Iceman

Greetings to everyone at Club Lexus! I'm new to this board, but I joined becuase I am strongly considering the GS430 for my next car. I have been pleased as I lurked around that most of the people here are pleasant, intelligent, and open-minded (unlike some other boards I've seen). I'd like to take advantage of those qualities and ask you for some help as I learn about Lexus and make my next car choice.

First, a little about me. My first new car was a '91 Saturn coupe, which back in the day was a lot nicer car than it is now, sold inexpensively, and with some great customer service. I ended up buying three more; my last was a '95. I won't tell the whole long story, but Saturn's just another dumpy GM division now. After that my wife got an Acura Integra GS-R and I got the car I'm still driving now--a '98 Acura 3.0 CL. And now our other car is a '00 BMW M Roadster. At that time Lexus didn't offer any cars I was looking for (ES--too stodgy, GS--too expensive, SC--not a convertible yet).

The lease will be up on our Bimmer in about a year, and we're going to get our first family car. We like performance and luxury, and want something that will last (this time we're going to buy, not lease). Our experience with BMW has been that you get performance, but not much of the other two qualities. Mercedes simply seem too overpriced, and (call me hypocritical if you want) I can't get over the fact that an Audi is just a Volkswagen. Our experiences with Acura have been tremendously positive.

So the only two cars we're seriously considering (even though the decision is a year away, I enjoy planning these things!) are the GS430 and the TL Type-S. I've followed the comparisons here and at acura-tl.com and the opinions are of course biased one way or the other. No matter whether or not you feel the TL and the GS are in the same class, they are to me! Those are the two cars I will be directly comparing and trying to choose between.

Here's where I need your help. Since I have no experience with Lexus, I'd like to get some of your opinions. I will especially value input from those of you who have actually owned both types or cars, or at least both brands. Blanket statements like "Well, an Acura just isn't a Lexus and if you can't tell the difference then you deserve what you get" won't help a whole lot.

- How are Lexus dealers in general? Are they all outstanding, are there one or two sleazy ones, or are they pretty much like any car lot?

- How do fit/finish, interior noises, leather/material quality, performance, resale value, etc. hold up over time? I've seen Acuras get bashed here for their "vastly inferior" build quality, but I've been extremely happy with mine. I went by the Lexus dealer today and sat in a GS, and the quality looked about the same to me.

- What do you think of the L-Tuned kits? I'm very tempted by the "stage 2" setup but would like to see the ground effects kit on a car and hear some opinions about how much the other mods improved the performance and how much ride comfort you give up.

- This one's subjective, but how does the gray leather interior look? I don't like tan leather and all the ones on the lot today had black.

- How is Lexus for service? Do you find that you can get appointments when you need them, they always give you a loaner car, they politely fix everything no matter how nit-picky?

I've already determined that BMW as "the ultimate driving machine" is not much more than a marketing gimmick. I guess before I dive into the Lexus mystique I'd like to hear from some folks first-hand what they really think. What it really boils down to is that the GS430 has more power, better handling, and more luxurious features than the TL-S but will cost me about $24K more. Will it be worth it?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

xshadowz

Hey, I hear your dilemma. I love the TL-S, but for the same $$$ as a new TL-S, I'm looking to purchase a pre-owned GS400. Why? To me, GS400 is in another category. It's got razor sharp looks and performance, while the TL-S is more soft on the edges. A more appropriate comparision would be between a 3-series sedan and the TL-S, but not GS4 to TL-S.

Just my opinion anyways... Good luck though, I think both are great cars.

RON430

For most of us, it is very difficult to separate out price. The TL-S seems to be about as good as it gets in its price range. GS430 is what, 60 or 65% more? That's a fair amount and it should get you more vehicle, which it does. But 60 or 65% more? It depends on you. I am 6'1" and around 240 so I am on the large size, it's OK I have learned to live with it. The TL-S is a little tight for me almost all the way around. The GS cabin is about as comfortable as it gets if you tend to the plus sizes. Like I have posted before, the new Mercedes C-Class has 89 cuft interior space, BMW 3-series 91, BMW 5-series 93, and the E Class 95, while the GS has 100 cuft interior and to me, it is very noticeable. Obviously the GS is rear wheel drive. This may not be as big a deal as it once was because front drivers are getting very good and pure and simple, there are some people that prefer them. I prefer, and am willing to pay for, RWD.

Dealers - Some good, some not so good. But I will say that a good Lexus dealer seems to be very good - better than most other marques.

