most people on this forum knows that the GS is a Toyota Aristo, but there are always the few that doesn't know. (even a Lexus salesman I've came across before didn't know) I was just trying to be clear and to the point.
07-20-01, 12:14 PM
#48
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Doug: I totally agree with you...and that's my point from the beginning.
BLiu: I think you partly misunderstood the reasoning behind my original post, and you seem to think that I am trying to flame someone here which I was never intended to do.
BLiu: I think you partly misunderstood the reasoning behind my original post, and you seem to think that I am trying to flame someone here which I was never intended to do.
07-20-01, 12:42 PM
#49
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Originally posted by davezaristo
BLiu: I think you partly misunderstood the reasoning behind my original post, and you seem to think that I am trying to flame someone here which I was never intended to do.
BLiu: I think you partly misunderstood the reasoning behind my original post, and you seem to think that I am trying to flame someone here which I was never intended to do.
I UNDERSTAND your point of view. I UNDERSTAND Doug's point of view. Believe it or not, I agree your point of view and would like these feature too! I was just trying to provide a different angle, side, point of view, point, whatever.
And that is...Lexus did not become JD POWER's #1 customer satisfaction for 5 years in a row (I may be off on the award name and number of years in a row - but it is an impressive stat) without giving this feature list a serious thought. I honestly don't think that Lexus has overlooked, for example, the right-hand-side-mirror-lowering to see curbs in reverse (which is a very cool feature) on the BMW esp since they are their direct competitors and it's been around BMW since 1992. There must be a good reason for it, which I am interested to know because those feature are important! My guess was the pricing strategy theory.
You claim that you don't intend to flame anyone yet your initial title of your post is "LAME DESIGN FLAWS...Must read". If I was a Lexus engineer that slaved away at the GS and stumbled upon this post, I think I would be pretty furious especially considering all the awards the GS has won in the past and then I find out in the post that it is a list of missing features and not design-oriented at all. Like I said, I am cool about everything. Just pointing out different angles and things to be careful about. Text can be easily misunderstood - just like what happened when I forgot to add makes to my models and you thought I was ignorant of the Lexus/Toyota GS/Aristo connection...Peace, dude. I think this will be my last post - it has really dragged on too long. Sorry.
Brent
07-20-01, 12:50 PM
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Yes, and indeed, the post did get carried away to a different topic...Like I said in my other post, I agree that I used the wrong title for this post (not sure if you read that)...but your feedback on the pricing scheme was something I've never thought and you made a good point...
07-22-01, 04:11 AM
#51
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Canadian Version doesn't have all of the "flaws" listed !
Davearisto:
1.) HID is Standard in Canadian GS ever since 1999 Model.
"Globeclk-in regards to sunglasses, homelink and sunglasses holder do co-exist in many cars...check out the 01 accord or 01 highlander as an example... "
i totally agree with you, however, as far as i know the RX, ES, GS all have both Homeline and Sunglass holder..
2.) Homelink is located above the driver seat and the Sunglasses Holder is located center ever since the 2000 model
Chino78:
3.) Rear Defrost is Standard in Canada
4.) Uhmm my heater on my seats work fine
Dgangi:
5.) Standard Wheel Control - has it in GS430
6.) On-Star -> why would i want them to be spying on us
Mschoaf:
you can ask your dealer to make 2 more holes ;-)
1.) HID is Standard in Canadian GS ever since 1999 Model.
"Globeclk-in regards to sunglasses, homelink and sunglasses holder do co-exist in many cars...check out the 01 accord or 01 highlander as an example... "
i totally agree with you, however, as far as i know the RX, ES, GS all have both Homeline and Sunglass holder..
2.) Homelink is located above the driver seat and the Sunglasses Holder is located center ever since the 2000 model
Chino78:
3.) Rear Defrost is Standard in Canada
4.) Uhmm my heater on my seats work fine
Dgangi:
5.) Standard Wheel Control - has it in GS430
6.) On-Star -> why would i want them to be spying on us
Mschoaf:
you can ask your dealer to make 2 more holes ;-)
07-22-01, 08:18 AM
#52
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Originally posted by mschoaf
Let me add a beef that I haven't seen. Mind you, I am extremely happy with my vehicle.
The license plate holder on the back only has 2 screw holes. Therefore, every time I close the trunk, the tag rattles against the trunk lid. For a car where everything else is tight and without rattles I would like to be able to put the 4 screws in so the blasted thing doesn't move at all. I may have to see if I can do something on my own.
Let me add a beef that I haven't seen. Mind you, I am extremely happy with my vehicle.
The license plate holder on the back only has 2 screw holes. Therefore, every time I close the trunk, the tag rattles against the trunk lid. For a car where everything else is tight and without rattles I would like to be able to put the 4 screws in so the blasted thing doesn't move at all. I may have to see if I can do something on my own.
07-22-01, 11:49 AM
#53
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Competition brings out the best in all of us. There is always something to improve that is why this forum is the best. I do hope someone from Lexus is listening to us.
You can't have everything, but for the amount you pay for these cars, you want as much as you can get.
I have this permanent smile ever since I bought my Lexus. That is customer satisfaction.
You can't have everything, but for the amount you pay for these cars, you want as much as you can get.
I have this permanent smile ever since I bought my Lexus. That is customer satisfaction.
07-23-01, 05:58 AM
#54
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Originally posted by lexguynj
Competition brings out the best in all of us. There is always something to improve that is why this forum is the best. I do hope someone from Lexus is listening to us.
You can't have everything, but for the amount you pay for these cars, you want as much as you can get.
I have this permanent smile ever since I bought my Lexus. That is customer satisfaction.
Competition brings out the best in all of us. There is always something to improve that is why this forum is the best. I do hope someone from Lexus is listening to us.
You can't have everything, but for the amount you pay for these cars, you want as much as you can get.
I have this permanent smile ever since I bought my Lexus. That is customer satisfaction.
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