How's Lexus going to catch up to AMG and M Series
08-07-01, 07:14 PM
#1
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Lexus better come up with something because BMW and Mercedes are raising the bar on high-performance sports sedans. The next E55 will have a supercharged engine producing about 450 HP and 500+ lb/ft of torque. The next M5 will also have around 450 HP. Even if Lexus come up with a GS500 or something, that would only be a current M5 and E55 fighter, but won't be able to compete with the next gens. COM'ON LEXUS, DON'T LET US DOWN!!!! WE NEED MORE POWER!!!!!
08-07-01, 07:25 PM
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I wrote a letter to Acura about a year ago saying basically the same thing to them. I got a polite letter back saying that they had sent my suggestions to the appropriate design teams, but I got the distinct impression that they're happy to leave the $80K+ high performance sedan market to the Germans. Maybe Lexus feels the same way? The GS300/430 are superior in so many ways to the "standard" offerings from BMW and Benz, that maybe Lexus doesn't want to dump the design and marketing costs into a tiny market vehicle that already has some superb competitors?
08-07-01, 07:48 PM
#3
Originally posted by Iceman
I wrote a letter to Acura about a year ago saying basically the same thing to them. I got a polite letter back saying that they had sent my suggestions to the appropriate design teams, but I got the distinct impression that they're happy to leave the $80K+ high performance sedan market to the Germans. Maybe Lexus feels the same way? The GS300/430 are superior in so many ways to the "standard" offerings from BMW and Benz, that maybe Lexus doesn't want to dump the design and marketing costs into a tiny market vehicle that already has some superb competitors?
I wrote a letter to Acura about a year ago saying basically the same thing to them. I got a polite letter back saying that they had sent my suggestions to the appropriate design teams, but I got the distinct impression that they're happy to leave the $80K+ high performance sedan market to the Germans. Maybe Lexus feels the same way? The GS300/430 are superior in so many ways to the "standard" offerings from BMW and Benz, that maybe Lexus doesn't want to dump the design and marketing costs into a tiny market vehicle that already has some superb competitors?
Lexus is different. They already have the GS300/430 which kicks *** when they're in the E320/430 and 530/540 league. Now since BMW has M5 and MB has E55, it's not impossible to see Lexus coming up with a special vehicle just to beat those 2 cars. However Lexus is a division of Toyota and they have to go through alot to approve a car, such as market, etc.etc.
08-07-01, 07:53 PM
#4
Lexus Champion
what lexus needs is the V300 and up the boost, thats it its already a car, i dont see how it could be any eisier, emissions cant be that hard, they'll figure out a loop hole, just do it! kick major ***!! people wont understand how a small engine makes the power at first, but they will learn!
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08-07-01, 09:38 PM
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Just like all of you, I am really hoping Lexus not only meets the competition, but raises the bar, like they did with the GS series. And I really think that they will (knock on wood) answer our prayers. I believe this simply because they are competitors with the two Germans.......and in order to compete, you gotta meet and beat what they got. And I really hope Lexus does bring out a GS 5.......hopefully with the next gen car. And hopefully by that time I'll have enough $$$ to grab it.
PS.....3 letters that'll blow the competition away? Hmmm, N O S?
PS.....3 letters that'll blow the competition away? Hmmm, N O S?
08-07-01, 11:11 PM
#10
Originally posted by zz231
three letters? TRD
did i get right? where is my prize?
three letters? TRD
did i get right? where is my prize?
hahahaha
Lexlyf:
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Marken Smith, aka "Lexlyf"
Chief Marketing Officer, Swift Racing Technologies
msmith@swiftracing.com
www.swiftracing.com
"You have every reason in the world to be afraid!"
hmm..... I wonder what he means.....
08-07-01, 11:34 PM
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Its time
BMW sells more V8 sedans?? Says who?
