///MDex

I would venture a guess that the only way to get this taken care of at the dealership level is to write all of our dealership letters about the issue, confront eh service managers, and let then know that apparently it is a widespread issue.

They probaly know it (they can look at nationwide service records, but figure keeping us in the dark will keep $ in their pockets instead of in TSB labor time.

ALSO, we could start a letter writing campaign to Lexus / Toyota of US.

Getting up the chain, and a lot of owners doing so, is about the only way to really get some steam behind the cause, and get it taken care of.

My .02

TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

I believe Dexter has the right answer. If you think about it, Lexus prides itself with the current and previous awards in #1 customer satisfaction by J.D. Powers and I'm sure they want to keep it that way!

ThemisN

one problem with the theory that there are records of this issue....

i sincerely doubt there are significant issues of this type documented, due to the fact that most dealers never do anything about it to begin wiht...they tell u straight off that it was our problem in some way.

///MDex

My theory was that everytime you mention to a service rep that you want something looked at, like, 'my car pulls to theleft' they type it on the original service documnetation, like 'customer states that car pulls to the left - inspect'

That kind of thing, you know? That data is warehoused. That's all.

drmanny3

The latest saga in the alignment problem. After Firestone I took the car into Lexus. By now the shop supervisor was pissed off. He wanted to charge me for the alignment. Anyway they realigned the car. The service technician noted on the paperwork that stays with the workorder (you don't get a copy of it unless you ask) he again wrote that he had to rebend the metal to insure that the rear toe eccentric would make contact. He stated that it may not be repairable again. They aligned the car to spec. I compared to what was done at Firestone. There were some differences. I noted that firestone had shown that my front caster was out of spec. Several other non lexus shops had shown the same information about caster. It is not adjustable and apparently does not affect the car that much. The lexus shop showed that it was in spec. I took the car to another lexus dealer in Ventura, CA. They only charge 117.00 while Tustin Lexus charges 160.00. This guy did not know about the previous alignment. I told him it was lowered by about 1 inch. He personally said he would align the car. He mentioned that once lowered you need to set the car not to the center of the original spec but to a value that will reduce tire wear. His before measurements were different from Tustin (We are talking about 150 miles inbetween the two dealers). Anyway his alignment machine showed that my caster was out of spec whereas Tustin did not. He changed principly the right side of my car and left the driver side pretty much alone. I feel better about his expertise than that of the Tustin shop. The ventura shop shares their bay area with the next door toyota shop. Since the alignment I am closely monitoring the tires to see if I can find wear before it causes too much trouble. I contacted Hunter the manufacturer of the alignment equipment and asked about how often they recommend alignment equip be calibrated. He was evasive in his answer. I am a trainer/consultant professionally and spend most of my time working with manufacturers. In aerospace, or for that matter in any manufacturing environment you are often required by ISO9000 or Best Practices to maintain equipment calibration. You cannot wait until something breaks to fix it. I am sure that the toyota production system follows that rule as well. I wonder how the dealerships got past that. As an example calibrate your torque wrench, calibrate your electronic analyzer, ecetera. I like the idea of doing a writing campaign.

ThemisN

Being a consultant myself, I have the following view on ISO.....In my personal view, it essentially only enforces an environment of documentation...a lot of documentation. It doesn't necessarily mean that they have to do something about an "error"...now I dont think this could go long while being ignored and trying to stay ISO-certified, but it can happen.

In any case, it does seem odd that they would not clarify suggested calibration intervals, but they cannot force people who have bought this equipment to do so...or at least I dont think so.

I am loving seeing all this come together with some actual documentation...maybe we can put together a case to get something back in order for us to shut up.

TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

Glad to see we are all still very much envolved in some sort of resolution to such a potentially expensive and frustrating issue or should I say problem! Since I recently put my factory 17's back on less than 3 weeks ago at which time I received an allignment, I have nothing to report. But as many of you know, my 19x8 & 19 & 9 setup is a week away and I am carefully monitoring you guys input as well as speaking with several local aftermarket & performance shops concerning this issue. Stay tuned............

fierce gs

yeah...getting money to shut up sounds good =)

so where do we start..lol

SCV8

What if this was normal?
Can anyone imagine that a car company has carefully set-up a car to handle well at higher speeds(more caster),and that other car's (Mercedes for one)tires may wear in the exact same manner?
The NSX is/was a very nice handling,predictable car;this comes at a price that no one could seem to accept,so owners then blamed the manufacturer,who,instead of totally compromising the handling of the car,also gave up some tires to help the problem.There are other mid-engined cars out there,and they do in fact wear the rear tires twice as fast as the fronts,could even do it in a day if you tried.
I would never say"stop trying" to fix a problem,but there are going to be compromises in any situation.
Maybe to find some reasonably priced tires?

