So whos getting the srt sc ?
08-29-01, 12:29 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: California
Posts: 1,139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by HKSpowerGS4
James (Ktrends),
Nice to see a fellow Ex-Supra owner on this forum. I myself had a single turbo 94 that put out 604rwhp. As Larry @ SP about it, he has seen the car a few times. I must agree with you on the turbocharger vs. supercharger issue. The reliablity and performance of a properly designed turbo kit is second to none. I deal with forced induction vehicles all the time and will have to admit, that through my experiences, I will also be turbochaged.
After I sold my Supra, I bought a 2000 GS400 and considered turbocharging it. Not that its not possible, I had sized the correct turbos for it and all, but for what fabrication was more than what I want to deal with at the time.
Ironically, I have sold the GS400 for a 98 GS300. I am currently working on turbocharging the stock 2JZGE motor for a realiable-daily driven 400 rwhp. A bolt on turbo kit should not be too far off as I will be working on the engine management aspect of it too (Fuel and Igntion Maps). So, for those othere GS300 owners, there is still hope for a Turbo kit
Will
James (Ktrends),
Nice to see a fellow Ex-Supra owner on this forum. I myself had a single turbo 94 that put out 604rwhp. As Larry @ SP about it, he has seen the car a few times. I must agree with you on the turbocharger vs. supercharger issue. The reliablity and performance of a properly designed turbo kit is second to none. I deal with forced induction vehicles all the time and will have to admit, that through my experiences, I will also be turbochaged.
After I sold my Supra, I bought a 2000 GS400 and considered turbocharging it. Not that its not possible, I had sized the correct turbos for it and all, but for what fabrication was more than what I want to deal with at the time.
Ironically, I have sold the GS400 for a 98 GS300. I am currently working on turbocharging the stock 2JZGE motor for a realiable-daily driven 400 rwhp. A bolt on turbo kit should not be too far off as I will be working on the engine management aspect of it too (Fuel and Igntion Maps). So, for those othere GS300 owners, there is still hope for a Turbo kit
Will
1) Turbos are more efficient since they are reusing some of the exhaust waste manufactured by the engine to drive the impeller blade while the SC relies solely on the engine crank.
2) SC adds another possible mechanical point of failure in that it needs a belt to drive the impeller blade.
3) SC comes in a variety of flavors some of which are clean (replaces the intake manifold and sits right on top of the heads) and others that have a similar install like a turbocharger (eg, Vortech).
4) SC's feel more like a big-block engine, turbos feel more like a jet thrust. In other words, more HP is available at lower RPM's with an SC as compared to a turbo.
5) I owned a 300ZXTT prior to the GS4. There is no substitue for that top end thrust on the freeway...It just seems that the power could go on and on and on and on....and boost can be controlled by an electronic boost control. Just dial in the boost you want and go. With an S/C if you want more boost, you have to change the belt. So, in that case you can customize the amount of boost you can allow in a turbo at each level of RPM's to create a nice curve. You cannot do the same with the S/C because the amount of boost is partially limited to the belt size. The advantages of a free-floating system versus a parasitic one.
Brent
Last edited by BLiu; 08-29-01 at 12:31 PM.
08-29-01, 01:48 PM
#32
Lexus Champion
I am HIGHLY sceptical (to the point of wagering 
) that the Lexus/Toyota V8 (any year, any application) would have forged pistons. I read the article but that is NOT convincing. Manufactures RARELY run forged pistons due to the increased piston to cylinder clearance required due to the denser metal of the forging expanding more when heated. This clearance usually produces a knocking sound when the engine is cold as the piston rocks back and forth and "slaps" against the cylinder wall. Even most factory turbo engines including the Buick GN's run hypereutectic cast pistons. The hyper piston offers very good durability and very close piston to bore clearance for a VERY quiet engine with VERY good ring control and VERY low blow by. If Toyota was going to run a forged piston it would definitely be in a turbo car. A luxury car would definitely get the hypers.