Fit-finish - Toyota excellent. What amazes me most about Toyotas is not that they are generally squeak free but that I can rip the door panels off, futz with the speakers, run wires, mash around, and then put the whole thing back together and it is just as squeak free as when I started. Amazing. There aren't too many other cars built like that. Haven't owned an Acura but I have owned Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Mazda and they don't seem to be anywhere near as good.

Gray Leather - Hope this doesn't start any flames. Years ago (deep into bimmer territory) I got a relationship with a superb detailer who has since passed away but he taught me a lot about materials and finish. He was not crazy about gray leather because he said it was the toughest to keep in good shape over time. He said that gray leather had more dyes used on it than any other color, even black, and that the dye is what made it tough to keep it in good shape. Gray does look great, if you get it, keep it treated with a good quality leather treatment and hopefully out of the sun as much as you can.

Service - I already posted about my experience with service. I called about 4 o'clock on a Thursday afternoon and they said I could bring it in the next day, or saturday or sunday. As an ex BMW owner, I was speechless. Like I said, if you get a good Lexus dealership/service dept. they are very good.

Your last question is "Will it be worth it?" Very tough one to answer. Depends on how much the difference is worth to you. I wouldn't try to get into a which one is better playoff, they are different with the GS seemingly offering more but at a higher price. Also, take my prejudices with a grain of salt, like I said, I got the GS.

CamRen

lets just put it this way. i test drove an acura cl-s (i knwo its dif. from tl but heck there all alike. any ways.... when i test drove a acura and stoped at a signal people saw the car and were looking like i was just another guy with an acura. now when i test drove a lexus and stopped @ a signal people who didnt have power windows in there car rolled down there windows to tell me how luxurios my car looked and how gr8 i looked in it if i were you i would go for the GS it can almost beat those 2002 m3's which are also very nice.

GS4Will

Iceman,

welcome.

one of the many reasons that i will be on my 4th lex is for the KING-like royal treatment from the dealers, whether it is the buying or ownership experience.

about the different in price. it really depends on the options you select. if i were to get the tl, it would be the type S. and if opt for the fully loaded gs430, the difference is approx. no more than $19k. if you could settle for a premium pkg gs430, the amount is even smaller. overall, by playing around different options, i would say the gap is ~$15-19k. for a rear wheel drive gs, V-8, lexus quality, dealer treatment, the difference seemed getting smaller to me.

btw, if situation limits, i would get a clean used 99 gs400 than a new new TL.

good luck

nanotech

iTrader: (2)

You can't really put the GS430 and the Acura TL-S in the same league...you said yourself the GS430 is $24k more.....if it was me, I would rather get a used GS400, but if you have to have a brand new car, then the TL-S gives you more performance per dollar....ofcourse looks, luxury, and quality may be different than a GS430.

2SAVVY

Ok we currently own both vehicles in question..

My wife has a '99 TL and i've got the '00 GS for the moment.. Honestly comparing the 2 is not what you should be doing..

I love the TL.. For the price and what you get its an amazing vehicle.. Problems so far have been minor like the window moldings that surround the window falling off and having to be reglued to wiper motor breaking in the winter but I blame the Mrs. since the window was frozen at the time and she turned them on.. As for service not any where close to the a$$ kissing I get at Lexus.. Maybe its just this particular Acura dealer but they always rub both the wife and I the wrong way.. As for noises on the TL there have been a few.. Glove box rattle, center console rattle and rear shelf rattle.. Took 5 trips to the dealer to get all those fixed..

On to the GS.. I cannot say one bad thing about this car.. It drives like it is on rails and I haven't even started to do any mods to it.. The power is too addictive for words.. Service all the way down the line is by far one of the main reasons why I ended up ordering another Lexus (SC 430)..

If money isn't a consideration and even if it is a used GS is still better than a new TL-S in my humble opinion then it is a no brainer.. GS all the way but even if you decide on the TL-S I couldn't fault you.. For the money it is an excellent car but is in NO WAY in the league of a GS..

If you have any other questions concerning the 2 vehicles please PM me and I would be happy to help in any way that I can!

Happy shopping!!

PS: I love the M Roadster but if the BMW dealer wasn't such an a$$ I would of bought it instead of the SC..

GlobeCLK

iTrader: (5)

Again you cannot compare TLs and GSs. TL/TL-S GS300/400/430 whatever. GS costs more, because it's got a buncha stuff TL will never get such as the quality, materials, handling (FWD on TL a big minus), service, etc. etc. I can go on and on.