ThemisN

hahaha...maybe in my next lifetime, certainly not this one. Every tire that I have trust in being able to handle stressful situations through corners, etc. are certainly not cheap. I trust them more than something that lexus may have done to make up for the garbage tires they had on the car stock. With better performance tires, I'll take my chances with them being aligned and not wearing as hard...but the car has to be able to stay that way...there is something seriously wrong when a setting cannot stay there long, on [purpose or not.

nanotech

iTrader: (2)

I don't know if you guys know about my vibration problem.

Basically, this is what it is:

1. Steering wheel and entire car actually (especially rear) vibrates from speeds of 65 to 85mph.

2. Lexus dealer said my tires have uneven wear on them.

3. When I brake sometimes it makes a little noise, I think its just the tires (S02 pole positions), but maybe rotors? And its not them being wet because that's a whole different noise and ofcourse that noise goes away when it dries up. The noise I am talking about is different, its like a growl when I am slowing down.

4. Just regular noise at all speeds coming from tires, I think its kind of like the same noise that I hear when I am slowing down but it is more apparent when slowing down cause I am not using the accelerator so the engine noise is at its lowest and all i hear is tire noise.

5. Sears guy says I need to get my tires aligned.

Now, I think to solve all these problems at once, this is what I would have to do:

1. Get low noise tires like the Yokohoma AVS dB.
2. Get Steve's TRD brake pads & rotors package.
3. Get my castors and all fixed and all four tires aligned using one of those high-tech alignment machines you guys talk about.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

By the way, I think there is a TSB on the vibrating problem.

SCV8

Every time I've checked the balance on my wheels after mounting new tires,it's changed after a week or so;seems that the newly mounted tires need to settle in.Not that you should drive around for a week on un-balanced tires,but it's good to re-check since most tires are pretty expensive.
I have a set of Khumos,and Borbet wheels(17X8,9.5) coming soon,the whole package was around $900 from a mail order place.Hopefully I won't have any excessive wear problems.
Another SC guy mentioned that his front control arm bushings may be causing some wear under braking situations.I don't like large rubber bushings anyways,so I was thinking of making some UHMW(plastic)bushings to replace my creaking rubber ones.
If braking conditions were the source of the wear,then maybe less camber,and more caster would be the way to go.Braking would also be improved,since you'd then be getting a better contact patch.

drmanny3

I have been told and do believe that when you have new tires mounted and balanced that often in the process they place a soapy solution on the tire bead to allow the tire to fit on the rim. When you first start driving if you take off hard or brake hard I believe that the tire can move slightly on the rim. I have not been told how long to wait. However, I would imagine that after 24 or 48 hours the tires should be fairly tight on the rim.

With respect to balance. I have the factory chrome 17s and have experienced problems in getting them balanced. What I have tried to do is have hammer on weights on the inside that doesn't show and then stick on weights as close to the outside as possible. I would use hammer on weights on the outside but my rim lip is too thin (from polishing and chrome?). Anyway that is how I have gotten a pretty good balance.

If you want to save some money take your tires to Costco. For about 8 bucks they will balance and rotate them for life!! They use the same equipment that anyone else uses. Also I typically purchase my tires through Tire Rack.com and take them into Costco and have them mounted and balanced for about 36 bucks.

TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

Well guys, I'm very happy to report that after going in for an allignment on my newly installed 19x8 & 19x9's, I was only like 2 points (I think that's the right term or 2/10 ths) off and that was on the right rear only! As many of you know, when I pulled my 18's off and put my factory 17's back on, the 18's had considerable inside wear due to my front allignment being waaaaay off! But I wasn't 100% convinced that all that wear was just due to allignment. So yesterday when they pulled off my 17's (245/45/17 Nitto NT555) the insides looked awesome after about ohh 2 months & 2,200 miles. And with 3 out of 4 wheels being right in the middle of spec including the front two, it's obvious the allignment is holding up well. But as I stated before, no more ************ around for me, I will have my new setup balanced and alligned every 3,000 miles! I would HIGHLY RECCOMMEND you guys investing in a lifetime balancing and allignment deal, it's Well Worth It!

SCV8

If the cams on the suspension that are used to adjust camber are similar to the SC/Supra ones,then they need to be real tight I've just heard;166Ft/lb front,and 136ft/lb rear,again,this is only if they're like the other cars,where this has been a problem.
I've had two flats in the last month,all while the Lex is in the bodyshop,so Iget to feel what a flat is like in a loaner car,better than in my car I guess but still...