The Lexus LS400 garners over 48% of ALL luxury high end sedans sold in this country. BMW is not even close
As far as the chasing, where have you been for the last 12 years? Even the BMW CEO has made the statement that BMW has a long way to go in matching Lexus in terms of quality.
Lets see: Lexus sells more luxury cars then all other makes ,PERIOD.
And how long has BMW/MB been out??? Lexus has already surpassed them. In reliability AND SALES. Add to this that both MB and BMW have over twice the lineup vrs Lexus and it still gets surpassed.
And you will also see that many here have owned 540's and other BMW's like myself. So please keep your assumptions to yourself . Typical BMW owner. Hard headed with no facts to back up his perceived arguments.
As far as the super sedan is concerned, Lexus does not offer one, thus this post. Read it. If they did, AND THEY WILL, it will surely surpass any BMW super sedan. Hell a ES300 is a higher quality car than you M5 or Z8. Not saying their bad, I still like Bummers,oppps, Bimmers. One just gets tired of the same cheap black plastic and your 540 looking like your neighbors 3 series.
Now if you want to compare a 540 to a GS. I will happily ablidge you. In fact, if your in So Ca. I will DRIVE OUT TO YOU and we can take this where it counts, ON THE ROAD. Unless like most BMW owners I catch on the road, you squirm when a Lexus is next to you, that inferiority complex type of thing BMW owners go through. I went through it too when I had my Bummers, so it's ok.
So lets see how superior your car is. In fact, lets take it into the desert and race in the 120 degree weather and see how long it takes for your weather stripping to melt (and it does alot), and your head gasket to blow. Or your speedo needle to FALL OFF, or the AC to break-AGAIN.........
So the next time you see a GS across the intersection, look into yourself, feel those feelings your going through? That funny tingling in your tummy? THATS JEALOUSY buddy. Get used to it!
Besides, when was the last time someone even gazed at your car. I mean really looked at your car, not your wishful preception that their looking at your 3 series,ooops 5 series. Sorry pal, Lexus has alot more pinnache than BMW does.
So-you come here with NO ARGUMENTS, NO FACTS, just alot of blabber. Typical BMW owner.
Guess what??? You just got *****ED SLAPPED. MULTIPLE TIMES.
I can also do it on the road.
The Lexus LS400 garners over 48% of ALL luxury high end sedans sold in this country. BMW is not even close
As far as the chasing, where have you been for the last 12 years? Even the BMW CEO has made the statement that BMW has a long way to go in matching Lexus in terms of quality.
Lets see: Lexus sells more luxury cars then all other makes ,PERIOD.
And how long has BMW/MB been out??? Lexus has already surpassed them. In reliability AND SALES. Add to this that both MB and BMW have over twice the lineup vrs Lexus and it still gets surpassed.
And you will also see that many here have owned 540's and other BMW's like myself. So please keep your assumptions to yourself . Typical BMW owner. Hard headed with no facts to back up his perceived arguments.
As far as the super sedan is concerned, Lexus does not offer one, thus this post. Read it. If they did, AND THEY WILL, it will surely surpass any BMW super sedan. Hell a ES300 is a higher quality car than you M5 or Z8. Not saying their bad, I still like Bummers,oppps, Bimmers. One just gets tired of the same cheap black plastic and your 540 looking like your neighbors 3 series.
Now if you want to compare a 540 to a GS. I will happily ablidge you. In fact, if your in So Ca. I will DRIVE OUT TO YOU and we can take this where it counts, ON THE ROAD. Unless like most BMW owners I catch on the road, you squirm when a Lexus is next to you, that inferiority complex type of thing BMW owners go through. I went through it too when I had my Bummers, so it's ok.
So lets see how superior your car is. In fact, lets take it into the desert and race in the 120 degree weather and see how long it takes for your weather stripping to melt (and it does alot), and your head gasket to blow. Or your speedo needle to FALL OFF, or the AC to break-AGAIN.........