Size is also a big problem. I've drove my girlfriend's mom's TL and I CANNOT sit in a comfortable position (I'm 6ft. 1 also). In my GS300 I can move my seat so that I can sit VERY comfortably, and there is still room for me to move back (If I grow) and STILL have room in the back.

TLs are great also. Around 30k, nothing comes close, and it takes the title as being the best valued car. But 30k what you spend, 30k stuff you get. compared to a 43k GS300 or a 53k GS430 fully loaded, there IS a price difference but the difference is there FOR A REASON.

If budget allows, get a GS. If budget doesn't, get a used GS. If your budget is only enough for a used TL, get a WRX.

rbarker

I just traded in a 99 TL last month for a new GS 300.

TL = Good car
Acura service for me was excellent.
Resale value was excellent

But there ain't no way that the TL is in the same league
as the GS. If you can't tell the difference then don't bother spending the extra cash. As for me, I have no trouble making the distinction between the cars.

The GS is quieter, most definately smoother both in ride and engine/transmission performance, and is a much more solid feeling vehicle. Just close a door on each and you should instantly see what I mean.

As for grey leather.... I have it, I love it!

whitediamond

Either way you go, your gettting a nice car.
Since you brought up price however, you would probably be happier in the TL-S though the GS is vastly superior. I was torn between a new TL-S or preowned GS400. I drove the heck out of both. There was no comparison. I still like the TL-S, not as much as my GS though. Best of luck and hope to see you on board.

Iceman

I'd like to thank everyone for their opinions so far. There has been a minimum of inflammatory nonsense (although one person did tell me, just like I asked everyone not to, that if I can't tell the difference then I shouldn't get the Lexus! ).

A few things I guess I forgot to mention:

- I'm only looking for a brand new car. There are lots of reasons for this, but you can chalk it all up to personal preference.

- I tend to load up my cars with almost all the available options and accessories. That's just what I like! So that's how I end up with a $24K price difference between the two cars.

- It's not that I can't afford the GS, it would just be a 3-year loan instead of a 2-year on the TL to keep the payments where I want them.

- Although I like high-performance cars, it's not like I'm going to take my family car to the race track or anything. FWD vs. RWD is overrated in my opinion, although there's no questioning the superior power, handling, and braking of the Lexus over the Acura.

- I'm 5' 11" and I fit nicely in both cars. I guess I might have the occasional burly passenger, but that's not a major factor in my decision.

Again, I appreciate the specific advice, especially on things like the gray leather and great dealer service. No one has written anything about the L-Tuned kits yet, though--does anyone actually buy them?

3ems

Iceman:
Like you I looked at both vechiles before I finally choosed the GS. It's been only two weeks since i've owned it but each time I see the TL-S I smile that I'm driving the Lexus instead. Like you I prefer new cars and i've never leased. So make sure that which ever vehicle you buy that you are able to smile like me.
The TL-S would be my choice if cost was a factor.
Just my .02 cents.

GS4Will

iceman,

well, if new car is your cup of tea, then tl-s does present an excellent value. in the $20k's, i will take the accord v-6, in the $30ks, it would be the tl-s, in the $40ks, the GS300, the $50ks, the gs430, IMHO.

anyway, about the price difference, the gs430, loaded w/every options is now selling at ~$50500-51000+fees( i am looking at one now). my freind just bought a tl-s for $31500+fees. you are right, the diff is quite big. but again, most people i heard who like/consider new tl-s do not have gs430 in their mind due to price gap. over the yeras of reading the threads, the debates are usually between w slightly owned gs400/new gs300 v. new tl-s.

whichever you choose, you go home a winner.

will

GS4Will

iceman,

for got about your l-tuned inquiry.

for this, you do not need to get the whole pkg if you do not want. most of us gets pieces at a time from steve at hugh discount(please do not get them from your friendly dealer)

www.l-tunedparts.com

the cosmetic dress-up is a personal matter, so it is up to you. the 18s tyre+wheel pkg is a very good deal if you like the wheel design.

50% of members here have the l-tuned suspension upgrade and rave about them for the pric, you cannot go wrong. the gs suspension is too soft for a sports sedan. l-tuned spring and shocks firm it up without harshness.

will

nanotech

iTrader: (2)

If I could afford it (which you say you could), I would definitely go with the GS430.....like I have said before, the TL-S is a good value for the money, but just put a brand new TL-S next to a GS430....the TL-S will look very undesirable, then sit inside both of them, the TL-S will again look undesirable, then drive both of them....you get the point! Yes there is a $20k difference, but just like you said, 3-yr loan instead of 2-yr...money is no object, then GS430 is the car!