Forged crankshafts are rare but more likely than forged pistons. Forged rods are the norm and I SERIOUSLY doubt the Supra Turbo comes with cast rods. I cannot think of a single car engine made in the last 20 years that had cast rods.
Turbochargers are more powerful and less wear prone than superchargers HANDS down. I love superchargers and am very glad SRT has developed Lexus applications BUT it will NOT equal the power envelope of a turbo. I refer to a factory level turboengine. Aftermarket turbosystems may be as good or better but can also be MUCH worse. MANY variables. From the point of full boost availability (typically 3000rpm) a turbo makes MORE torque and power than a supercharger at the same boost. A centrifugal supercharger (such as the SRT, Vortech, ATI, Powerdyne, Paxton) does NOT reach full boost until redline. A positive displacement supercharger (Eaton, Roots, B&M, Wiend) make boost off idle and usually have full boost by 2000rpm (although a turbosystem can be designed to make full boost this low and even lower). The closest thing to a turbo in terms of accross the RPM power is a lysolm style positive displacement compressor (Whipple, Sprintex) but even these take more crank power than a turbo and therefore still loose to the turbo in power production. The turbo "free-wheels" over 90% of its life and sees virtually NO wear and tear during that time. A supercharger is ALLWAYS loading its bearings and in the case of PD types is always experiencing seal wear.
I will agree that it is almost always easier to install an aftermarket supercharger vs a turbo. And the Lexus V8 vehicles have VERY little space for packaging a well designed turbosystem. Until a turbosystem becomes available for comparison, the SRT blower is still the best power adder for a Lexus V8.
) that the Lexus/Toyota V8 (any year, any application) would have forged pistons. I read the article but that is NOT convincing. Manufactures RARELY run forged pistons due to the increased piston to cylinder clearance required due to the denser metal of the forging expanding more when heated. This clearance usually produces a knocking sound when the engine is cold as the piston rocks back and forth and "slaps" against the cylinder wall. Even most factory turbo engines including the Buick GN's run hypereutectic cast pistons. The hyper piston offers very good durability and very close piston to bore clearance for a VERY quiet engine with VERY good ring control and VERY low blow by. If Toyota was going to run a forged piston it would definitely be in a turbo car. A luxury car would definitely get the hypers. Forged crankshafts are rare but more likely than forged pistons. Forged rods are the norm and I SERIOUSLY doubt the Supra Turbo comes with cast rods. I cannot think of a single car engine made in the last 20 years that had cast rods.
Turbochargers are more powerful and less wear prone than superchargers HANDS down. I love superchargers and am very glad SRT has developed Lexus applications BUT it will NOT equal the power envelope of a turbo. I refer to a factory level turboengine. Aftermarket turbosystems may be as good or better but can also be MUCH worse. MANY variables. From the point of full boost availability (typically 3000rpm) a turbo makes MORE torque and power than a supercharger at the same boost. A centrifugal supercharger (such as the SRT, Vortech, ATI, Powerdyne, Paxton) does NOT reach full boost until redline. A positive displacement supercharger (Eaton, Roots, B&M, Wiend) make boost off idle and usually have full boost by 2000rpm (although a turbosystem can be designed to make full boost this low and even lower). The closest thing to a turbo in terms of accross the RPM power is a lysolm style positive displacement compressor (Whipple, Sprintex) but even these take more crank power than a turbo and therefore still loose to the turbo in power production. The turbo "free-wheels" over 90% of its life and sees virtually NO wear and tear during that time. A supercharger is ALLWAYS loading its bearings and in the case of PD types is always experiencing seal wear.
I will agree that it is almost always easier to install an aftermarket supercharger vs a turbo. And the Lexus V8 vehicles have VERY little space for packaging a well designed turbosystem. Until a turbosystem becomes available for comparison, the SRT blower is still the best power adder for a Lexus V8.
Last edited by JBrady; 08-29-01 at 01:52 PM.