So the next time you see a GS across the intersection, look into yourself, feel those feelings your going through? That funny tingling in your tummy? THATS JEALOUSY buddy. Get used to it!
Besides, when was the last time someone even gazed at your car. I mean really looked at your car, not your wishful preception that their looking at your 3 series,ooops 5 series. Sorry pal, Lexus has alot more pinnache than BMW does.
So-you come here with NO ARGUMENTS, NO FACTS, just alot of blabber. Typical BMW owner.
Guess what??? You just got *****ED SLAPPED. MULTIPLE TIMES.
I can also do it on the road.
Last edited by whitediamond; 08-07-01 at 11:45 PM.
08-07-01, 11:37 PM
#12
Originally posted by AC's TL/540i
You know, I've been patient for quite a while. It bugs me that most of the people here think that the GS is a superior car than the 540i and the E430.
Bottom line, BMW and Mercedez OWNS the super sedan market. Frankly if Lexus came out with a M5 or E55 "fighter" their sales would not equal to the that of the true super sedans.
I admire that most of you aggressively pursue Lexus to do something. The fact is that Lexus is WAY far behing the Germans in the super sedan.
Going back to the GS being superior to the Germans, well, me personally don't think so and neither do ALL the car mags (in this case the experts).
Most of the people I spoke to that own the GS400/430 claim they bought the car cuz they wanted to immitate the 540's overall package but if they had more $ they would have bought the 540i. Let's face it, Lexus is CHASING BMW in the high performance sedan.
I know this is o Lexus forum and I truly admire the GS430, but I don't believe that most of you even drove the 540i yet say that the GS is better in this, that, etc. But the fact is BMW outsells Lexus in the V8 sedan market for a GOOD reason, most consumers must know which is the better sedan in their opinions. MT didn't rank the GS last for the hell of it. They drove all cars and put the GS last for a reason. Yes the GS has plenty of luxury but so does everyone else, who do you think started it all? Surely not Lexus, they were playing catchup and "let's copy" for only the last 11 years.
With all this said, flame away...
You know, I've been patient for quite a while. It bugs me that most of the people here think that the GS is a superior car than the 540i and the E430.
Bottom line, BMW and Mercedez OWNS the super sedan market. Frankly if Lexus came out with a M5 or E55 "fighter" their sales would not equal to the that of the true super sedans.
I admire that most of you aggressively pursue Lexus to do something. The fact is that Lexus is WAY far behing the Germans in the super sedan.
Going back to the GS being superior to the Germans, well, me personally don't think so and neither do ALL the car mags (in this case the experts).
Most of the people I spoke to that own the GS400/430 claim they bought the car cuz they wanted to immitate the 540's overall package but if they had more $ they would have bought the 540i. Let's face it, Lexus is CHASING BMW in the high performance sedan.
I know this is o Lexus forum and I truly admire the GS430, but I don't believe that most of you even drove the 540i yet say that the GS is better in this, that, etc. But the fact is BMW outsells Lexus in the V8 sedan market for a GOOD reason, most consumers must know which is the better sedan in their opinions. MT didn't rank the GS last for the hell of it. They drove all cars and put the GS last for a reason. Yes the GS has plenty of luxury but so does everyone else, who do you think started it all? Surely not Lexus, they were playing catchup and "let's copy" for only the last 11 years.
With all this said, flame away...
It bugs me that most of the people who doesn't belong here think that the 430i and the E430 are more superior than the GS430.
Bottom line, BMW and Mercedez DOESN'T OWN the super sedan market. Frankly if Lexus came out with a M5 or E55 "fighter" their sales might not equal to the that of the trying-to-be super sedans, because there are dumb mag "experts" out there like MT and RandD, and dumb consumers like someone who I won't put on the spot.
I admire that you aggressively pursue BMW to be the best or something. The fact is that BMW is WAY far from being the BEST sport sedan and some people just don't realize it. Do you? Where's YOUR FACTS? You gonna base your argument on someone else's testdrive? Why don't you setup a race session with one of our fellow GS430 owners and see for yourself? Just hope that you still have the face to go to a Lexus dealer for the trade-in.
Going back to the GS being superior to the Germans, well, me personally do think so and if the mags are experts then everyone who doesn't drive BMWs should die.
Most of the people I spoke to that own the GS400/430 claim they bought the car cuz they wanted to immitate the 540's overall package and didn't want to waste their money on some junk they have to take to the shop every other day. Let's face it, Lexus is AHEAD of BMW in the high performance sedan.
I know this is a Lexus forum and I truly admire the GS430, and I don't believe that all of ys even drove the 540i yet, but all the street races prove the fact. But the fact is BMW outsells Lexus in the V8 sedan market for a GOOD reason? then Camry, America's best selling sedan, is better than all of the cars in the US? Dumb~
Most consumers must know to not blindly follow that the magazines say. MT didn't rank the GS last for the hell of it, they got paid by BMW so much they couldn't rank it higher. They drove all cars and put the GS first but then looked at the paycheck from BMW and then placed the GS430 last. Yes the GS has plenty of luxury and so does everyone else, but Lexus doesn't have to worry about electrical problems or loose parts. Does it matter who started it all? Surely not Lexus, Japanese people knows how to re-invent things to correct the problems and flaws, unlike German companies that stick with the problems and flaws and made them HERITAGE
. And the game of "let's copy" continues with BMW stealing Altezza lights and slapping them on the new 3 compact. (btw that's a joke....... i mean the car is.)With all this flame said away...
08-08-01, 12:13 AM
#13
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First of all, we were being objective ever since we bring out the comparison of these two cars, but since most of the time the acceleration matters our point of view in this perticular arguement, thus we say GS430 is faster than 540i.
This is not a biased opinion but a simple fact.
If you wanna get technical with me about that, let's get it on. To talk realistically, Motortrend latest issue quoted 540i auto at 6.6, in what way could a 540 ever smoke a 400/430? I believe with your 6 speed it is a closer race, but yet 430 still remain superior in offline, your gotta to be a top sufficient driver to keep up with it, don't even think of passing it.
How do you know Lexus won't compete the new M5 or E55? the GS400 debut in the 98 has already accomplished more than its goal. How do you know about sales in the future when MB or BMW themselves aren' t sure about beating Lexus. Don't use your biased opinion over on the facts please. All the Lexus lines rite now has been proven successful among the competition, in what way and poing you have to support your argument?
Excuse me, why is it Way beyond the Germans? you know a Japanese Vertex edition GS 300 can spank your M5 or M whatever in any minute. the Lexus is fully capable of taking on your super seden whatever, GS400/430 against your 540 has been a proven deal.
Just because you have an overprised seden doesn't mean it is better. Oh, Talk about handling, compare to engine, 2kwould be more than enough to outhandle your BMW. The suspension mod is far easier compared to the Engine modification. Lexus has superior engine technology, the GS400/430 is way detuned to meet the ULEV standard while it still spanks your 540. Don't believe me? while your 540 performs sad gas consuming at 15~18, our 430 performs at 18~23. Talk about Technology, give me a break.
If you would take your biased head off and read the magazine again, it is not hard to find out what they have to turn down the GS430/400, let me quote one of the most frequent one, "We only wish the GS430 could come with better tires/wheels (almost all the GS430 has 17''s and they have to use 16''s during the test) , and would come with Sport package to improve the handling, (hm.. there is L-tuned being sold with the car, they act like it's not even there)." What do you say about that? The Car mag complains about GS's softness in handling while they have a stock GS and all others MB, BMW has sport suspensoin, package?
Hm.. I sure have money for a 540, but look at its interior? look at its crappy navigation? If you are happy about paying for an OVERPRISED car, that's your business. not me. don't give me chasing the crapz, show me the facts, or get off.