08-30-01, 01:33 AM
#33
Driver
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: So. California
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Richie,
Its hard to really say right now about how much a good kit will cost. I am still working on all the possible variables and aspects what will need to be addressed, such as fuel delivery capabilites of the stock system and so forth. The physical turbocharger, manifold, wastegate, intercooler and piping is the bulk of the equipment and can be obtained from at a decent pricing to expensive depending on how extravagent one may get. A complete turbo kit in general, lets use the supra single turbo upgrade example, will go for about 5000-6000. Thats a very very complete high 600 horsepower kit. Scale it down a bit for reduced overall hp and better turbo response, say 400ish, and the pricing can be lower. The next thing that should be addresses is the fuel system. I will have more info on that soon...
Will
Its hard to really say right now about how much a good kit will cost. I am still working on all the possible variables and aspects what will need to be addressed, such as fuel delivery capabilites of the stock system and so forth. The physical turbocharger, manifold, wastegate, intercooler and piping is the bulk of the equipment and can be obtained from at a decent pricing to expensive depending on how extravagent one may get. A complete turbo kit in general, lets use the supra single turbo upgrade example, will go for about 5000-6000. Thats a very very complete high 600 horsepower kit. Scale it down a bit for reduced overall hp and better turbo response, say 400ish, and the pricing can be lower. The next thing that should be addresses is the fuel system. I will have more info on that soon...
Will
08-30-01, 01:42 AM
#34
Originally posted by HKSpowerGS4
A complete turbo kit in general, lets use the supra single turbo upgrade example, will go for about 5000-6000. Thats a very very complete high 600 horsepower kit. Scale it down a bit for reduced overall hp and better turbo response, say 400ish, and the pricing can be lower.
A complete turbo kit in general, lets use the supra single turbo upgrade example, will go for about 5000-6000. Thats a very very complete high 600 horsepower kit. Scale it down a bit for reduced overall hp and better turbo response, say 400ish, and the pricing can be lower.
What I'm saying is, the bolt-on turbo kit should be alot more expensive than the Supra single upgrade right.?
08-30-01, 10:14 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Thanks Will
You seem to know your stuff!!!
Will, could you keep us posted on your findings?
When I get my GS I would like to go the Forced Induction route so all information will be greatly appreciated.
Richie
Will, could you keep us posted on your findings?
When I get my GS I would like to go the Forced Induction route so all information will be greatly appreciated.
Richie
08-31-01, 11:19 AM
#36
Driver
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: So. California
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for the late reply guys...I've been really busy at work...
GlobeCLK,
You are kind of right that a bolt on kit requires more than a "basic" turbo upgrade. Say for example a car that is turbocharged with one stock single turbo (MR2 Turbo), a turbo upgrade can just be one that replaces the turbo only and bolts on to the stock manifold, BUT there are kits that not only replace the turbo, but also the manifold, wastegate, oil lines , etc... - which is the type of single turbo upgrade that I was referring to.
For the one that I install on my Supra TT, the single turbo conversion replaces everything from the from the manifold to the oil and water lines.
You are right that it it may cost a little more than for factory turbocharged car because you will more than likely need an intercooler.
I can elaborate more later today....
Richie,
I will keep you informed as I progess with the project.
Will
GlobeCLK,
You are kind of right that a bolt on kit requires more than a "basic" turbo upgrade. Say for example a car that is turbocharged with one stock single turbo (MR2 Turbo), a turbo upgrade can just be one that replaces the turbo only and bolts on to the stock manifold, BUT there are kits that not only replace the turbo, but also the manifold, wastegate, oil lines , etc... - which is the type of single turbo upgrade that I was referring to.
For the one that I install on my Supra TT, the single turbo conversion replaces everything from the from the manifold to the oil and water lines.
You are right that it it may cost a little more than for factory turbocharged car because you will more than likely need an intercooler.
I can elaborate more later today....
Richie,
I will keep you informed as I progess with the project.
Will
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