Whitediamons has already support my point in this, in what ways did your BMW outsells Lexus in V8 segment?
What take others 50 years to do, Lexus can complete in 12 years, not enough to impress your biased mind?
Sorry talking about Copy, look at your newly designed 318ti , what a crappy LEXUS IS immitation. do your own study, then start talking.
This is not a biased opinion but a simple fact.
If you wanna get technical with me about that, let's get it on. To talk realistically, Motortrend latest issue quoted 540i auto at 6.6, in what way could a 540 ever smoke a 400/430? I believe with your 6 speed it is a closer race, but yet 430 still remain superior in offline, your gotta to be a top sufficient driver to keep up with it, don't even think of passing it.
How do you know Lexus won't compete the new M5 or E55? the GS400 debut in the 98 has already accomplished more than its goal. How do you know about sales in the future when MB or BMW themselves aren' t sure about beating Lexus. Don't use your biased opinion over on the facts please. All the Lexus lines rite now has been proven successful among the competition, in what way and poing you have to support your argument?
Excuse me, why is it Way beyond the Germans? you know a Japanese Vertex edition GS 300 can spank your M5 or M whatever in any minute. the Lexus is fully capable of taking on your super seden whatever, GS400/430 against your 540 has been a proven deal.
Just because you have an overprised seden doesn't mean it is better. Oh, Talk about handling, compare to engine, 2kwould be more than enough to outhandle your BMW. The suspension mod is far easier compared to the Engine modification. Lexus has superior engine technology, the GS400/430 is way detuned to meet the ULEV standard while it still spanks your 540. Don't believe me? while your 540 performs sad gas consuming at 15~18, our 430 performs at 18~23. Talk about Technology, give me a break.
If you would take your biased head off and read the magazine again, it is not hard to find out what they have to turn down the GS430/400, let me quote one of the most frequent one, "We only wish the GS430 could come with better tires/wheels (almost all the GS430 has 17''s and they have to use 16''s during the test) , and would come with Sport package to improve the handling, (hm.. there is L-tuned being sold with the car, they act like it's not even there)." What do you say about that? The Car mag complains about GS's softness in handling while they have a stock GS and all others MB, BMW has sport suspensoin, package?
Hm.. I sure have money for a 540, but look at its interior? look at its crappy navigation? If you are happy about paying for an OVERPRISED car, that's your business. not me. don't give me chasing the crapz, show me the facts, or get off.
Whitediamons has already support my point in this, in what ways did your BMW outsells Lexus in V8 segment?
What take others 50 years to do, Lexus can complete in 12 years, not enough to impress your biased mind?
Sorry talking about Copy, look at your newly designed 318ti , what a crappy LEXUS IS immitation. do your own study, then start talking.
08-08-01, 02:31 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Hmm, Consumer Reports took polls to see how satisfied people were with their cars...here's what the list looked like for Luxury cars...
1) Lexus
2) Infiniti
3) Volvo
4) Sabb
5) BMW
6) Cadillac
7) Mercedes
Hmmm, #1 vs. #5...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
In reliability (all types)
1) Infiniti (by a very, very small margin)
2) Lexus
3) Acura
4) Honda
5) Toyota
6) Nissan
7) Subaru
8) Mazda
9) BMW
...
14) Volkswagen
18) Audi
20) Mercedes-Benz
Hmmm, looks like the Germans have something to learn there too...
1) Lexus
2) Infiniti
3) Volvo
4) Sabb
5) BMW
6) Cadillac
7) Mercedes
Hmmm, #1 vs. #5...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
In reliability (all types)
1) Infiniti (by a very, very small margin)
2) Lexus
3) Acura
4) Honda
5) Toyota
6) Nissan
7) Subaru
8) Mazda
9) BMW
...
14) Volkswagen
18) Audi
20) Mercedes-Benz
Hmmm, looks like the Germans have something to learn there too...